GH5 focus excellence

[Ken Ross]

Well I can tell you that shot of the bear toward the end is precisely the same shot I've tried with both the A7Rii and A6300 (same exhibit, same bear). Both held focus for about 2-3 seconds, despite their PDAF. I'm not sure if the bear's dark fur presents a difficult task, but I was able to hold focus longer with the GH5 than the PDAF of the Sonys. Go figure. 

As for the micro vibration, I was shooting at close to a 400mm FL (FF equivalent) for many of these shots. I was at the max of the lens plus I used the lossless 1.4 ETC of the camera. The birds were relatively far away. So yeah, without being locked down, I can see a bit of micro vibration in some of these long shots. If you think that's bad, you should see similar shots with Sony's IBIS. This is far far better. I'm actually quite happy being able to hand hold at these focal lengths with just that amount of movement. Coming from Sony's IBIS, this is a delight.  Just remember that no IBIS will create a locked down look at focal lengths like these.

[Vesku]

6 minutes ago, Ken Ross said:

As for the micro vibration, I was shooting at close to a 400mm FL (FF equivalent) for many of these shots. I was at the max of the lens plus I used the lossless 1.4 ETC of the camera. The birds were relatively far away. So yeah, without being locked down, I can see a bit of micro vibration in some of these long shots. If you think that's bad, you should see similar shots with Sony's IBIS. This is far far better. I'm actually quite happy being able to hand hold at these focal lengths with just that amount of movement. Coming from Sony's IBIS, this is a delight.  Just remember that no IBIS will create a locked down look at focal lengths like these.

Your clips at max tele are better than mine with GH4 + 14-140mm OIS only. Still my clips with 100-300mm MEGA OIS at 140mm are little more stable without IBIS (GH4). Olympus IBIS makes micro vibration too with a tele lens. I wonder how good is the new 100-300mm II POWER OIS with non IBIS body.

[Emanuel]

 

[Vesku]

12 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

 

Not very convincing. Subjects are in focus about 10% of time. This is a difficult test because the camera moves so much.

[Emanuel]

:-D Nah, the rate is higher : ) In any case, the camera is on her back with her walk, not good for testing evaluation, I agree.

[Ken Ross]

I suggested on his YouTube video to try 1-area AF and turn off the custom settings. If those were the results I was getting, even though it's a difficult test, I'd certainly go to Plan B.  

[Emanuel]

Ken, is your 14-140 the 2nd version or the f/4-5.8? @Ken Ross

[Ken Ross]

Emanuel, yup, version 2. It's now F3.5-5.6, so a bit faster.

[Davey]

22 hours ago, Ken Ross said:

Well I can tell you that shot of the bear toward the end is precisely the same shot I've tried with both the A7Rii and A6300 (same exhibit, same bear). Both held focus for about 2-3 seconds, despite their PDAF. I'm not sure if the bear's dark fur presents a difficult task, but I was able to hold focus longer with the GH5 than the PDAF of the Sonys. Go figure. 

As for the micro vibration, I was shooting at close to a 400mm FL (FF equivalent) for many of these shots. I was at the max of the lens plus I used the lossless 1.4 ETC of the camera. The birds were relatively far away. So yeah, without being locked down, I can see a bit of micro vibration in some of these long shots. If you think that's bad, you should see similar shots with Sony's IBIS. This is far far better. I'm actually quite happy being able to hand hold at these focal lengths with just that amount of movement. Coming from Sony's IBIS, this is a delight.  Just remember that no IBIS will create a locked down look at focal lengths like these.

140mm (280eq) on my GX80 is miles ahead stability wise than the 200mm f4 on my A7sii - different planet altogether. 

[Emanuel]

 

[Ken Ross]

Now there's a guy who knows his AF!

[jonpais]

In an interview with Panasonic's Dir. of Imaging business, Yosuke Yamane tells DPReview

‘On-sensor phase detection doesn’t work any darker than F8, [which can be a problem in video]. It’s not necessarily true that phase detection is better than DFD plus contrast detection.’

I think they also used to claim that OIS was superior to IBIS for video. He also adds that the development cost of phase detect and putting it in all their sensors would be tremendous. I don't see why anyone would normally be shooting at f/11 or f/16 on a m43 sensor anyhow, so that's pretty lame if you ask me. So it all comes down to expenditure.

[Emanuel]

 

[Emanuel]

^

And here's the review by One Orbit Studios:

 

"The GH5 uses a contrast detection system, which utilizes 225 Auto Focus points and a 480 fps drive speed. In this video I go over two Auto Focus options - Autofocus Flexible (AFF) and Autofocus Single (AFS). I do not cover Autofocus Continuous (AFC) in this video. I found AFF to perform just as well if not better than AFC when tracking moving subjects.


