Sony A9 - announcement live stream

[noone]

5 hours ago, sanveer said:

If the Rolling shutter issues are sorted, that would be great. What about the colour depth and picture quality. I would love to see some comparisons between this and the pics coming out of the Nikon and Canon Flagships.

Also, if they have nailed it for Electronic Shutter, then it would be the single most significant development, since the creation of mirrorless. Because, the noise, the vibration etc etc are actually handicaps in many ways.

Agreed.

This is the first serious camera with a larger sensor that uses an electronic shutter mainly with a mechanical shutter as the secondary.      All the others till now have been the other way around and that is what makes this so special.

It also makes me think Sony has been working on this for years.       Just looking at the (limited) stuff to date and it seems they have got things (reasonably) right.

It IS expensive but maybe not so much for what it is and can do and who it is aimed at.

I think it will sell very well indeed to the small market it is aimed at.

What really gets me drooling is that this sort of tech comes (hopefully soonish) into a camera that I can afford and not just from Sony.

[kidzrevil]

12 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

I just dont see how developing a camera that only photographers that shoot fast action sports in pitch black surroundings and can be profitable. Then again, Sony is probably not making a dime from selling the A7sii either. Time will tell.

bet you sales would skyrocket if they dropped the price of the damn thing ! I know they have all the bleeding edge technology but their pricing scheme is almost pretentious at this point

3 hours ago, Emanuel said:

Because that R stands for Resolution. As same as a7S for Sensitivity. The 1st one of the series is always the midway and the introductory version. Resolution only means different needs, not necessarily higher IQ. The same for speed going with vehicles. Guess if that's important for cargo transportation, as for instance ;-)

exactly why I said i'll wait on a sony a9s

[Don Kotlos]

Watching some reviews tells me that the readout mode and in effect the rolling shutter is different in stills & video mode, so while still improved it does not look better than E-M1mkii, GH5 or A7rii in FF.  

Even though by removing the Picture Profiles means that this is a no-go camera for video, it will be interesting to see whether Sony keeps the A7r/s models or moves them to the A9 line with the same body style. 

By the way, this is how I imagined the body of A9:

[noone]

It seems we will be flooded with photos (and videos) on Wednesday when the embargo is lifted.        

https://www.redsharknews.com/production/item/4532-sony-a9-impressions

 

While I suspect the camera will be excellent (for its target market and not so much EOSHD video people), the way Sony have done this seems superb.

[Arikhan]

It seems impossible to get some info on HSS capabilities and some details when using flash. I ask me WHY?
Oops...I hope, this guy is not right:

This guy is aware about some critical situations, where marketing speach would not be enough...Wait and see...

[mercer]

I haven't read all of the posts in this thread, so excuse me if this has been mentioned... but at this price, one would think they'd offer the Raw video upgrade like the FS5 received. 

[Snowfun]

I'm not sure if we should be surprised at the omission of "video" features (especially those requiring extensive post) as this is so obviously aimed at the rapid-turn around pro sports/news market. Indeed, this might be a good thing as it might - might - imply that a more video orientated version (with all the "missing" features) will be released.

[BasiliskFilm]

2 hours ago, Snowfun said:

I'm not sure if we should be surprised at the omission of "video" features (especially those requiring extensive post) as this is so obviously aimed at the rapid-turn around pro sports/news market. Indeed, this might be a good thing as it might - might - imply that a more video orientated version (with all the "missing" features) will be released.

Sony has more of a record of piling in features that are not quite ready than deliberately crippling a camera to prevent it competing with other models. As the first full frame oversampled 4K camera I am surprised they don't have picture profiles etc, but maybe they will be added in. Not unprecidented for LOG curves to be a paid upgrade.

4 hours ago, mercer said:

I haven't read all of the posts in this thread, so excuse me if this has been mentioned... but at this price, one would think they'd offer the Raw video upgrade like the FS5 received. 

Either the processing pipeline will be fast enough to offer Raw video or it won't. My guess is with the compact body and the cards they are using it would be tough to implement.

