Sony A9 - announcement live stream

[jax_rox]

3 hours ago, thefactory said:

Not bashing Sony. Just think they should live up to the expectations that they have set. I switched to Sony because of the innovation and the ridiculous amount of features they jam into a body. We live with the quarks because of this. 

But now, they are leaving good features on the table. 

You're saying they're 'worse than Canon' (what does that mean? Worse than a company who didn't innovate for years and then brought out a camera with few modern features?) purely for the omittence of a small feature that has little effect on the product's target market. 

Not only that, it's possible the feature will even be implemented down the line.

At the end of the day, Sony, as with every company we discuss here, are still a business - and businesses' main goal is to make money.

If there were no video mode, I might agree with you. If Slog and other Picture Profiles really made a night-and-day difference on the A7 series, I might agree with you.

But as far as I can tell, they've omitted a feature that is often complained about by the same people now complaining it doesn't have it, has never made sense to me anyway given the 8-bit codec and really doesn't increase the effective usable dynamic range all that much...

There are certainly times when Slog and Cine profiles are very useful. But I'd be interested to know how many who are complaining about this have personally tested it themselves, know how the curves work and when and why you'd use them.

Every single sub-$5k camera launch, I know there'll be complaints on here unless it's downsampled 4K 10-bit 422 ProRes internally, raw externally via HDMI, an image that looks like an Alexa, Canon colours, 100% perfect AF, log (but not really log, just a log-ish mode that increases DR but has a magic button in Resolve that will turn it into beautiful imagery), noiseless images up to at least 12500 ISO, and a battery that lasts for at least three days on a single charge.

[thefactory]

1 hour ago, jax_rox said:

You're saying they're 'worse than Canon' (what does that mean? Worse than a company who didn't innovate for years and then brought out a camera with few modern features?) purely for the omittence of a small feature that has little effect on the product's target market. 

 

1

I did not say there are worse than Canon. I stated that its a Canon like decision to omit features from cameras. I'm not a Canon / Nikon shooter, but I assume their top line cameras the 1dxii and the d5 have customisable profiles?

[kaylee]

omg so with the battery grip and tax this thing is well over $5k without lenses or anything else?

i dont think still photographers are going to go for this lol

[jax_rox]

1 hour ago, thefactory said:

I did not say there are worse than Canon. 

 

8 hours ago, thefactory said:

At first I thought how Canon. Then I thought this is worse.

 

By 'Canon-like decision' do you mean 'making a business decision to maximise profit'?

 

[thefactory]

1 hour ago, jax_rox said:

 

 

By 'Canon-like decision' do you mean 'making a business decision to maximise profit'?

 

 

Exactly, screw over their customers cause we keep going back for more. 

[Kisaha]

You act like customers do not have a mind of their own. People are free to buy whatever it is in the market, and most of them, choose Canon. 

There are more than one reason for high Canon sales, even in some big mirrorless markets are number 2 for 2016 (before M5 and M6)! Canon ain't the devil, is just the most successful imaging company in the world. C100 and C300 cameras are(were) huge successes at their time (and still are) and they just need to come up with a newer version of their best selling C100 series.

They just created a CN-E series of lenses, and I see a best selling product right through it, and in the first try, while if you have read the reviews, Sony in their 3rd try haven't succeed to offer a great such solution.

Of course there is a Canon premium in those products, but I am willing to pay it if they save me money, health and time in the short or medium term. A C100marklII (if it is out in 2017, and it should) and the 18-80/70-200 CN-E lenses (and probably a Tamron 11 or 12mm zoom) will be enough for most people, for most productions in the planet until 2022! 

Canon reads the market right, have a very wide product list from compact cameras to big cinema ones and the best selling lens series (in almost every category) in the history of humanity. Their equipment is mostly reliable and enough for the purpose they are manufactured. Do I own one? No, because in 2015 Samsung NX was just amazing to pass, and where is NX right now? Nowhere near Canon.

Depending the budget, in most instances, I use Canon though.

 

 

[Don Kotlos]

Madness I agree.

[wolf33d]

the AF is absolutely insane in video. 

look at 1:05 and the sprinting girl towards the camera. Best tracking I have ever seen

[BasiliskFilm]

6 hours ago, wolf33d said:

the AF is absolutely insane in video. 

look at 1:05 and the sprinting girl towards the camera. Best tracking I have ever seen

First full frame readout on a sensor over 12 MP,  The AF looks excellent, the low light performance very good (most people don't really need A7SII shoot-in-the-dark capabilities), the 4K image super detailed, the rolling shutter much improved (given 6K sensor readout), even the 120 fps looks fairly clean and detailed, excellent stills capability (24MP is good for most things). So no picture profiles really seems slightly perverse. I haven't got the money, but the picture profiles does seem a bit of a sticking point, otherwise my lottery win would be straight on this camera.

[Kisaha]

@BasiliskFilm Rolling shutter ain't much improved. This sensor can make the perfect video orientated full frame mirrorless, but it needs some tweaks and improvements still, but it is in a very good level already. Now, if it doesn't cost as much as a small true cine camera, that would be much appreciated.

