which headpones?

[Dan Wake]

I can't but true audio monitors so I wish to use headphones. I wish to ask you if you have any clue about which headpones may be a true tool for doing mix/eq for indy films. I need something that is safe to use because I need to be sure that the movie will sound good in theaters after my mix wih the headphones. maybe I should ask in other forums (something more focused into audio stuff than video) but my hope is that someone of you may know the answer anyway.

Thanks.

[Cinegain]

Stuff like this has been discussed before, they're just a forum/google search away.

 

[jcs]

I think these are the best bang for the buck, very detailed and accurate: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00HVLUR86/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1491355714&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=athm50x+headphones

These are a bit more comfortable, not as accurate and detailed (still plenty good for mixing, also fold very compactly), great for location mixing and shooting. Considered the 'standard' all overHollywood): https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000AJIF4E/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1491355963&sr=8-3&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=sony+7506

 

[IronFilm]

ISK HP2011 are crazy good value.

[tomekk]

What you need are headphones with as flat frequency response as possible which basically means they don't change given input sounds on the output. Audio-Technica ATH-M50x that JCS recommended are actually pretty ok. They're fairly flat between 50 and 2khz. Beyond 2khz they get pretty messy so most sounds coming from beyond 2khz won't be accurate. http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudioTechnicaATHM50.pdf

Here is a nice chart showing what instruments use what frequencies which you can refer to  http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm

Avoid any headphones you can't find frequency response chart for. They're most likely really bad if you can't find it. 

 

[Dan Wake]

1 hour ago, tomekk said:

What you need are headphones with as flat frequency response as possible which basically means they don't change given input sounds on the output. Audio-Technica ATH-M50x that JCS recommended are actually pretty ok. They're fairly flat between 50 and 2khz. Beyond 2khz they get pretty messy so most sounds coming from beyond 2khz won't be accurate. http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudioTechnicaATHM50.pdf

Here is a nice chart showing what instruments use what frequencies which you can refer to  http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm

Avoid any headphones you can't find frequency response chart for. They're most likely really bad if you can't find it. 

 

thanks a lot to you all. do you know if there is an headphone model that have a flat frequency response starting from very low frequencies of 20hz? I need it because as sound designer I play very often scuilpting ultra low frequency. I feel "blind" if I cant see those frequency very clear and be sure it will be not too loud when playng in real theaters. I'm often really scared and unsure of what I have done because I have not true control over the monitoring of ultra low bass, it's my true problem.

[Shirozina]

I woudn't try to mix on headphones as the sound presentation will be too different to a theatre speaker setup - headphones for monitoring is a different matter though. If you have you project ready to go to final mix I would recommend you hire a sound production guy and a proper mixing suite for a day and get it done properly. You simply can't make compromises on sound for a feature that will be shown to a public audience.

[Dan Wake]

22 minutes ago, Shirozina said:

I woudn't try to mix on headphones as the sound presentation will be too different to a theatre speaker setup - headphones for monitoring is a different matter though. If you have you project ready to go to final mix I would recommend you hire a sound production guy and a proper mixing suite for a day and get it done properly. You simply can't make compromises on sound for a feature that will be shown to a public audience.

Thanks for your suggestion I work often over indy budget zero projects and it's impossible to pay for it. To be honest I already did indy project that went to theaters and they sounds good, all I need is more control and clarity over some frequency bacause it's a pain without it. I must often use high pass fiter for frequency I cant hear to be sure I will not have bad surprise.

[tomekk]

33 minutes ago, Dan Wake said:

thanks a lot to you all. do you know if there is an headphone model that have a flat frequency response starting from very low frequencies of 20hz? I need it because as sound designer I play very often scuilpting ultra low frequency. I feel "blind" if I cant see those frequency very clear and be sure it will be not too loud when playng in real theaters. I'm often really scared and unsure of what I have done because I have not true control over the monitoring of ultra low bass, it's my true problem.

It could be impossible to find something like that on the cheap. Usually, only higher end headphones offer better quality. Then again, you'd need a proper amp and dac to go with it as well. 

[Dan Wake]

2 hours ago, tomekk said:

It could be impossible to find something like that on the cheap. Usually, only higher end headphones offer better quality. Then again, you'd need a proper amp and dac to go with it as well. 

thanks. it could worth it, if you can suggest me some models I can try to save money for it.