[thefactory]

9 hours ago, Snowfun said:

I'm not sure if we should be surprised at the omission of "video" features (especially those requiring extensive post) as this is so obviously aimed at the rapid-turn around pro sports/news market. Indeed, this might be a good thing as it might - might - imply that a more video orientated version (with all the "missing" features) will be released.

I don't think Sony can use that as a reason. Just cause all the options are there does not mean you need to use them. Would be nice to have them. Since I set up my a7sii with eoshd profile I have not touched log. Footage straight out is normally good enough for most applications and quick turnaround for my needs.

All reports so far is that it seems to be improved video. Better rolling shutter, battery etc. the only reason I could see to omit the pic profiles is to protect or force us to have different Sony cameras for different applications. 

If it had them I would only need the a9 for what I do instead of a7sii and a6300. 

Just have to wait it out and see what else comes out over the next few months.

[thefactory]

The ports on the side of a9 (flash/Ethernet ports) are interesting. Quite a lot of space there but both not needed on a video optimized camera. Wonder what they could put there instead? 

[jax_rox]

4 hours ago, thefactory said:

The ports on the side of a9 (flash/Ethernet ports) are interesting. Quite a lot of space there but both not needed on a video optimized camera. Wonder what they could put there instead? 

Seems about right for SDI ports...

14 hours ago, Snowfun said:

I'm not sure if we should be surprised at the omission of "video" features (especially those requiring extensive post) as this is so obviously aimed at the rapid-turn around pro sports/news market. Indeed, this might be a good thing as it might - might - imply that a more video orientated version (with all the "missing" features) will be released.

The problem is the FS5. The a9 is already only ~$1k cheaper than an FS5. What do you put in a video-oriented a9 that warrants you purchasing that instead of an FS5...? And how do you then protect FS5 purchases?

[tugela]

On ‎4‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 11:59 AM, Andrew Reid said:

Isn't it a hybrid system with phase detect AF points on the sensor and contrast detect too?

I don't see how that can compete with Dual Pixel AF.

Even if it is faster for single shot AF in stills mode (with Sony's lenses only) - you have far less information from that kind of autofocus system.

It won't be as good at object tracking in video mode. The sensor has to run at 24fps which means the read out is too slow to get the AF information off the chip for fast and reliable results.

With DPAF every pixel gives AF information to the lens and processor... Millions of them.

Sony should move to DPAF.

The sensor may have millions of DPAF detectors, but the limit is how much of those the processor can handle and at what rate. It is extremely unlikely that DIGIC is even vaguely capable of doing a significant number of those points. It is probably sampling a few hundred on a continuous basis only (and possibly a lot less than that as well), much like the detect systems on any other mirrorless camera. "Millions of detectors" might sound good in the marketing hype, but it is just that. Hype.

That, combined with the superior processing power in the latest Sony cameras, is why the inherent AF performance in the A9 outstrips DPAF. 

[JurijTurnsek]

I was a Canon shooter in the beginning (complete novice, got a cheap used rebel and built from there) and used to check Canon Rumors a lots. Since then I switched to Sony and SAR, but I do occasionally check Canon rumors (to see which pieces of reviews they point out versus which ones are pointed out by SAR) and today I saw this:

http://www.canonrumors.com/sony-a9-mirrorless-camera-now-available-for-preorder/

CR offering preorder link for a direct competitor body! Ouch. AFAIK CR should be doing alright from their affiliate links and loads of traffic, so this seems like a very risky move, but also a good indicator of the A9's importance (as a photo body).

[Arikhan]

@JurijTurnsek

Quote

but also a good indicator of the A9's importance (as a photo body)

May be...the A9 will get a fresh wind to the market + increase competition. BUT I know very man pro photographers with ten thousands investments in CanoNikon gear - and 99% of them will not enter the Sony ecosystem at the moment. Some of them have a A7R ii and 2-3 Sony lenses as B/C body for portraiture and studio work and like it. But CanoNikon gives them in Germany a quite good support (and in case of defective units, loaners to continue their work till repair) and  very many lenses, mostly more affordable than Sony long tele lenses. Point 1.