All focus tests performed with the version one of the Panasonic Lumix 12-35mm f2.8. To maintain consistency between all the tests, the speed and reliability of the autofocus system system was tested in the same lighting conditions. Below is a description of the 6 Auto Focus Modes covered in this video:

*Autofocus Flexible or AFF. This option is good for filming in situations were the subject moves unpredictably. Like AFC, this mode will attempt to anticipate the movement of the subject.


1. The first test was performed with the Face/Eye Detection mode. This mode recognizes a subjects face by displaying a square outline. The subjects eyes are tracked with two intersecting lines.

Notes:

- Focus adjusts well when subjects moves towards and away from the camera.

- Rapid movement out of the frame and the GH5 handles focusing well.

- Does adapt well to obstructing the view of the subject.

- Of all the Auto Focus modes, Face/Eye Detection performed the best in low light.


2. The second test was performed with the Tracking mode. To set a Tracking point on your subject simply touch the screen.

Notes:

- Tracking point expands and contracts with subject distance.

- Focus Speed is slow to adjust when moving towards and away from the camera.

- Rapid movement out of the frame and the GH5 struggles to Track the subject and maintain focus.

- Tracking mode does not adapt well when obstructing the view of the subject.

- Very easy to through the Tracking point off.

- Tracking mode performs worse in low light.


*Autofocus Single or AFS. This option is good for filming in situations were the subject is stationary. The remaining tests were performed with a Nikon DSLR in the foreground and a group of Lenses set up in the background.

3. The third test was performed with the 225-Area mode. This mode utilizes up to 225 Autofocus points. This mode is effective when your subjects are not in the center of the frame.




Notes:

- Focus speed was slow to pull subjects close to the camera in focus.

- There was some focus hunting when pulling subjects further from the camera in focus.

- Focus hunting becomes worse in low light.




4. The fourth test was performed with the Custom Multi mode. Among the 225 Autofocus points, this mode enables you to set a custom shape around the subject.


Notes:

- Was able to pull subjects close to the camera in focus.

- This mode Failed to focus on subjects further from the camera.

- Not reliable.


5. The fifth test was performed with the 1-Area mode. This mode sets one area of focus on the subject.


Notes:


- Focus speed was slow to pull subjects close to the camera in focus.

- There was some focus hunting when pulling subjects further from the camera in focus.

- Focus hunting becomes worse in low light but slightly better than 225-Area mode.


6. The sixth test was performed with the PinPoint mode. This mode helps you achieve a more precise focus point on your subject. Tapping on the subject will activate a zoomed in preview of the focus area. You can also slide the cursor on the screen to specify the focus point. You do lose the zoom preview once you press record.


Notes:

- Focus speed was slow to pull subjects close to the camera in focus.

- There was some focus hunting when pulling subjects further from the camera in focus.

- Focus hunting becomes worse in low light.

- Overall this performed just as well as the 1-Area mode.


In summary, the GH5 autofocus system is not good for tracking fast moving subjects. I would recommend using the Face/Eye Detection mode in well lit scenes with high contrast. I would avoid the Tracking and Custom Multi mode, which as you saw were very unreliable. Focus speed was not great but was consistent in the 1-Area and PinPoint modes. In general, the GH5 produced a lot of focus hunting through out our low light tests.

List of Auto Focus modes best to worst:

1. Face/Eye Detection -AFF
2. Pin Point -AFS
3. 1-Area -AFS
4. 225-Area -AFS
5. Tracking -AFF
6. Custom Multi -AFS"

[Emanuel]

 

[Emanuel]

Where tap-to-focus stands as one of the finest workarounds for obvious AF limitations on GH5.

Especially on tripod setup -- take a look from minute 05:09 on:

 

[Emanuel]

Yet, to each its own...

Not the best of tests at all (...) but confirms some accurate principle: each setup/lens requires a/'the' setting by its own (combo is the word).

 

[Emanuel]

In conclusion, Brownstone and Antos testing confirm the need to lock the focus either on camera or tripod to prevent hunting. That's the key.

 

[Ken Ross]

14 hours ago, Emanuel said:

In conclusion, Brownstone and Antos testing confirm the need to lock the focus either on camera or tripod to prevent hunting. That's the key.

 

I've been using AF lock not just on my G85 & GH5, but on Sonys with PDAF. No matter how good the AF is, the camera still doesn't know what you want to focus on. 

[Emanuel]

3 hours ago, Ken Ross said:

I've been using AF lock not just on my G85 & GH5, but on Sonys with PDAF. No matter how good the AF is, the camera still doesn't know what you want to focus on. 

Sure Ken. Meant focus hunting there. The camera doesn't guess by herself. So, as Brownstone also concurs the rule we've been addressed on these boards and even Yuryev and the Luminary Linaschke (PhotoJoseph) have ignored, tap-to-focus is your closer friend to follow.