Apple talk dramatic 2018 Mac Pro update amidst multiple controversies

[Cassius McGowan]

7 minutes ago, OliKMIA said:

I've been a PC guy all my life, just happened like that, like starting with Canon or Nikon. I have zero brand fetishism or preference. I'll switch to Linux or Mac as soon as I see any advantage but right now the Mac computer are just too expensive for the specs.
At home my girlfriend recently bought one of their latest laptop and Iphone and every-time she needs to do something beyond internet browsing she calls me to rescue her:

- Want to install some "exotic" software, NOPE, it doesn't work on Mac

- Want to watch a movie via the Laptop HDMI, of course there is no HDMI out on the Mac laptop

- Want to plug anything in general ? NOPE, there is very little connectivity and the removal of the 3.5mm is utterly stupid IMHO. Just another excuse to sell you overpriced accessories. Plus, I hate the wireless accessories, it always runs out of battery when you need it the most.

- Need a basic apple cable ? You must buy the dedicated Apple cable for $29 or it won't work properly.

As for Apple and ethic, they are no better or worst than all the other silicon valley hipster companies. They are here to do business. They are not cool or evil, just protecting their own interest. Fighting Trump immigration policy when it's bad for their HR strategy but they haven't said anything about the new FCC policy change regarding selling the internet history...

 

Sorry the 2016 version has nothing but the usb-c inputs but I have the 2015 that has all the inputs lol. And what "exotic" software that you speak of? You have a buy a dongle if you want to do anything on the 2016 version. That's why I didn't upgrade to the 2016 version. 

[longbow]

8 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

As an all around creative, I find the new macbook to be great. I downgraded from the Mac Pro 2013 (fully spec'd) to the 15" Macbook (fully spec'd)... I can design huge print files in Photoshop, massive UI/UX artboards in Sketch, edit 4K video in Premiere, create complex VFX in After Effects, create 60+ track audio in Reason... I'm struggling to find an example of where the machine chokes and i'm really putting it through it's paces on a day to day basis. The only time I move over to a PC is when we are testing VR stuff on the Vive.

Sure, fair comment - I'm not trying to say its a bad machine but it's also a balance of usability / cost. When I specc'ed one up (16gb ram, 1tb drive, slightly better processor and video) I think I was looking at something a bit north of £3,000.

[webrunner5]

Well I have been a pretty hard core gamer most of my life, and Apple computers just suck donkey, you know what, for doing gaming.

I have owned several desktop and laptop Apple computers. They are, were beautiful looking machines. But they always lacked the HP that "I" needed. But for a foolproof, even your mom can operate it, I will give that to Apple. But do I want to buy one now? No way in hell.

And Apple is just a damn whore for the iTunes, apps part of it. They try to get every damn penny they can out of you. And their stupid ass sign in shit every time you do anything is, well is A Pain in the ASS. And my iPhone has a damn update every week. Get your shit together to start with, not  use us as a Ginny Pig.

[Jimmy]

5 minutes ago, longbow said:

Sure, fair comment - I'm not trying to say its a bad machine but it's also a balance of usability / cost. When I specc'ed one up (16gb ram, 1tb drive, slightly better processor and video) I think I was looking at something a bit north of £3,000.

Yea, no denying the price...  To use a camera metaphor, I'd equate a Mac to something like a Canon C300.... On paper, it seems a rip off and can be limited, but I just know I can get shit done on it with minimal headaches.

I use PC too though, as long as you keep on top of your file system and applications, it is pretty stress free too (though I hate using my Microsoft surafce with a passion!)

[webrunner5]

Some new goodies from Apple for the amazingly low price of!!

http://www.redsharknews.com/technology/item/4487-apple-is-planning-a-brand-new,-modular-mac-pro

[zetty]

2 hours ago, wolf33d said:

Interesting. I use mac at home and PC at work. I can't believe the number of people still using PCs these days. The Mac OS is so much better, the integration with the hardware is in another league, the global experience (speed, bugs, viruses..) is a million time better. 

I would not get a PC even if it was the same specs for 10 times less money. The fact is when you want to buy a real equivalent pc (for exemple a PC that copies the MacBook Air, same aluminium, same battery life of 15h, ...) it's the same price yet the value goes down a lot more. What a joke....

