Panasonic Teases New Compact Cinema Camera

[Fritz Pierre]

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

Problem is DR just sucks ass, and low light is nothing to write home about with m4/3 sensors. I think it would be a mistake to make it that sensor size on their part. My AF100A is Only between 10.1 to 10.3 on the DR part in reality. That is pretty damn terrible. And the newer ones are not really any better.  Not counting the crop factor problem. I sure as hell would not pay 4 to 5 grand for that kind of performance in this day and age. And I bet I am not alone.

Now making it like the JVC, well I guess it would work. Might be patents involved. Hmm, we shall see as they say!

So maybe I did not state clearly in my post, but I suggested a S35 mm sensor on a m4/3 mount for shallow flange distance that can adapt all lenses essentially and then the camera could CROP just like it does in ex tele convert in GH cameras...I don't think the af100 did this but even my GH2 did...so the camera has it's s35 sensor as does an Arri or Sony f35 etc....But it can also crop in camera...be it for use with m4/3 lenses or to s35 with 16mm lenses...Panasonic has been using this technology for years...so you'd get the DR when you're shooting in s35 but also the usability of m4/3 lenses in that crop...the mount merely makes other glass adaptable...to my thinking a no brainer...others advocated the same thing on this forum...what Panny does remains to be seen...but if they did this, Sony and Canon would have some real competition and I would guess the camera is more than 4 to 5K...

and lastly I doubt that this is a patent issue held by JVC as certain Sony FF dslr's also do a 35mm crop in video as an option in addition to FF...really old technology by today's standards...the m4/3 mount is no Impedement to a s35 sensor though

[Kisaha]

@webrunner5 We obviously talk about a variable sensor, not a m43 one. I do not own or have any m43 glass or cameras while I have a lot of different lenses for different mounts, I just express the versatility of such a thing, and why not, but use some m43 glass too (even though we use EF lenses with LS300 right now!) with a smaller, and all around camera like the GH5, or other.

I thought that JVC is owned by Panasonic by the way, and I do not think that having a sensor, and take parts of it is copyrighted or whatever!

That would be an obvious upgrade for a lot of m43 users that started video productions with the GH series cameras, and would help (or at least support and defend) their native sales too. 

[webrunner5]

Well I don't even think it is a m4/3 sensor in it unless Sigma just decided to build a one off Art lens for Panny. I don't see why it would be more than a Canon MkII. They are like 4400 bucks now at B&H. They sure as heck are not going to sell one for more money than that camera unless it has some groundbreaking tech in it. Any more than that, Sony FS5 territory. I have a bad feeling this thing is going to be a Hell of a lot of money. If it doesn't have a m4/3 mount, which I doubt, what the hell lenses you suppose to use on it LoL.

But I would even think it is going to have to be cheaper than the C100 mkII to compete with a proven product with Canon Color Science, DPAF and damn good High ISO's, unless it is some crazy cheaper Varicam, and I really doubt that happening. But it might be one. I don't think Panasonic is selling half as many Varicams as they had hoped for.

Goofy thing to me is why they didn't introduce this thing before the GH5. If it is a really nice camera, for a reasonable price a lot of people are going to be pissed that they just bought a GH5. Seems like a stupid move to piss off your loyal customers?

And no, Panasonic does not own JVC anymore. Not for 5 years it looks like.

https://techcrunch.com/2012/01/06/panasonic-jvc-kenwood/

[Kisaha]

@webrunner5 It's good to know, too bad I missed an opportunity to buy some shares, I could influence the production of a LS500! In my mind, the whole LS300 project is the more impressive if JVC created this very interesting little camcorder completely on their own.

Canon mkII is an amazing workhorse of a camera, but except dual pixel AF has nothing groundbreaking in it, the aforementioned LS300 has more groundbreaking features (like variable sensor, prime zoom function, various streaming video capabilities and a few more) than the C100 series.

Canon is starting to age, the industry moves to 10bit workflows, HDR, need more frame rates, and 35Mbps (even though they seem like a much more robust bitrate) doesn't cut it in 2017. People already start talking about 8K, and C100 has not even has any 4K. Even if only had the internals of the GH5 and a few more, then it would already be more interesting than the C100.