Point 2: The low-light focusing with a mirroless camera vs. good DSLR is critical...It's not all about good ISO capabilities in low light...First you have to get a accurate & fast focus - that is the most important when shooting moving objects in very low light wedding scenarios, where not allowed to use flash or any another addtional lighting. So, even if paid "artisans", fanboys and Sony marketers claim, the A9 would be the "dream camera" for wedding photography, we just have to await approval for this promise (electronic shutter + flickering lights = banding?)...Till now, normal "pros" simply don't trust mirrorless AF in low light scenarios with moving subjects...

Point 3: Most pros (guys who make a living out of their profession) I konw simply don't care about new announcements at the moment. They care mostly about bad rates for their work and acquiring nicely paid, additonal photo jobs to survive...

[Kisaha]

I don't know if you have post this already, (I was away of my base for a few days for work, and I missed a few pages here and there!) but it mentions some of the things I said when the A9 announced

https://***URL removed***/opinion/1937765842/sony-a9-why-being-better-might-not-be-enough

this is a professional (and not for all professionals) photo camera, if people value video more, they need a different camera, as simple as than, I do not understand all the complaints and stuff..

[Don Kotlos]

Quote

"First of all, Sony denies any “conspiracy theory” that one hardware line is disabled in order to prevent it for cannibalizing sales. Sony says it chooses feature sets based on anticipated user need. In the case of the a9, Sony’s unofficial response is that video shooters already have the a7R II and a7S II, which have log. But more important is the response that this camera is not targeted specifically to be a video camera. It is a flagship high-speed mirrorless camera for the newsgathering, sports, wildlife and fast-paced event market segments."

https://www.redsharknews.com/production/item/4532-sony-a9-impressions

Bollocks. Not only they have Picture Profiles in RX100, but they made a big deal about 6K-->4K video during the A9 release FFS. They simply don't want video oriented people to get this camera. Had they included PP there would be very little point in getting the A7sii anymore.

On the fun side, I just found the best feature of the A9 camera: They have an actual bar that indicates the buffer capacity. It feels like a (very expensive) first person shooter game:

EDIT: It would be really funny if they had a temperature bar as well :D 

 

[jax_rox]

4 hours ago, Don Kotlos said:

Had they included PP there would be very little point in getting the A7sii anymore.

 

?

you mean except a $2k price difference...? 

Why does not having Picture Profiles make a camera incompatible with video shooting...?

Sure, having log etc. might have been nice. But even A7s/II doesn't really perform all that much better necessarily in log or Cine, especially considering it's 8-bit.

If you really want to see an improvement, get onto Sony about implementing a 10-bit codec. 

Lack of Picture Profiles is really neither here nor there. Spend your time shooting rather than complaining about tiny barely relevant features that a camera does or doesn't have.

[thefactory]

8 minutes ago, jax_rox said:

 

Why does not having Picture Profiles make a camera incompatible with video shooting...?

Why not include something that it almost every camera they make? 

At first I thought how Canon. Then I thought this is worse.

Canon cripple lower level cameras by leaving features out.

Sony's self claimed first truly "pro" camera, leaves useful features out that are found in lower level cameras. Wtf?

The cannibalizes other models theory is the only one that makes sense. 

[jax_rox]

2 minutes ago, thefactory said:

Why not include something that it almost every camera they make? 

At first I thought how Canon. Then I thought this is worse.

Canon cripple lower level cameras by leaving features out.

Sony's self claimed first truly "pro" camera, leaves useful features out that are found in lower level cameras. Wtf?

The cannibalizes other models theory is the only one that makes sense. 

You know that targeting specific markets with a product is a completely viable business decision...?

If you like the camera, buy it. It's still going to give you incredible footage despite not having Picture Profiles.

There's still a huge pro photography market that doesn't use video, or at least not to the extent of Picture Profiles...

I'd posit that 90% of people complaining about lack of PPs don't even really know what PPs do, or why you should use them in the first place anyway...

People do really just love to bash Sony hey... it's become somewhat of a sport...

[thefactory]

1 hour ago, jax_rox said:

People do really just love to bash Sony hey... it's become somewhat of a sport...

Not bashing Sony. Just think they should live up to the expectations that they have set. I switched to Sony because of the innovation and the ridiculous amount of features they jam into a body. We live with the quarks because of this. 

But now, they are leaving good features on the table.