No Joke - RAW 4K on the 5D Mark III

[Hans Punk]

42 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Ah makes sense, thanks

Are people seeing much benefit going from a 1000x card to the newer faster ones, in terms of reliability? The komputerbay cards sometimes bog down at the start of a shot.

Im currently getting 3440x1288 @ 2.67:1 aspect continuous recording at ISO 800 on a 1066x Komputerbay card. EDIT: Sometimes it gives me continuous status, which makes me think other factors are effecting compression value (or simply just an incorrect MB/s etimate?) EDIT EDIT: seems my 3400x1288 was on condition of simplistic detail in scene...as soon as pointed the camera at something with detail the estimated MB/s was 150MB/s...hmm.

 I've not recorded longer than 1min yet to check on the high res settings. I'm looking forward to testing properly this weekend...but am pretty confident in knowing that the current choppy live view will be improved at some point so might save a proper test when I can properly see what I'm shooting

[squig]

5 minutes ago, mercer said:

So is this something you can utilize for your feature? If so, how will you handle synching your audio without the sound... I guess just visual cues from a slate... or does ML have a timecode feature?

Yeah if a1ex gets the live view sorted out. Pixel binned 1080p is a little softer than I'd like. 2.7K gives a little bit of wiggle room for the softness of the Iscoramas, and for denoising. Also the crop means I can shoot the low light stuff at lower ISOs, which is cool. I've already got my eye on that new Sigma 14mm f/1.8; that plus a Sigma 18-35mm will cover the wide end nicely. Audio's no problem, I've got a clapper board, and I dual system record anyway. Plus ML can beep at the start of a recording. I think ML will incorporate audio in time, I've just asked about whether they can include card spanning into the build, that would give us another 20MB/s to an SD card

[mercer]

Downgrading firmware to 1.1.3 as I type...

Seriously, this is probably the most excited I've been for a camera since I bought my first DSLR back in 2011. I guess in a way it's fitting they're both Canons.

I can't wait to feel proficient enough to test the 3K/4K Raw.

[independent]

How does the quality compare to Blackmagic's raw, 12-bit CinemaDNG RAW (4000x2160) ?

[webrunner5]

19 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

Did I mention that holding half shutter while recording helps if the preview is slipping into grayscale? Squig, that's another advantage of keeping it at 2.7k - preview is smoother. If your delivery is 2048 x 858 then shooting resolution doesn't matter above, ooh let's say, 2.3k just to knock off that debayer softness... other than crop factor if course.

FWIW I saw an amazing short recently with a very unusual aspect ratio:

Pretty sure this ultra ultra scope ratio is achievable in 3.8k on the 5D3 now.

Wow, that is some just beautiful footage. Jesus that was good.

[hyalinejim]

3 hours ago, independent said:

How does the quality compare to Blackmagic's raw, 12-bit CinemaDNG RAW (4000x2160) ?

Here's what we know so far about high resolution RAW recording on the 5D3.

Technical stuff:
Maximum horizontal resolution for continuous 2.39:1 recording = around 3.3k
This is only achievable at ISO 100. If you need to raise ISO, you need to lower the resolution (I can get continuous 16:9 at 2.4k for ISO 3200)
The 5D3 has around 11.5 stops of dynamic range and a moderate rolling shutter
It has lovely colour

Practical stuff:
The preview has a very low refresh rate when recording, and is mostly low resolution, and greyscale - so it's hard to see what you're doing.
There's no sound

As squig mentioned earlier, if you want to see what it looks like, take a 3.3k crop out of a 5D3 still. I also posted a link to DNGs some pages back.
 

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

Wow, that is some just beautiful footage. Jesus that was good.

The short in full is an incredible piece of work. If anyone has a chance to check it out at their local festival this year I'd highly recommend it.

[independent]

I guess I'm trying to see the upside of it, since one could get raw from blackmagic without so much hassle, for not so more money (especially the 2.5K). If one already has a 5D III, completely makes sense. 

[jpfilmz]

11 minutes ago, independent said:

I guess I'm trying to see the upside of it, since one could get raw from blackmagic without so much hassle, for not so more money (especially the 2.5K). If one already has a 5D III, completely makes sense. 

No moiré patterns, better low light performance, more camera shooting agility than the Blackmagic cinema cameras, and the ability to record to CF cards with possibly smaller files with 14-bit lossless compression.  Once they fix optimize the live preview for the 2k-3k resolution ranges and implement mlv audio,  i'm probably going to make that my primary narrative capture format.

[squig]

11 hours ago, cpc said:

The idea is that a 3x3 binned image draws from 3*3*1920*1080 photosites (if it is true binning), whereas a 2.7k image (say, 2700*1520, can't remember the exact resolution) would be based on ~4.25 times less photosites, which should affect SNR significantly. But yes, if you are consistently going to shoot 2 stops lower ISO sensitivity, it should be fine.

I did some tests: I shot standard 1080p raw vs 2.8K raw at the same ISO and aperture, taking a few steps to get close to the same framing; the 1:1 2.8K crop appears to be about half a stop brighter than the 3x3 binned 1080p. Somebody else might wanna test that to confirm.