Those are some loud words. I generally find MacOS and many of its structural implementations retarded and counterintuitive. Especially when it comes to system configuration and file management (which are some of the primary OS functions) -- I find Windows so much more streamlined, efficient and nuanced. And coming from Amiga before this, I hated Microsoft and Windows and wanted to like Apple/Mac (mid-nineties, around System 7/Windows 95 time). Both were lousy at the time but I found Windows to be more flexible and everything changed with the release of XP, from then on I have never had a reason to look back.

The whole stability thing is a myth -- in the older times, both systems were crashing like crazy (and MacOS even didn't have task manager long since Windows already had it), and nowadays, from Windows 7 on, it's been perfectly stable. My uptime is weeks at a time and the only thing that ever crashes is Firefox when they're on a lousy build. While I have no reason to not believe people when they say they have had more problems with PC and coming to Mac has been liberating, there is no such thing in my experience. Neither I have had virus for at least a decade -- and I don't even have an antivirus program installed other than the built in Windows Defender. So I tend to think it's those users who are the problem rather than the perceived OS inferiority.

Of course, I am saying all this from a perspective of Windows user (although I am still forced to use MacOS now and then for work -- and asked to troubleshoot theirs by friends haha) and I respect everyone's choice of whatever works best for them. But the high-horse attitude of people like Wolf33d can really trip me off

BTW, writing this on a 2012 Sony Vaio machine which has seen upgrade (not a clean install) from Windows 7 to Windows 8 to Windows 8.1 to Windows 10 with no stability issues whatsoever and all drivers and software functioning perfectly.

I'd love to have a productivity battle including different tasks between myself and an expert MacOS user -- confident I'd win cause the Mac users only think it's so efficient and effective cause they don't know any better..

[wolf33d]

2 hours ago, Phil A said:

@wolf33d Different strokes for different folks. I really couldn't get into Mac OS, my girlfriend has a MacBook Pro and I loathe using it. I'm a windows man through and through.

You just do it wrong. 

I was using windows only before. I remember when using a Mac at a friend place each time I would think what a shitty ergonomic it was. One they I made the step for some reasons and once used to the system, impossible to go back.

You don't like Mac OS cause you are too used about bulshit windows reflexes and using the computer of someone else. Get yourself a new Mac, configure it to your taste, take the time to learn the logic of the system, and never go back. Using your girlfriend thing while having no clue how to properly use it can only bring frustration.

 

A side funny note:

5 family members, 2 friends and my girlfriend are 8 people who only have ever used windows. I spent years being the "it guy" who would always be there to trouble shoot there bugs and problems. Since 1-2 years every one of them is now on Mac only. It was a big headache for each of them for the first 2 weeks of having a new machine and me explaining but since then I never ever had anymore to take my phone and troubleshoot anything. 

Windows is a pure pain in the ass at work on my PC and my coworkers PCs. Mac just works, and does thing well. 

Before any one comes in the debate and tell me a Pc is better, he needs to own both. I have been for years on tons of different PC, currently owning one. And I have got Macs for the past 7 years too. So I can properly compare and not just say I was frustrated testing my GF computer.

[Cinegain]

No hate against Apple here, but I just don't see the point for myself. For others, yeah, it's a nice minimalistic hip approach to hardware/software and people from all walks of life would instantly be able to use one, because it's so intuitive. Creative people have more capacity for their art, because they've kept things simple and well integrated. If you don't do much more than reading e-mails, browsing the web and use Final Cut Pro, then, what else do you even need? The integration of devices within the eco system is pretty awesome.

But... I've been messing around with computers since forever. We had computers with screens that weren't black 'n white, they were black and green. They'd take these huge ass flopping around floppy disks that made crazy sounds when reading/writing. Our operating was just DOS you know. Windows 3.11 was breathtaking and I've seen everything from Windows 95 through Windows 10 Pro. Every now and then someone ditched a computer and I took the best parts out of 'em and put 'em together in one system. I'd gotten used to stuff needing a bit of knowledge and experience. But... you'd end up with something where you'd exactly know what's what. Same with Android smartphones and tablets, although that turned more to the software side of things (but also I have no problem changing a little circuit board with a messed-up microUSB-port that's not willing to charge the battery anymore, or switching out a cracked display), I used to run roots, recoveries, ports, decompile shit, flash it. Though, in all honesty, I'm glad we're now seeing OTA just about everywhere, because I just can't be arsed anymore. On the hardware side, you can get anything from dualSIM to expandable storage and IR blasters on 'em though.

