Sony A9 - announcement live stream

[Arikhan]

@webrunner5

Hmm...Never underestimate Canons and Nikons power in journalism or wedding market. Their brands as still cameras are very strong and they have very good and reliable devices. Sony is very innovative but though it has to learn built quality & usability from its competitors. Innovation and technical excellence are only two aspects in a very complex and competitive market hardly damaged by the "smartphone revolution"...Just my 2 cents...

[eleison]

21 minutes ago, Arikhan said:

(Photo)journalists don't care about the unrealistic phantasy or parallel universe of "enthusiasts".

Doesn't matter.  Take out the "enthusiasts", and the company goes bankrupt.  Think about it, if canon only sold 1DX m2 and Nikon only sold D5.... Bye, Bye Canon.. Bye, Bye Nikon...  See you guys in Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

If canon or Nikon stopped selling their flag ship cameras (ak "halo camera"), they would STILL BE ABLE to survive selling their "enthusiasts" camera.  These expensive "halo" cameras are there for a reason.. The same reason why "halo" cars exists - to make the unwashed masses to want to buy the brand that is the "best", even if they can only afford the sony a6000, or the canon rebel (or whatever their low end camera is)...

[MountneerMan]

3 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

This announcement crashed the website.

Sorry about that, looking into it with the host.

Anyone else had slow page load times from EOSHD during the last 30 minutes?

Ok good to know it wasnt just me... I was thinking it was my sony laptop overheating or the battery was dying or something.

 

Lol. just kidding I would never buy a sony.... laptop that is.

 

On a serious note any predictions for when and what specs for a a9s?

My guess we will see a a9r by Q4 2017 and a a9s by Q1 or 2 of 2018. and I would expect they would need to do 4:2:2 internal and 4k 60p especially with the GH5 out now.

[Don Kotlos]

S-log is one thing, but no picture profiles? I like the colors from the A7rII only because I can modify them to my liking with PP. 

Trusting Sony's defaults is a bit too much to ask. Look at these color clipped clouds:

 

[Chrad]

Why would Sony add 10 bit?

They're already number one in this segment. They know most people don't care.

Panasonic added 10 bit out to the GH4 only after they'd let their AF100  die. They were replacing both it and the GH3 with that camera.

Sony are doing very well with interchangable lens camcorders. Why mess with a good thing?

They are in Canon territory now - want pro video features? Better shell out.

[Juxx989]

 

 

[Andrew Reid]

No picture profiles is a bit of a disaster and shows that they are not aiming at video shooters with this.

Seems Sony would much rather we buy a 10bit 4:2:2 A7S 3... With picture profiles.

Looks like we will have to hold off on the purchase and wait to see what NAB brings!

[BTM_Pix]

I'm reading a lot about this being a pro sports camera so just my thoughts as a working pro sports photographer...

In terms of speed, this thing obviously ticks a lot of boxes.

But its not just speed we need in terms of fps, af and evf refresh etc but its speed of the glass and the throughput of images.

Like any other manufacturer trying to usurp Nikon and Canon, the response to this in my particular field (no pun intended) - and it may will be different for non-sports dedicated photojournalist - is "Yep, thats very nice but where is your 400mm f2.8 ?" and "How fast can I review, select and get an image out of it?"

For the lens issue, honestly if they turn up trying to turn anyone's head with that 100-400 they launched today and offering it as the answer they'll literally get laughed at. 

I've shot with an f5.6 lens of course but its the very specialised constant aperture 300-800mm "Sigmonster" that only sees the light of day (quite literally) for very particular circumstances like Cricket or motor racing when there are range issues. For low light football, even in Category A stadiums holding  major finals, its a major risk unless you are absolutely sure that you can guarantee the light. For slow shutter speed stuff like profile shots its fair enough but not when you need to push the shutter speed for action shots. Even with bodies that do a gazillion ISO the end result can look rough. 

But its not just the light gathering thats the issue, its the subject isolation that a 2.8 gives you that you just can't replicate with a 5.6

So I'm baffled why they haven't brought out a 400mm 2.8 at the same time.

The image throughput is another issue and it remains to be seen how intuitive their image review process is but already one alarm bell is that I can't see an image lock button on the back of it. I've droned on at length about this on another thread but its a massively important function for ingesting only the relevant images out of a few hundred when you're in a hurry. And we're always in a hurry! If they haven't made that mappable to a function button then, like Fuji, its such a fundamental feature that you wonder who they've actually been doing any research with. 