[BasiliskFilm]

58 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

@BasiliskFilm Rolling shutter ain't much improved. This sensor can make the perfect video orientated full frame mirrorless, but it needs some tweaks and improvements still, but it is in a very good level already. Now, if it doesn't cost as much as a small true cine camera, that would be much appreciated.

It won't win prizes for rolling shutter, but no one else is doing 6K readout down sampled to 4K on full frame, so it is not surprising it is still there, and it is certainly better than the A6500. Would be good to see a full assessment of the HD modes to see if there is an improvement in image quality and rolling shutter there. For fast moving or hand-held shots, HD is often enough. HD on the A6500 is a let down after the IQ of 4K. 

[Trek of Joy]

Yesterday I was shopping in China with my wife and walked into a giant camera store - much to my surprise there was a A9 demo event. Despite not knowing anything being said from the Sony rep, everyone in the audience, or even being able to decipher the menus - it was awesome. The body improvements make it really feel good, more chunk in the grip, better control layout - lord the new record button is just great compared to the ball point pen tip they've used on every other e-mount body - and jeezus its fast. 20fps is not my thing, but the A9 is a beast. AF and tracking are next level for mirrorless - much better than anything I've seen from the EM1.2, XT2 and the A6500 or A7rII. Everyone in attendance shot stills, so when the rep reviewed images on a big 4k tv, I didn't see any video. If I had a spare card I would have shot some stills and tried to shoot video - they were letting people take away images, but the menus were in Chinese so I don't know if I would have been able to tinker with framerates and bitrates. Very cool though as this was the first time I've seen a camera pre-release like this.

Funny side note - a guy was pairing the A9 with his phone to download images and he knocked over a cup of water sitting on the counter next to the camera and it splashed the A9 body and a a6500/18-110 cine lens combo sitting on the counter next to the A9. A shop staffer gave him major stink eye as he wiped water off the everything, but the weather sealing did its job. That cine lens is sweet too.

 

[JurijTurnsek]

Looks like S-LOG is coming via FW update:
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/digglloyd-claims-sony-a9-patternbanding-noise-iso-100/

[tellure]

Does anyone know if the A9 still darkens the screen when recording 4K video?

[tellure]

Just watched Max's video linked above, he says "no screen dimming whatsoever".  Thank god.  Now if they could just add picture profiles via firmware..

[ntblowz]

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/first-sony-a9-overheating-issue-report/

Man Sony and Overheating have become synchronous

[tugela]

10 hours ago, ntblowz said:

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/first-sony-a9-overheating-issue-report/

Man Sony and Overheating have become synchronous

Apparently it is just a warning, but the camera will continue to operate if you set it up to do that.

So, basically Sony provides a warning while other cameras maybe not. That does not mean that one or the other is behaving any differently though. Sony is saying "hey, I'm getting hot", while other cameras are keeping mum about it (until they shut down anyway).

[BasiliskFilm]

1 hour ago, tugela said:

Apparently it is just a warning, but the camera will continue to operate if you set it up to do that.

So, basically Sony provides a warning while other cameras maybe not. That does not mean that one or the other is behaving any differently though. Sony is saying "hey, I'm getting hot", while other cameras are keeping mum about it (until they shut down anyway).

I am afraid as Sony was originally an electronics company rather than a photographic company they have always sought to fit the most functionality into the smallest package - remember the Walkman folks? So the sensor and processor are through-putting the maximum data in the smallest space, as well as offering extra cleverness like sensor stabilisation. 
The Canon and Nikon equivalents are just not working quite as hard, and have more space for cooling.

[noone]

1 hour ago, tugela said:

Apparently it is just a warning, but the camera will continue to operate if you set it up to do that.

So, basically Sony provides a warning while other cameras maybe not. That does not mean that one or the other is behaving any differently though. Sony is saying "hey, I'm getting hot", while other cameras are keeping mum about it (until they shut down anyway).

Yes.     It seems the A9 actually has two warnings.     The first is just letting you know the temp is rising.   

Doesn't seem to be an issue for almost all users so far.

I would love to have that camera but it is a bit too rich for me.

[tugela]

1 hour ago, BasiliskFilm said:

I am afraid as Sony was originally an electronics company rather than a photographic company they have always sought to fit the most functionality into the smallest package - remember the Walkman folks? So the sensor and processor are through-putting the maximum data in the smallest space, as well as offering extra cleverness like sensor stabilisation. 
The Canon and Nikon equivalents are just not working quite as hard, and have more space for cooling.

No, Nikon and Canon don't have processors that can perform, so their functionality is compromised in one way or another to stay with a working thermal envelope. Sony have more thermal issues because they are pushing the boundary more than Canikon.

Manufacturers with the most capable processors (which is where the heat comes from) are Panasonic and Samsung (now out of the market). If you want(ed) sheer performance, those are the companies which would deliver, not Canikon.