Windows 10, it actually works really well for me and it gives me the freedom to indeed have options... on the hardware part: what kind of display do you want? Glossy? Matte? Touchscreen? FHD? QHD? What's the design supposed to look like? Do you want an optical drive? What connectivity do you prefer? And what is all of that allowed to cost? You get a sick Intel i7 core processor and Nvidia graphics card in systems that are super fair about the price. Then the options regarding software... I indeed get to run my more exotic programs... play games (though, I used to be able to find more time to actually play some, don't get to do much gaming these days) and just the whole freedom of how you want to use your computer and what the interface is like as well. Same with Android though, that might be too much choice for people, they don't like to occupy themselves with that kind of nonsense as their time is better spent. For people with a Windows background, there's nothing to get used to, they're fine with it and as one of those folks... I really don't want things pre-chewed and spoonfed to me. I like the messing about, options and control and wouldn't really have it any other way.

Then there's just the whole elitist/status that goes with Apple. I'm a practical kinda guy and I value value. So it just has to work and work well (for me). But a lot with Apple is spend solely on the name alone. You won't see me sitting in a Starbucks with a Macbook in front of me on the table. It's like a lifestyle accessory. Like a fancy watch (although, I kinda like watches, though I don't really see the practical value of a really really expensive one), or for girls: a Gucci hand bag or whatevz. So, I'll admit 'you know what, that looks quite nice', but I really am not getting urge to get one. But you know. It's cool that we're all different. Would be a boring place if we all had the same taste and opinion. Like, Apple people probably like the Bugatti Chiron... I'd rather get something more fun and less yacht like, like I don't know, a Koenigsegg Regera or something. Or that NIO (NextEV) EP9, now that's something else!

Anyways. Mac VS PC... you just do you. Just for the Mac users, I do hope that they'll get more PC-like freedom, power and value. Everything else... whatever works, works!

[zetty]

33 minutes ago, wolf33d said:

Before any one comes in the debate and tell me a Pc is better, he needs to own both. I have been for years on tons of different PC, currently owning one. And I have got Macs for the past 7 years too. So I can properly compare and not just say I was frustrated testing my GF computer.

Why should I, if I am loving the experience and have absolutely no frustration with it?

You are so blinded by your own experience, the view your are preaching is extremely narrow minded. If that's what MacOS does to people then no thanks, for that reason alone :D

There is no one-size-fits-all solution when it comes to something as sophisticated as OS.

[silvertonesx24]

MacOS is cleaner and nicer looking.

PC runs circles around the latest professional Macs. And by latest I mean "late 2013" almost 4 years old, for $3999+

My i7-7700k stitches 8K VR footage at 6-7fps while the $4k trash can putts along at 1fps. I don't have time to look at how pretty the OS is, I need to get things done. And PC does that now.

Plus if you depend on CUDA, good luck getting any decent nvidia card to work with Mac without hacks and bugs and drivers if they are even provided at all. Forget using any of those shiny new 1080 cards

2 hours ago, docmoore said:

 

Every time there is a system update I have to put an older video card with Mac BIOS

in just to configure it with a new nVidia driver.

 

 

This part here is the second most annoying thing about computers for production. Mac Pro 5,1 and Nvidia cards just don't play nicely together.

The first being programs that render with about 15% of total CPU power. 12 cores, and 11 sit idle while AE plows through a 6 hour render.

[fuzzynormal]

2 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

every damn penny...stupid ass sign in shit...A Pain in the ASS...damn update every week. Get your shit together to start with...

As an official grumpy old man, I support this grumpy man rant.

[Jaime Valles]

I was a die-hard professional Mac user for about 13 years. In 2015 I couldn't take the lack of proper video-editing hardware and finally switched to Windows. Best thing my business ever did.

