Sony A7S Mark 3 - What to expect

[webrunner5]

53 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

I think it's unlikely that the A7Siii will be $3000 unless it's a modest upgrade. I'm guessing it'll be $3500 or so, given these cameras seem to increase in price every generation. I also think that might've been why the A7iii was priced so low. 

Yeah but hell I can buy an original FS5 for 3500 dollars all day. Ain't no way I want a A7s mk III over that unless I Need the form factor. Sure no 60p in 4k , but I doubt it will be in body on the new A7s mk III unless they have redesigned the body. But 60p is a big deal no doubt for a filmmaker.

[wolf33d]

3 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

I think it's unlikely that the A7Siii will be $3000 unless it's a modest upgrade. I'm guessing it'll be $3500 or so, given these cameras seem to increase in price every generation. I also think that might've been why the A7iii was priced so low. 

No increase on A7RIII from the II.

2 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Yeah but hell I can buy an original FS5 for 3500 dollars all day. Ain't no way I want a A7s mk III over that unless I Need the form factor. Sure no 60p in 4k , but I doubt it will be in body on the new A7s mk III unless they have redesigned the body. But 60p is a big deal no doubt for a filmmaker.

Of course it is in body. The A7S3 has no reason to exist if it is 4k30p like a7III yet cost 1000 more...

[webrunner5]

You believe the new Sony A7s mk III will have 4K 60p, 10 bit internal, Really? I believe it will have it, but not internal. It will be like the Z7 in a sense. HDMI out stuff.

I don't see it happening in the same size body. And if they make it a lot bigger why have it. Just buy a real Cine Camera. I think the A7s ought to be a Cine camera anyways. Why try to make a little body do what it can't really do. It Needs NDs, on and on for the money now they are charging. Ain't going to happen in a A7 body.

[jonpais]

@wolf33d did not say 4K 60p 10-bit 4:2:2 internal. He just said 4K 60p. In fact, he specifically noted 10-bit 4:2:2 would most likely be external only.

[webrunner5]

3 minutes ago, jonpais said:

@wolf33d did not say 4K 60p 10-bit 4:2:2 internal. He just said 4K 60p.

Than why even bother then. Nobody wants that in 2019 now. Not for 3500 bucks or more.

[jonpais]

5 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Than why even bother then. Nobody wants that in 2019 now.

I do!

And nobody knows the cost, so I’ve got no idea where the $3,500 figure came from.

[webrunner5]

5 minutes ago, jonpais said:

@wolf33d did not say 4K 60p 10-bit 4:2:2 internal. He just said 4K 60p. In fact, he specifically noted 10-bit 4:2:2 would be external only.

He said, "The A7S3 has no reason to exist if it is 4k30p like a7III yet cost 1000 more". Did that imply 10 bit, 8 bit, internal or external. I see not mention of him saying 4K 60p. He is saying he won't buy it if it doesn't have it, and I agree, but to be 4K 60p, 10 bit internal, I doubt it.

[Robert Collins]

I think the headline 'tech feature' of the A7siii will be the 'virtual global shutter' that can be created by a BSI stacked CMOS sensor (rather like th A9's ability to shoot 20fps, silently with no rolling shutter.) Now I realize that really most people here just want 4k/60 and 10 bit output om an A7iii and dont really want to pay a huge premium for the 'virtual global shutter'. I am sure some film makers will be very excited about it though.

For instance here is the DOP of the new top gun movie talking about the Venice sensor 'Another being the effective global shutter of the Venice (I'm still confused as to how it's not a "global shutter", but also not a "rolling shutter", but whatever weird techiness lies behind it, it's effectively a global shutter (I tried an insane wobble test on one, and there's zero perceivable skew - so as far as I'm concerned it's a global shutter).' 

To some extent I think that many people already have a replacement in the A7sii - namely the A7iii (at a bargain price.) I am sure that Sony thinks that gives them license to show off their sensor tech in the A7s3 at a premium price point.