[tomekk]

Oh man, that's a hard one. Get familiar with reviews from this site for starters http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/innerfidelitys-wall-fame#PXUwGrDFcEBe6CG2.97. In the "wall of fame" section there is plenty of reviews at all price levels. In every review they've got a section describing SQ of all frequencies and they do proper measurements at the end. I'll give you an example of good ones with emphasis on clear/natural low end. You have to familariaze yourself with a few different ones and listen to them in store afterwards before buying. http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/hifiman-he-560-planar-magnetic-headphone-page-2#k3YPGt8IulKGtUbS.97

Keep in mind, you want Canon's L-glass in headphones. Clinical and accurate reproduction, not necessarily "beautiful" by your standards. 

[Kisaha]

Working only with headphones is very bad for your hearing, all professionals of sound are a bit deaf(!).

Better buy low-middle (150-200$ each) speakers as monitors, but you certainly needs a good pair of headphones (sometimes to hear closely details later on) for recording as well.

I use mostly Sony MDR7506/Sennheiser HD 25 and I was considering buying the aforementioned Audio Technica ATH M50 or Beyer Dynamic 770 pro or something similar, but I decided to invest later on the best monitors possible under 400$ (each).

I would say, that the "easier" headphones for an average use would be the Audio Technica, after for many years using Beyer Dynamic (the old rectangular DTs were a charm!)/Sennheiser and Sony, I am used of their sound, but most people are more enthusiastic with the ATs.

Honestly, do not find it necessary to pay more than 200$ for headphones.

[jcs]

I found the ATH M50's by listening to detailed music I was familiar with at Guitar Center, trying all the headphones, regardless of price. The ATH M50's sounded the best, and they matched the online price at the time of around $110, which was a very good deal. Have I heard better? Sure, Stax electrostatic ear speakers with high-end preamps: http://www.stax.co.jp/index-E.html. I've listened to various Stax versions with various preamps throughout the years and they always blow me away. However for mixing some folks don't like them (see last review here- they prefer the ATH M50! https://www.amazon.com/STAX-SR-007A-Electrostatic-Earspeakers-Japan/dp/B0013D3BPE/). You really do need to try on and listen to headphones before buying them if you're going to be using them for professional (even hobbyist) mixing.

For monitors I've used higher-end models including the Mackie HR824's (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/mackie-hr824-studio-monitor). These were highly rated and expensive when we purchased them, however I much prefer these guys- Tannoy Reveal 501a: https://www.amazon.com/Tannoy-Reveal-501A-Channel-Monitor/dp/B004B9YL1U (no longer made, new version: https://www.amazon.com/Tannoy-Reveal-502/dp/B00J66GUGW/). Combined with a little FocusRite Scarlet 2i2: https://www.amazon.com/Focusrite-Scarlett-Audio-Interface-Tools/dp/B01E6T56EA/ they sound great (decent preamps for recording too (also use a Sound Devices USBPre2)). I found the Tannoy's the same way as the ATH M50's: listening to known material while at Guitar Center. They sounded far better than much more expensive speakers. As some of the Amazon reviews note, they do put out white noise, but it's less than the MacPro fans so doesn't bother me.

These might be a good deal (after a live listen):

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LI6S6JW?psc=1&smid=A1FEN8WPYFT9YE

https://www.amazon.com/KRK-RP6G3-NA-Generation-Powered-Monitor/dp/B00FXAUWW8/ (good deal for a pair (most monitors sold as single speakers)).

[HockeyFan12]

There's a lot of misinformation on this topic. Flat frequency response vs Harman curve etc.

The industry standard is the Sony MDR-7506. It's what everyone is using. Order from a legit distributor, there are lots and lots of fakes. It's what your clients will probably be using (if you're sound mixing for video editors). Imo, these headphones don't sound particularly good, but they are flat in the crucial vocal range and they are what everyone uses.

The Sennheiser HD280 is similar. Not too detailed (compared with hi fi) and not too sonorous. But pretty accurate and isolating.

Either model is ideal for on set sound mixers. And the Sonys are the industry standard for post, but both work.

In theory, you should use speakers. In practice, it isn't always possible. For headphones, I like the HD650s for working in post, but they're sweeter, more colored, more hi fi so probably not what you want.