[independent]

Low light? Can somebody post a high ISO / low light still or video? Aside from the resolution penalty (who cares), I'd like to see what the noise patterns are like. 

[squig]

1 hour ago, independent said:

Low light? Can somebody post a high ISO / low light still or video? Aside from the resolution penalty (who cares), I'd like to see what the noise patterns are like. 

Focus is a bit off, but this is 3K scaled down to 2K @ 1600 ISO. If you wanna know what the noise pattern looks like just look at any raw 5D MK3 photo. Things tend to get pretty noisy about 1600 ISO, that's where the digital gain kicks in, but with the right exposure up to 6400 ISO is doable.

[hmcindie]

3 hours ago, squig said:

Focus is a bit off, but this is 3K scaled down to 2K @ 1600 ISO. If you wanna know what the noise pattern looks like just look at any raw 5D MK3 photo. Things tend to get pretty noisy about 1600 ISO, that's where the digital gain kicks in, but with the right exposure up to 6400 ISO is doable.

It's after ISO 3200 when it goes digital.

[hmcindie]

 

13 hours ago, independent said:

I guess I'm trying to see the upside of it, since one could get raw from blackmagic without so much hassle, for not so more money (especially the 2.5K). If one already has a 5D III, completely makes sense. 

Upsides

- full frame RAW (how many cameras can offer this?)

- great look

- no moire (the bm 2.5k does some moire occasionally)

Downsides

- hassle - Though theres only one extra step compared to the BM 2.5k raw and that's the conversion to dng. Usability of the 5d is many times better than the bm 2.5k.

[SigurdW]

Have been curiously n00bing with the experimental builds the last few days and still trying to get my head around the actual crop factors as RAW video displays 1.00x, no matter what I change in the Crop mode module. Judged by the suffering live view there is a difference, but I might be wrong.

Will the crop factor change accordingly to the resolutions or is it constant ≈1.6x from 1920 up to >3k?

(Btw, if there is any magic lantern moderators here, I would have loved to get my account approved :D)


Can not express how much I look forward to the day its included in the nightly builds!

Cheers

[squig]

16 minutes ago, SigurdW said:

Have been curiously n00bing with the experimental builds the last few days and still trying to get my head around the actual crop factors as RAW video displays 1.00x, no matter what I change in the Crop mode module. Judged by the suffering live view there is a difference, but I might be wrong.

Will the crop factor change accordingly to the resolutions or is it constant ≈1.6x from 1920 up to >3k?

(Btw, if there is any magic lantern moderators here, I would have loved to get my account approved :D)


Can not express how much I look forward to the day its included in the nightly builds!

Cheers

The crop factor reduces as you increase the resolution. Select 3x crop. Click the trash button to get out of the ML menu. Click it again to get back into the menu. Go into the raw video menu. Select aspect ratio. Use the joystick thingy to scale up the resolution. You'll see the crop factor when you click out of the aspect ratio screen.

[tweak]

1 hour ago, hmcindie said:

 

- hassle - Though theres only one extra step compared to the BM 2.5k raw and that's the conversion to dng. 

The amount of people who say something like this is surprising. Have you used MLVFS? 

[Ray]

Is It possible 2K-2.5K RAW video with DualISO at 48p?

[hijodeibn]

On 4 de abril de 2017 at 2:31 PM, mercer said:

Downgrading firmware to 1.1.3 as I type...

Seriously, this is probably the most excited I've been for a camera since I bought my first DSLR back in 2011. I guess in a way it's fitting they're both Canons.

I can't wait to feel proficient enough to test the 3K/4K Raw.

I can´t wait to see your tests @mercer, and also your opinion about the post-process, like you I used to own a 50d for a few weeks, but like someone previously said, to work with ML files was hell on earth, and since the camera was not able to delivery HD I moved in other direction, but now I am ready to try again, 4k is so tempting, I can buy a 5dmkiii today very cheap, and the only reason I am not doing it is because of the 5dmkiv next upgrade……oh Gosh…so many good options today, the DPAF is really a break dealer for me, something I would like to have in all my cameras, anyway, I will wait until the upgrade is realized then make a decision….

[mercer]

39 minutes ago, hijodeibn said:

I can´t wait to see your tests @mercer, and also your opinion about the post-process, like you I used to own a 50d for a few weeks, but like someone previously said, to work with ML files was hell on earth, and since the camera was not able to delivery HD I moved in other direction, but now I am ready to try again, 4k is so tempting, I can buy a 5dmkiii today very cheap, and the only reason I am not doing it is because of the 5dmkiv next upgrade……oh Gosh…so many good options today, the DPAF is really a break dealer for me, something I would like to have in all my cameras, anyway, I will wait until the upgrade is realized then make a decision….

So far, soo awesome. Sure there's a learning curve, but it really is no big deal once you get used to the workflow. Here's a screengrab from my very first shot with it...

[mercer]

And another...