[jonpais]

12 hours ago, wolf33d said:

WOOOW

https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr3-a7siii-to-be-announced-at-ibc-2018-on-sept-14/

We all know this site is BS but please make this real. 
"Very likely:
– New 5.6 million dot EVF
– 4k60p
– 10 bit 4:2:2 external (not internal!)
– new color science
– dual SD card slot, Z-battery, chunkier grip

Unconfirmed:
– New 24 Megapixel Quad pixel sensor"

Again, WOOW. 24mpx 4K60P with FS5II color science +5.6M dot EVF + all A7RIII improvements (including AF, battery...) + 10 bit external (well nice to have but not for me this one) is a dream come true.... The 24mpx means I do not need a A7III for stills, and it means 1.5x crop video mode with 1 button. MAKE THIS REAL.
It will be 3000/3200 like the previous one for sure but fuck that, happily paying 1K more for an A7III with better color, 4K60P, 10bit external, and better EVF. Hopefully 240fps FHD too... 

Come on Sony do not disappoint. 

@webrunner5

He says so not once, but twice.

[webrunner5]

17 minutes ago, jonpais said:

I do!

So you want to Have to run around with a external recorder on a small package that would be a big ass package. Why buy a little ass camera to do that. What Gimbal you going to use doing that? A 2500 dollar Freefly MōVI M5? You have defeated the purpose of using a small package. Make it like the PK4. and you don't Need a external recorder.

6 minutes ago, jonpais said:

@webrunner5

He says so not once, but twice.

And then the Sony Rumor site says it's a bullshit rumor! Because it probably is. Wishing and getting is two different things.

[jonpais]

6 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

So you want to Have to run around with a external recorder on a small package that would be a big ass package. Why buy a little ass camera to do that. What Gimbal you going to use doing that? A 2500 dollar Freefly MōVI M5? You have defeated the purpose of using a small package. Make it like the PK4. and you don't Need a external recorder.

And then he says it's a bullshit rumor!

C’mon, Don. Nobody will need an external recorder for 60p if rumors turn out to be correct.

[webrunner5]

2 minutes ago, jonpais said:

C’mon, Don. Nobody will need an external recorder for 60p if rumors are true. 

I bet if you want 10 bit you will Need a recorder. Why even buy it. Put a Speedbooster on the PK4 and you are damn near FF for a lot less money. And I would argue a better output probably. You don't really need AF and IBIS do you. And it has push AF. You aren't that old yet are you LoL.

[jonpais]

18 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

I bet if you want 10 bit you will Need a recorder. Why even buy it. Put a Speedbooster on the PK4 and you are damn near FF for a lot less money. And I would argue a better output probably. You don't really need AF and IBIS do you. And it has push AF. You aren't that old yet are you LoL.

Fuck it with the age comments.

First of all, we’re not comparing the P4K to the a7s III, are we?

One will be a state-of-the-art hybrid camera with reliable continuous autofocus, long battery life and IBIS; the other is a cinema camera. 

And we’ve said repeatedly that you’ll most likely need an external recorder for 10-bit. 

Not a fan of adapters on mirrorless.

Why are we going so far afield? The camera may very well have 60p internal. Does anyone feel threatened by that?

[webrunner5]

21 minutes ago, jonpais said:

First of all, we’re not comparing the P4K to the a7s III, are we?

One will be a state-of-the-art hybrid camera with reliable continuous autofocus, long battery life and IBIS; the other is a cinema camera. 

I do want AF and IBIS.

And we’ve said repeatedly that you’ll most likely need an external recorder for 10-bit. 

Throwing a focal reducer on a crop sensor camera may give you the same field of view of s35 or FF and make lenses faster, but that’s all. Anyhow, not a fan of adapters on mirrorless.

Why are we going so far afield? The camera may very well have 60p internal. Does anyone feel threatened by that?

No I don't feel threatened at all. I probably are not going to buy either one. The Sony will be too damn expensive and replaced in a year by a cheaper model that does 90% of what it does so why bother. And I don't think I like the look of the output on the PH4, at least not as of yet. But I would bet it is a better film making machine for a hell of a lot less money. And don't give me that adapter crap. Sony doesn't have a native lens worth a shit for video other than 2 Cine lenses that we would have to win the Lotto to buy, even thorough they are sort of a bargain. And any adopted Cine lens is not going to have OIS or AF in it, other than those 2 Nice Sony Cine lenses..