[webrunner5]

40 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

As an official grumpy old man, I support this grumpy man rant.

LMAO. Well I like to build my Own computers, I have for at least the last 25 years or more, and there is just very little gaming software for a Apple. But they make some damn good machines. But I just can't, well won't pay, nearly double the price for so damn many limitations.

Now their monitors, well those are nice. And like I said they make beautiful looking stuff. I can't argue about that point.

[OliKMIA]

2 hours ago, wolf33d said:

Using your girlfriend thing while having no clue how to properly use it can only bring frustration. So I can properly compare and not just say I was frustrated testing my GF computer.

I'm ok on my PC, that's her who always comes to borrow my PC laptop because she can't install a software on her MAC. As for having "no clue how to properly use it" I must say that I haven't found a way to magically creates a HDMI, USB and 3.5mm jack on her laptop. If anything she is the "frustrated" one with her MAC book.

[ntblowz]

4 hours ago, OliKMIA said:

I've been a PC guy all my life, just happened like that, like starting with Canon or Nikon. I have zero brand fetishism or preference. I'll switch to Linux or Mac as soon as I see any advantage but right now the Mac computer are just too expensive for the specs.
At home my girlfriend recently bought one of their latest laptop and Iphone and every-time she needs to do something beyond internet browsing she calls me to rescue her:

- Want to install some "exotic" software, NOPE, it doesn't work on Mac

- Want to watch a movie via the Laptop HDMI, of course there is no HDMI out on the Mac laptop

- Want to plug anything in general ? NOPE, there is very little connectivity and the removal of the 3.5mm is utterly stupid IMHO. Just another excuse to sell you overpriced accessories. Plus, I hate the wireless accessories, it always runs out of battery when you need it the most.

- Need a basic apple cable ? You must buy the dedicated Apple cable for $29 or it won't work properly.

As for Apple and ethic, they are no better or worst than all the other silicon valley hipster companies. They are here to do business. They are not cool or evil, just protecting their own interest. Fighting Trump immigration policy when it's bad for their HR strategy but they haven't said anything about the new FCC policy change regarding selling the internet history...

 

THIS

I like my machine configured to my exact liking rather than dumb down approach.

I don't want some fucking authority say what I can do or what I can't do on my own computer, I want it to be able to connect to everything I chuck at it, so all my device have USB 3.0, HDMI, SD CARD reader, which sadly mac can't offer me one ( I got a 5.5" mini laptop that have more useful ports than full sized macbook.. go figure)

 

I used to own macbooks and ipads but at end of the day they are just tools. The Apple ecosystem doesnt suit me.

[AaronChicago]

Not to accelerate the Mac vs PC debate but I've used custom PC towers for video/music work the past 8 years with virtually no troubles at all. I wouldn't even think about switching. I just love being able to add Nvidias new cards when they're released.  I'm a huge fan of Apple's ecosystem of personal use though. I use iPhone, iPad, Macbook, and Apple Watch.

[UncleBobsPhotography]

My experience with my previous iPhone was that it was great 95% of the time but annoyed me more than any other piece of electronics the last 5%. With my Android phone I now run DOSBox with my favourite games from when I was young just because my iPhone wouldn't let me do it. Overall I might have been happier with the iPhone, but those few things it wouldn't let me do drove me nuts. I would imagine that using a Mac would be a similar experience for me.

[dahlfors]

5 hours ago, Jimmy said:

As an all around creative, I find the new macbook to be great. I downgraded from the Mac Pro 2013 (fully spec'd) to the 15" Macbook (fully spec'd)... I can design huge print files in Photoshop, massive UI/UX artboards in Sketch, edit 4K video in Premiere, create complex VFX in After Effects, create 60+ track audio in Reason... I'm struggling to find an example of where the machine chokes and i'm really putting it through it's paces on a day to day basis. The only time I move over to a PC is when we are testing VR stuff on the Vive.

Same. I really enjoy using the new MBP 15". I just wish it would be possible to install 32 GB of RAM. 16 GB being the max in a professional laptop in 2016-2017 is laughable. Also, I wish I still had a physical esc key and not that silly touch bar...