We discussed this before, GH5 is a video orientated mirrorless camera, has nothing to do with an entry level cinema camera, they are vastly different markets. I can't see someone that just gave 1999$ for the GH5 and use his old 12-35 2.8f lens and his old batteries, to worry that much for a 6000$ camera that probably can match with the 6000$ 18-80 CN-E and have a killer combo for most things. Although, I can see the opposite to be more possible, someone that just gave 12.000$ for his new Panasonic and CN-E, can easier spend 2500 for a nice kit that can use as a B cam, and his personal all arounder.

This seems like the sensor incorporated on the JVC http://www.altasens.com/images/AL41410C-PF0476-10.pdf It is really interesting to see these frame rates and resolutions in 2014.

[webrunner5]

Main problem with the LS300 is the funky EVF and the flimsy LCD. I have no clue why they did that. I mean how much would that have cost to beef up! Stupid.

With the newer firmware updates and the price having dropped a lot, yeah it is maybe the best bargain out there if you are not going to beat it to death.    Maybe even better than a GH5 for production work. Heck it is now only  $2,595.00 at B&H.

[ssrdd]

On 4/25/2017 at 2:06 AM, AaronChicago said:

The Varicam LT sensor for 4999 would be amazing.

with dual ISO

[ade towell]

dvxuser source has added

"The info I have says this wont be a particular innovative camera. It's more a mix of already existing functions and features. Plain vanilla these days at a decent price. Look upon it as a competitor to the FS5 or C100 MKII with the added 4k functionality compared to the C100 MKII. The camera will use Panasonics 10-bit codec and a Sony sensor specially made for Panasonic."

was hoping for but not expecting the Varicam sensor...

[BTM_Pix]

On 27/04/2017 at 4:56 AM, webrunner5 said:

Main problem with the LS300 is the funky EVF

Funky, as in do bears funky in the woods.

I always reserve judgment when I read reviews from people that say the EVF on x,y or z camera is terrible until I've tried it myself as I don't usually find them as bad as people make them out to be, relative to budget expectation anyway.

I won't be doing that again after the LS300!

I thought my eyes were broken.

[Fritz Pierre]

Can't see this camera under $5000...so no issue with GH5 buyers...the difference between spending say $2000 and 5000, is the difference between buying a camera or not...and that goes for most GH5 buyers...there are however a lot of GH5 buyers who recognized the completely ridiculous value they got in the GH5 for $2000...those who have never shot on a GH4, would not!...it suits their work needs so why not...you could shoot a low budget feature with it providing you have producer control, but this next camera will be better suited for that....not in terms of image, but in terms of usability....though the GH series cameras are easy to operate, nothing beats the simplicity of an Arri/Varicam style camera for shooting day in and day out....12 to 16 hours a day and repeat for 6 weeks or more....oh....and m4/3 mount on variable s35 sensor is of course the answer to everybody's lens needs....and it will probably have no EVF....so you can pair it with any number of 3rd party EVF's too...the Varicam is equally modular...

[Cinegain]

You can't just put the GH5 into a bigger body, slap a huge price on it and call it a day. I mean, you have the XLR unit for on top of your GH5 now and can use the Aputure DEC vND EF-mount as well. BOOM! Done. They also can't create a Varicam LT with the exact same specs in half the size and price.

But to give it some proper production value the S35 is just about a must. It will especially help to more easily get some great dynamic range and lovely colors going for it, the thing we all expect to see out of a camera like that. Of course, it would also be one less reason for people to look at other cameras that are in fact S35, which kinda is the production standard. Should help with the crop and in turn to easier establish a shallower depth of field as well I guess (nice with S35/APS-C lenses, but I do see an issue here if it does in fact come with a native EF-mount, because... how are we supposed to speedboost fullframe lenses then??? So yeah, seems to me it makes more sense to bring out cameras with the shallowest mount possible for most flexibilty, E-mount would be ideal here, since that even adapts MFT, but you know...).