With regard to the ethernet port. Well, yes, its a decent feature to have but if we've got an ethernet port at our pitch position (a bit of a luxury actually) then we have it connected to our laptops for two reasons. 1 - Its the laptop that is needed as a central comms point (it may be taking images from several cameras, its FTPing edited images, its receiving emails from agencies etc) and 2- We can't be tethered to the camera when shooting as its as dangerous as it is restrictive when you're working in these environments. 

I've attached a picture of my shooting position from a Champions League final (yes, the gap between the two larger gentlemen). When you are in such a restricted space and juggling two long lens cameras, while simultaneously editing  images on a laptop that is literally perched on your lap, the last thing you can be is physically attached to it. The cameras get totally abused in these circumstance with being dropped (intentionally sometimes) so cables are a no no. And, of course, we're never shooting with just one camera so there's no way we're going to be adding a router into this equation, hence we need a wireless module. Even if they are the ludicrously expensive ones like Nikon and Canon do.

The bottom line I suppose is if we can't capture what we can capture now and work the way we all work now then there is no compulsion to change, especially when there isn't a massively compelling price differential and the lenses that they do make that would be worthwhile (the 300 f2.8 and the 500 f4) are a lot more expensive than the equivalent offerings from Nikon and Canon. And thats before we get on to the fact that those lenses from the other two are battle hardened, proven pieces. Has anyone ever even seen one of those Sony long primes outside of a trade show? 

In their defence - and seemingly unlike Fuji - they seem to be taking a serious approach with regard to service levels that pros would need and I'm sure we'll see their presence at events with mobile workshops and equipment loans like Nikon and Canon do. This is a good sign but, again, they face an uphill battle here because even at regular events where there is no official support, you'll always be able to borrow something in an emergency off another photographer. So, if I need to use an ultra wide for an exterior stadium shot, for example, I can probably walk about 20 feet in the photographers room and cadge one for 20 minutes off another Nikon shooter. Not quite as easy when you're the only Sony shooter in the room!

So, if they're to do this (at least in my field and it could be very different for non sport shooting photojournalists etc) its going to take a lot of persuasion to get people to change. Just producing the body is the tip of the iceberg. I often compare this to what happened to RED when they thought producing the original RED ONE would let them take over Hollywood. Its everything else around the capture device that needs working on too and thats why they're many generations down the line and still on the coattails of the established dominant player.

There is definitely a market for a mirrorless camera to take over in my field but I still believe it will have a Nikon and/or a Canon badge on it.

The market for the goods we supply as sports photographers is shrinking financially and people tend to get even more conservative and will only switch when there is a major financial incentive. I just don't think Sony tick that financial box and its where Fuji might have an advantage.

The resistance to change is what they need to get over and for every sports photographer like me that wants to make a change there are probably at least a hundred that don't. This isn't a number I'm plucking out of thin air either. Next week, will be the first Premier League game that I've shot on a mirrorless system (the X-T2) and I would hazard a guess that its the first Premier League game that anyone has shot with it. Am I nervous about it if it will perform ? No, not really as I've run enough tests to know IQ wise its up to but I do have reservations about how much it will get in my way in terms of getting those images out. What I'm more nervous about is having to field all the "What the fuck is that?" reactions from the other snappers and the sneering about using a 'toy' camera.

Overcoming peer pressure is going to be a bigger task for Sony than overcoming EFV blanking to be honest.

I bet you its a fine camera though.

[deezid]

1 hour ago, Don Kotlos said:

S-log is one thing, but no picture profiles? I like the colors from the A7rII only because I can modify them to my liking with PP. 

Trusting Sony's defaults is a bit too much to ask. Look at these color clipped clouds:

 

At least the colors look nice. But yeah clipping and sharpening really sucks... As well as heavy noise reduction it seems, low contrast areas look like out of focus.

[Kisaha]

This is a sports photography professional camera. Not my field and not that video friendly anyway, so I can keep my car (that goes used for a similar price).

The only good thing out of this announcement is the new battery, it took them 3-4 years of complaints, but finally they will deliver, a bigger battery. Sony at its best.

[ntblowz]

Good thing I dont hold off purchase for this crap, too expensive consider I can get 2nd hand 1DXII for lower than this.

[Nikkor]

The body is just ridiculous. I have trouble handling the D4 with the 200-400 f4, what's the Point of this Camera?