Sure it will be a damn good camera, but it isn't going to be as great now I think for it's intended target audience like the original A7s was. I don't need all that wiz bang stuff for video. The original BMPCC makes it look like sort of weak, and it has about 3 help aids on the whole camera  But other than low light it has a better output. Is the BMPCC a pain in the ass to use, sure. But video IS a pain in the ass no matter what you have.

This PK4 is making all these camera company's look like they are ripping our ass off on cost. And I think they are if this new A7s is 3500 bucks, and the Nikon Z7 will be just as bad, along with the new Canon high end one.. If they cost that much they had better be the best thing since sliced bread.

[jonpais]

8 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

No I don't feel threatened at all. I probably are not going to buy either one. The Sony will be too damn expensive and replaced in a year by a cheaper model that does 90% of what it does so why bother. And I don't think I like the look of the output on the PH4, at least not as of yet. But I would bet it is a better film making machine for a hell of a lot less money. And don't give me that adapter crap. Sony doesn't have a native lens worth a shit for video other than 2 Cine lenses that we would have to win the Lotto to buy, even thorough they are sort of a bargain. And any adopted Cine lens is not going to have OIS or AF in it, other than those 2 Nice Sony Cine lenses..

Sure it will be a damn good camera, but it isn't going to be as great now I think for it's intended target audience like the original A7s was. I don't need all that wiz bang stuff for video. The original BMPCC makes it look like sort of weak, and it has about 3 help aids on the whole camera  But other than low light it has a better output. Is the BMPCC a pain in the ass to use, sure. But video IS a pain in the ass no matter what you have.

This PK4 is making all these camera company's look like they are ripping our ass off on cost. And I think they are if this new A7s is 3500 bucks, and the Nikon Z7 will be just as bad, along with the new Canon high end one.. If they cost that much they had better be the best thing since sliced bread.

TLDR; we were discussing 4K 60p internal. 

[newfoundmass]

It feels like they have to have 60p internally but at the same time I am skeptical as to how successfully it will be implemented. 

I do think though that the A7iii, with most if not all of the video centric features that you'd have expected from the A7Siii, was probably priced at $2000 for a reason. Makes me think that they'll price the A7Siii at an even higher premium given how much they gave people for less in the A7iii. 

[jonpais]

14 hours ago, wolf33d said:

WOOOW

https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr3-a7siii-to-be-announced-at-ibc-2018-on-sept-14/

We all know this site is BS but please make this real. 
"Very likely:
– New 5.6 million dot EVF
– 4k60p
– 10 bit 4:2:2 external (not internal!)
– new color science
– dual SD card slot, Z-battery, chunkier grip

Unconfirmed:
– New 24 Megapixel Quad pixel sensor"

Again, WOOW. 24mpx 4K60P with FS5II color science +5.6M dot EVF + all A7RIII improvements (including AF, battery...) + 10 bit external (well nice to have but not for me this one) is a dream come true.... The 24mpx means I do not need a A7III for stills, and it means 1.5x crop video mode with 1 button. MAKE THIS REAL.
It will be 3000/3200 like the previous one for sure but fuck that, happily paying 1K more for an A7III with better color, 4K60P, 10bit external, and better EVF. Hopefully 240fps FHD too... 

Come on Sony do not disappoint. 

My bad - he repeats it three times.

[Django]

BSI stacked quad pixel sensor?.. that does sound expensive..a bit of a stretch too tbh but if someone can make a jaw-dropping sensor it's Sony!

Getting close to global shutter would be absolutely amazing and worth the extra cash imo.

[Laurier]

Full frame sensors are more expensive to manufacture and need more heat dissipation, to get 10 bit internal they would need to make the body bigger I believe.

I m fine with external recording, you can shoulder mount the camera at the shoulder level, shoot with autofocus and have a the recorder at eye level.

That still lighter and more compact than a fs5/fs7, plus you get Ibis and autofocus and the large sensor look.

I would rather use my current a7rii over a fs5 any day, so I will be happy with the a7siii for sure.

For 4000/4200$ (a7siii+ atomos V) we will probably get a full frame 4k 60fps 10 bit pro-res full frame camera, the closest thing that does that is the new mavo LF and it s 11k.

Honestly I hardly see any other camera system more indi-user friendly/high quality for the money.

 

[jonpais]

FF mirrorless wars come right on the heels of the LF cinema camera battle.