So... I think dynamic range & color science is what people will really appreciate. Other than that, just to have something that's all-in-1 and covers the basic conveniences such as ND filters (evND?), XLR interface, more controls, awesome flip-out screen, long battery life, ability to run it offa external power, things like that. No more frankensteining with little cages and coldshoe mounts, external monitors, magic arms, ballheads and cable jungle. Just drop it on a tripod and hit record. Speaking of which... for a recording media it might be interesting to pull a Videodevices on this... see, they have the PIX-E5 recorder and use a so-called 'SpeedDrive'. They will sell you empty enclosures which house a mSATA drive and functions as a USB3.0 thumbdrive. You can buy like a Samsung 850 EVO 250GB mSATA drive for about 100,-. You'd just pop it in your camera and once you're done: fuzzless and speedy offloading onto a computer. The mentioned Samsung mSATA drive is rated at 520MB/s writespeed. Should be no problem for high-bitrate recording anything I imagine. Concerning that, I'm guessing this will write away files similar to the GH5, but can do it all internally. So... you get that 4:2:2 10-bit 60p at 400Mbps and FHD slow-mo at up to 180fps. The big difference? It would additionally support RAW output to an external recorder, though it would of course be great if they could manage that internally or give us internal ProRes. Just... probably not.

Anyways. Legit reasons to get one, but no groundbreaking ones. It wouldn't really be innovative or do mind-boggling things. But it would be a superb step-up for people with GH-range cameras. Because that's always been the question... where do you go from a GH-camera? But then it all comes down to pricing... they're not suddenly going to sell a ton of these if they're exactly in the range of Blackmagic/Sony/Canon/Kinefinity/2nd hand RED/etc... these are systems that will get you far north of $5k, more like 10k once you're fully configured and accessorized. If it does nothing that hasn't been done before... why bother at all? That's where the price comes in. If you're a small production house, maybe just a single dude or dudette doing his/her thing, 10k is quite a stretch to up your productions from the GH5 to something with a little more oomph. It's far more likely to get people looking for a step-up from their GH-range camera interested in something like a JVC GY-LS300 or something 2nd hand perhaps. But... if you can get a camera as described above... for a little bit more than say the launchprice of the LS300 or DVX200, so perhaps 4995,- then I forsee a bright future for it.

So for me, I'd be pretty stoked to see, whilst being fairly realistic about it:

• S35 sensor with great dynamic range and color science
• a fairly compact professional body with ND filters, XLR interface, plenty of controls and easy navigation/menus
• GH5 resolution/framerates, all capable of being recorded internally
• RAW output
• $4999

Like an AG-AF100 successor with 2017-like Panasonic specs. A mash-up of things I like about the JVC LS300 & Panasonic DVX200/GH5/AF100. Not a hardcore cinema camera, more something to use as a production camera, where the GH5 would start to feel a little out of its element. Still great options with the GH5, though. And it does have that 5-axis B.I.S. and all that good stuff that makes it the most perfect B-cam. They should compliment eachother rather well.

Should this come in at 6999-9999, well... tough...

[webrunner5]

Couldn't say it much better Cinegain.

[Fritz Pierre]

2 hours ago, Cinegain said:

You can't just put the GH5 into a bigger body, slap a huge price on it and call it a day. I mean, you have the XLR unit for on top of your GH5 now and can use the Aputure DEC vND EF-mount as well. BOOM! Done. They also can't create a Varicam LT with the exact same specs in half the size and price.

But to give it some proper production value the S35 is just about a must. It will especially help to more easily get some great dynamic range and lovely colors going for it, the thing we all expect to see out of a camera like that. Of course, it would also be one less reason for people to look at other cameras that are in fact S35, which kinda is the production standard. Should help with the crop and in turn to easier establish a shallower depth of field as well I guess (nice with S35/APS-C lenses, but I do see an issue here if it does in fact come with a native EF-mount, because... how are we supposed to speedboost fullframe lenses then??? So yeah, seems to me it makes more sense to bring out cameras with the shallowest mount possible for most flexibilty, E-mount would be ideal here, since that even adapts MFT, but you know...).