[BTM_Pix]

59 minutes ago, Juxx989 said:

 

 

Had to laugh when I saw the LCD when he was shooting from 6:40 ish

He does love a bit of face detect auto focus Max, doesn't he

[noone]

42 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

So I'm baffled why they haven't brought out a 400mm 2.8 at the same time.

I am sure it (they) will come.

Meanwhile, it seems A mount lenses with an LA-EA3 adapter on this camera will be close to (if not) native which means 300 2.8,500 f4 and 600 f4 lenses from Sony Minolta as well as some third party super teles.

I can see quite a few Canon Pro sports shooters getting one of these to use alongside their DSLR with their Canon lenses at least for a while.      More for general photojournalists though I think at least until the exotic teles are available.

I would also think Canon lenses will work well enough for sports in many cases on this camera.

As far as this forum goes, I think a much more important part of the announcement is the battery adapter kit launched alongside.     For the other E mount cameras too.

 

[thefactory]

It's like they combined a7sii and a6300 with better battery and 20fps. Better focus. Price wise for a little more than a7sii/a6300 cameras. 

I use a7sii for video work and 6300 for photos. This does both. Well almost. Pity about the picture profiles.

sony are pushing HDR tv's. let's see what NAB brings. 

[noone]

This isn't a camera for making movies with video, it is a camera for getting a video of someone being shot or stabbed for the nightly news and stills of same for the newspaper..

[thefactory]

Maybe this battery makes its way into the a7 range?

[noone]

1 minute ago, thefactory said:

Maybe this battery makes its way into the a7 range?

Doesn't need to  so much for video though with the other thing announced.

https://***URL removed***/news/0791366678/sony-npa-mqz1k-multi-battery-adaptor-kit-provides-power-for-e-mount-users

[BTM_Pix]

40 minutes ago, noone said:

I am sure it (they) will come.

Meanwhile, it seems A mount lenses with an LA-EA3 adapter on this camera will be close to (if not) native which means 300 2.8,500 f4 and 600 f4 lenses from Sony Minolta as well as some third party super teles.

I can see quite a few Canon Pro sports shooters getting one of these to use alongside their DSLR with their Canon lenses at least for a while.      More for general photojournalists though I think at least until the exotic teles are available.

I would also think Canon lenses will work well enough for sports in many cases on this camera.

As far as this forum goes, I think a much more important part of the announcement is the battery adapter kit launched alongside.     For the other E mount cameras too.

 

Sorry, they (Sony) are so far off my radar that I actually didn't realise that their two long primes aren't native mount for this camera.

Is there not a known AF speed hit using that adapter and will it still do AF-C?

With regard to the Canon shooters, my view would be that the more general photojournalists are the more likely to transition while still using their Canon glass.

Sports shooters would need an awful lot of convincing regarding using adapters, particularly when adding TC's in between them as well. The amount of tolerance for any reduction in AF speed would literally be zero. I think for those - and many other reasons such as interoperability and accessories such as speedlites and remote triggers etc) if they do go it will have to be lock, stock and barrel as an entire system.

Which is why I still think my money is on the two current dominant brands to win the mirrorless war when they eventually pull their finger out and make one.

But if I was a Canon shooter, rather than a Nikon one, doing what I'm doing now which is trying to buck the trend and go mirrorless in sport then I'd be very interested in trying it out to use with my existing glass but it would have to be about half the price to warrant the risk!

[Ken Ross]

2 hours ago, Arikhan said:

@Ken Ross

(Photo)journalists don't care about the unrealistic phantasy or parallel universe of "enthusiasts". Dreaming around doesn't make profit. Only sharp photos/1080p footage with decent compositon and unique selling points - ready to send and immediately published - are profitable. It's all about capture the moment - and publish it, as fast as you can. Neither place nor time for dreaming or tweaking around... 

Just try to find some reliable (not lunatic) infos about bitrates and quality requirements for US- or European broadcasting, relevant for photo- and video journalists. You'll be very surprized: there is no 4K 60fps. Just try to quit a phantasy world and dive for some moments in reality...

I'm well aware of the crappy quality requirements for U.S. broadcasting, but the fact that it could be made far far better doesn't minimize the advantages of 4K60p. When we multi stream 3 and sometimes 4 sub-channels on the same broadcast channel, it doesn't leave me impressed. Most importantly, the fact that an 'enthusiast' can produce technically, better quality material than the end result of what we see on TV, is a good thing, not one that should be derided.

I'm amused by your apparent disdain for 'enthusiasts'. You use it as an almost dirty word.