[jcs]

38 minutes ago, HockeyFan12 said:

The industry standard is the Sony MDR-7506. It's what everyone is using. Order from a legit distributor, there are lots and lots of fakes. It's what your clients will probably be using (if you're sound mixing for video editors). Imo, these headphones don't sound particularly good, but they are flat in the crucial vocal range and they are what everyone uses.

I agree regarding the 7506's (was the second link in the first reply on this thread). The ATH M50's are quite a bit better acoustically, however they don't fold as compactly and aren't quite as comfortable. The 7506 are $80 vs. $150 for the ATH M50; over time the 7506's have dropped in price and the ATH M50's have gone up. Have a pair of HD580's- very nice sound and comfortable, however the Kevlar cables which 'don't break' (and they haven't) connection is dodgy- gotta jiggle 'em to keep the sound goin'.

The AKG K702's ($219) are reported better sounding and more comfortable than the ATH M50: https://www.amazon.com/AKG-Pro-Audio-Channel-Headphones/dp/B001RCD2DW/

[Cinegain]

Massdrop occasionaly opens sales for the K7XX, basically a re-badged AKG K702 65th-anniversary edition. They're alright.

If you're looking for budget cans, Superlux (e.g. HD-668 B) ain't so bad.

[Andrew Reid]

I'm doing a huge shootout of headphones on EOSHD soon.

The Sennheiser HD600 are a superb choice even still, and the Audioequest Nighthawk if you prefer a darker sounding set, but less neutral. The accuracy of the HD600 though cannot be disputed even if I prefer other cans for music enjoyment.

The best budget option is the Philips SHP9500... Superb, you just cannot get anything better for the price ($60 to $120 depending on region).

[Borbarad]

Well, depends on your Budget.

 

Focal Elear or Utopia, Audeze LCD-X, Hifiman HEX V2, Sennheiser HD800s... just a few. Personal, I use the Elear. Amazing Value for Money.. Haven't listen to the Utopia yet. So the best I've listen to so far is the LCD-X.

 

B

[HockeyFan12]

11 hours ago, jcs said:

I agree regarding the 7506's (was the second link in the first reply on this thread). The ATH M50's are quite a bit better acoustically, however they don't fold as compactly and aren't quite as comfortable. The 7506 are $80 vs. $150 for the ATH M50; over time the 7506's have dropped in price and the ATH M50's have gone up. Have a pair of HD580's- very nice sound and comfortable, however the Kevlar cables which 'don't break' (and they haven't) connection is dodgy- gotta jiggle 'em to keep the sound goin'.

The AKG K702's ($219) are reported better sounding and more comfortable than the ATH M50: https://www.amazon.com/AKG-Pro-Audio-Channel-Headphones/dp/B001RCD2DW/

A friend of mine has both, I think. The K702 is quite good for listening to music, especially EDM etc. however it's open and doesn't fold up so it's inappropriate for field use. Mildly sibilant highs slightly and punchy bass but overall just excellent. The M50 by comparison is relatively a monitor (more accurate, closed back) but it still sounds good, better than the Sonys for music listening. But if everyone else is using 7506 for monitoring, imo it makes sense to do the same imo.

The hi fi trend does not necessarily overlap with what are commonly used as monitors. The 7506 is a good monitor as it's the industry standard. I believe the HD600 and HD650 are used, too. But the hi fi stuff might work for monitoring, too. Of course, in theory you want speakers for your final mix.

For listening, I switch between Stax, an HD650, and the Koss ESP-950. I find the Koss has the best sound for everything but bass-heavy music. For mixing, I hire someone else to do it.  

 

 

[tomekk]

13 hours ago, HockeyFan12 said:

There's a lot of misinformation on this topic. Flat frequency response vs Harman curve etc.

 

I meant "flat"/neutral headphones not flat frequency response, that's why I said, they shouldn't change sounds from input to output, but yeah, my bad. Won't "flat" headphones have flat frequency in an anechoic chamber measured at the microphone, anyway ? Then you add a person and it's not flat anymore, gets complicated and confusing because people are different with different ears and bodies. The goal was to point Dan to where he can read more about it without much pain. It's not clear for audio engineers how to properly measure this stuff anyway. Innerfidelity has quite a bit information on how to read their graphs if he wants to know what they mean.