So... I think dynamic range & color science is what people will really appreciate. Other than that, just to have something that's all-in-1 and covers the basic conveniences such as ND filters (evND?), XLR interface, more controls, awesome flip-out screen, long battery life, ability to run it offa external power, things like that. No more frankensteining with little cages and coldshoe mounts, external monitors, magic arms, ballheads and cable jungle. Just drop it on a tripod and hit record. Speaking of which... for a recording media it might be interesting to pull a Videodevices on this... see, they have the PIX-E5 recorder and use a so-called 'SpeedDrive'. They will sell you empty enclosures which house a mSATA drive and functions as a USB3.0 thumbdrive. You can buy like a Samsung 850 EVO 250GB mSATA drive for about 100,-. You'd just pop it in your camera and once you're done: fuzzless and speedy offloading onto a computer. The mentioned Samsung mSATA drive is rated at 520MB/s writespeed. Should be no problem for high-bitrate recording anything I imagine. Concerning that, I'm guessing this will write away files similar to the GH5, but can do it all internally. So... you get that 4:2:2 10-bit 60p at 400Mbps and FHD slow-mo at up to 180fps. The big difference? It would additionally support RAW output to an external recorder, though it would of course be great if they could manage that internally or give us internal ProRes. Just... probably not.

Anyways. Legit reasons to get one, but no groundbreaking ones. It wouldn't really be innovative or do mind-boggling things. But it would be a superb step-up for people with GH-range cameras. Because that's always been the question... where do you go from a GH-camera? But then it all comes down to pricing... they're not suddenly going to sell a ton of these if they're exactly in the range of Blackmagic/Sony/Canon/Kinefinity/2nd hand RED/etc... these are systems that will get you far north of $5k, more like 10k once you're fully configured and accessorized. If it does nothing that hasn't been done before... why bother at all? That's where the price comes in. If you're a small production house, maybe just a single dude or dudette doing his/her thing, 10k is quite a stretch to up your productions from the GH5 to something with a little more oomph. It's far more likely to get people looking for a step-up from their GH-range camera interested in something like a JVC GY-LS300 or something 2nd hand perhaps. But... if you can get a camera as described above... for a little bit more than say the launchprice of the LS300 or DVX200, so perhaps 4995,- then I forsee a bright future for it.

So for me, I'd be pretty stoked to see, whilst being fairly realistic about it:

• S35 sensor with great dynamic range and color science
• a fairly compact professional body with ND filters, XLR interface, plenty of controls and easy navigation/menus
• GH5 resolution/framerates, all capable of being recorded internally
• RAW output
• $4999

Like an AG-AF100 successor with 2017-like Panasonic specs. A mash-up of things I like about the JVC LS300 & Panasonic DVX200/GH5/AF100. Not a hardcore cinema camera, more something to use as a production camera, where the GH5 would start to feel a little out of its element. Still great options with the GH5, though. And it does have that 5-axis B.I.S. and all that good stuff that makes it the most perfect B-cam. They should compliment eachother rather well.

Should this come in at 6999-9999, well... tough...

+ 1 on all except the idea that Panasonic would put Sony's emount instead of their own M4/3 mount on the camera...Sony and Panasonic seems to be in competition with each other....so why use your competitors mount...whereas the EF or PL mount on the Varicam made sense from a business standpoint, if I was Panasonic I would also want to sell some of their native lenses like the new Leica primes or zooms with it...and you are probably right in price range...and it's probably on the higher end of your range

[Cinegain]

Hence the 'but you know...', you know.  Though the argument for a native EF mount is pretty weak and mine was more illustrating the fact a shallower mount is more flexible. Now we even have Kinefinity releasing an E-mount adapter for their system, you know. Not sure if the diameter of the MFT imposes a restriction on lenses that even do cover APS-C, but anyways, there's very shallow adapters for m4/3 - E-mount, non exist the other way around... so, that's still a thing.

[dbp]

On 4/25/2017 at 4:24 PM, hijodeibn said:

I can see the jaw falling in most of the GH5 early adopters….