[Damphousse]

6 hours ago, wolf33d said:

Interesting. I use mac at home and PC at work. I can't believe the number of people still using PCs these days. The Mac OS is so much better, the integration with the hardware is in another league, the global experience (speed, bugs, viruses..) is a million time better. 

I would not get a PC even if it was the same specs for 10 times less money. The fact is when you want to buy a real equivalent pc (for exemple a PC that copies the MacBook Air, same aluminium, same battery life of 15h, ...) it's the same price yet the value goes down a lot more. What a joke....

FYI I have a MacBook Pro at home with latest specs, same at work in a PC. Again, same specs but such a different experience. 

 

Interesting that even when Apple themselves admit what we all already know there are some people who keep pushing the old party line.  Apple admitted they f'ed up.  Time to move on.

There are so many kinds of computers out there it is within the realm of possibility some people like you went out and purchased or were handed screwy PCs.  The rest of us do a little research and have a great experience.  Personally I don't like being over charged and dictated to with closed off out of date hardware.

Computer sales in historical terms are down.  Most people are perfectly happy with the computer they have.  I'm more a PC guy but I get that some people like spending more for lesser specs.  They are still going to be able to surf the web, send emails, and listen to MP3s.  And I can do all those functions whether you give me a mac or PC.  If you really can't surf the web and check email on either a mac or PC something is wrong with you.

As far as individual pieces of more robust software are concerned they vary from OS to OS.  No OS has a monopoly.  MS Office is better and more bullet proof on the PC.  I don't care if someone thinks their overpriced closed off iMac looks nicer.  I make my money with spreadsheets.  I need industry standard software and hardware that has maximum up time.  If you work in another industry or office where Mac software is better good for you.  Get a Mac.

A couple of months ago I built a PC from scratch for a great price.  It was like building Lego.  Frankly I like so much control over my experience I don't even buy PCs off the shelf.

And as far as your cost analysis goes I can buy a premium case, power supply, drives, graphics card, etc. and carry it over for build after build.  Only an idiot would buy a brand new computer at retail price every time they needed a processor bump or graphics bump.  But with an overpriced imac?  WTF?!  You have to write off everything including the screen!

Oh, and the virus thing always cracks me up.  PC have more viruses because they are more popular!  It is called being a victim of your own success.

6 hours ago, Phil A said:

 

I agree that it's great how Mac is such an integrated system, the energy saving functions are a lot better than on windows with its non-standardized hardware support woes.

I don't know how macs are in this regard but I have definitely seen PCs that were rock solid in all other respects have issues after sleep and wake.  It is something I advise people to avoid on PCs.  The nice thing though is with the cheap M.2 PCIE drives it takes only a few seconds to go from power on to desktop.  I got a killer deal on a Samsung M.2 NVMe drive on Black Friday.  The thing works like a charm.  Completely plug and play.   Did a straight fresh OS install to the drive on a PC I assembled from scratch.

I am going to see where things shake out with AMD.  But the next PC build may be an AMD.  There is so much going on right now there is no way I could sit still and wait 4+ years for someone to hand me an over priced closed off mistake.

[wolf33d]

3 hours ago, zetty said:

Why should I, if I am loving the experience and have absolutely no frustration with it?

You are so blinded by your own experience, the view your are preaching is extremely narrow minded. If that's what MacOS does to people then no thanks, for that reason alone :D

There is no one-size-fits-all solution when it comes to something as sophisticated as OS.

So you say that "because you are not frustrated with a current environment, why should you look elsewhere" and you tell my I am narrow minded? This is quite funny. 

With your thinking, you never move outside of your confort zone, never try something new, never evolve basically. I have the contrary thinking: always get out of my confort zone, and being not frustrated with something would never be a reason for me not to look elsewhere. 

I have lived and worked multiple years in 5 countries on 4 different continents, explored 40+ countries, explored all religions and most cultured and I have the same approach with what brings us here (tech and video): I have been in pocession of cameras from most camera manufacturers out there, used FCPX for months, Premiere Pro, and Resolve... I always give a try to what surrounds me. Exemples could go on but if anything you are probably a lot more narrow minded that I am, but thanks for the judgment and be happy on Winshit