I don't see it that way. To me, they are entirely different products and Panasonic should always have both in their arsenal. GH5 is much smaller to carry around. Handy for certain situations. Not to mention some of us actually rely on taking stills with our GH4/GH5s, shocking as that may seem!

Larger camera is more appropriate for other situations. Honestly I would want both if I could afford. Especially if they matched in look easily.

[AaronChicago]

52 minutes ago, dbp said:

I don't see it that way. To me, they are entirely different products and Panasonic should always have both in their arsenal. GH5 is much smaller to carry around. Handy for certain situations. Not to mention some of us actually rely on taking stills with our GH4/GH5s, shocking as that may seem!

Larger camera is more appropriate for other situations. Honestly I would want both if I could afford. Especially if they matched in look easily.

For sure. I like the idea of a Panasonic Cine cam, but I wouldn't buy it over a GH5 for my needs. I think the Panny Cine Cam plus GH5 would be a good combo.

[Fritz Pierre]

1 hour ago, Cinegain said:

Hence the 'but you know...', you know.  Though the argument for a native EF mount is pretty weak and mine was more illustrating the fact a shallower mount is more flexible. Now we even have Kinefinity releasing an E-mount adapter for their system, you know. Not sure if the diameter of the MFT imposes a restriction on lenses that even do cover APS-C, but anyways, there's very shallow adapters for m4/3 - E-mount, non exist the other way around... so, that's still a thing.

No...an m4/3 mount will cover the sensor...difficult to see them supporting the EF mount...especially if they're going after the 100-300 series canons and the Sony fs series...I thought your article on what the camera should/might be spot on...and I agree on price....people are dreaming if they think a 4000 camera.... but what Panasonic will do, as they did with the Varicam, is they'll blast completely past the price point on the camera image wise...as they did with the Varicam LT...Panny seems to take a longer view with their cameras...

[PannySVHS]

On 25.4.2017 at 0:13 AM, AaronChicago said:

I've actually been using the Ursa Mini 4.6K for about a year now. I love it. I did trade my GH4 for GH5 as a B Cam.

 

Oh, I thought you also bought a FS700 plus Odyssey and was looking forward to hear your thoughts about that combo. So, looking forward to your GH5 footage then, if

its as awesome as your c100 and GH4 Vlog footage. Maybe you´re in the market for a real Varicam camera too, that brandnew beautiful Varicam mini for 4999USD

[Fritz Pierre]

19 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

  On 4/24/2017 at 5:13 PM, AaronChicago said:

I've actually been using the Ursa Mini 4.6K for about a year now. I love it. I did trade my GH4 for GH5 as a B Cam.

Still think you should do a small comparison between the GH5 and the Ursa 4.6k..if you find yourself with a bit of spare time??...even if just comparing footage you've shot with both...I remember your early footage you posted shooting with the 12-35 and the GH4 and it was lovely...

[Jonesy Jones]

I was at NAB and I spent some time looking through, or trying to look through, the cloth that was draped over the mystery camera. Here's what I can pretty confidently say.

1. It has an ND wheel. Well, it has a wheel, and it's right where the ND wheel would be. Could've been Iris/Gain I guess. EDIT: the wheel that I saw was located similarly and resembled the ND/Iris wheel on the FS5. Thus, I assumed it was an ND wheel. However, the LT has a wheel in the same location, but it's an Iris wheel, and it's ND wheel is on the very front. But the wheel I saw did not look like the one on the LT, more like the one on the FS5.
2. It has 2 built in XLR's and physical trimmers, both accessible from the rear of the unit. 
3. It has at least 2 physical toggle switches, like the switches on the UMPro or the other cameras from the Varicam line.
4. It has 6 threaded mounting points on the top, in addition to the ones being used/covered by the handle. 

Seems like they borrowed some from the Varicam line for the body design. Let's hope some of the internals were borrowed too.

I prodded the rep. It's definitely priced under $9K. If I had to guess I'd say no higher than $6K. 

[mercer]

Yeah, I think anything over $5000 would be a big blunder by Panasonic. I think it will be between $4000 and $4500.