Panasonic Teases New Compact Cinema Camera

[webrunner5]

5 minutes ago, Fritz Pierre said:

Agreed...I actually much prefer the look of a handheld heavy camera over a gimbal...or of course a skilled steady cam operator...when I fantasize about the LT, I think more about the rest....the support gear...like my 22lb Miller head on a 75 

mm bowl will probably not cut it??....so in addition to the 20,000 ++ Varicam package I'd have to also factor in a $5000 Cartoni or something...but what a joy this camera would be....and everyone says if you get the Panny sliding shoulder pad, the camera balances so well that you can practically let go of it???ahhh....desire will be the death of me!

Yeah you are Not going to get by using a 75mm Bowl. 100mm or More! 75 is sort of a stretch for my AF100 rigged with a B4 lens on it. I just bought a Manfrotto 100mm Bowl for it a few days ago. Hell, it's Only Money!

[Fritz Pierre]

3 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Yeah you are Not going to get by using a 75mm Bowl. 100mm or More! 75 is sort of a stretch for my AF100 rigged with a B4 lens on it. I just bought a Manfrotto 100mm Bowl for it a few days ago.

Adapter or legs?

I find the give is in the head....I could squeak by with the Varicam LT rigged lightly....don't move the camera a lot...but definitely at the end of the stretch 

[Kisaha]

It is easier to buy an expensive car, than run the costs of it. Servicing, fuel, insurance, taxes, etc

That applies to everything, in my opinion (and experience) everything in the workflow is important. Especially with tripods, you can't cheat, there are no very cheap Chinese ones, and you can't buy smaller if you don't want to harm your usability, I learned that the hard way (it is always hard!) a dozen years ago.

[IronFilm]

On 5/9/2017 at 1:57 AM, mercer said:

Multi million dollar productions don't need Raw because they have so much other budgetary freedoms. It's us indie filmmakers that need every little bit of IQ help we can get.

If you're a small indie production then you have an even smaller post production budget than the big boys.... so raw makes even less sense!

12 hours ago, Kisaha said:

It is easier to buy an expensive car, than run the costs of it. Servicing, fuel, insurance, taxes, etc

That applies to everything, in my opinion (and experience) everything in the workflow is important. Especially with tripods, you can't cheat, there are no very cheap Chinese ones, and you can't buy smaller if you don't want to harm your usability, I learned that the hard way (it is always hard!) a dozen years ago.

I dunno, these cheap chinese tripod seems pretty good:

https://www.came-tv.com/collections/video-tripod

 

 

[Kisaha]

http://www.panasonicforbusiness.com/2017/04/andrij-parekh-13-reasons-why/

and I quote:  "Parekh captured UHD (3849 x 2160) AVC Intra 444 files to expressP2 cards. “Most of our audience are probably going to watch the show on their iPhones or iPads, or maybe a television at home. The AVC Intra codec’s resolution was perfect for broadcast, and it didn’t require massive data storage.”

..I do not consider 13 reasons why as a low budget production, at least not in the sense they are discussed here.

I didn't watch the review, but a tripod has to be proven through time, I do not know these specific ones, but I have used most of the best Chinese brands, and only some certain Benro are ok. I have seen Miller tripods fallen apart, I wouldn't trust a dodgy one called "Came - TV"!

Most of the "great" Chinese ones work amazingly well for a few months, but when they start acting, then you just throw them away (Secced, some Benro even).

I rather give 1000$ more for the real thing, and keep it for a dozen years, than save 1000$ and keep it for 16months. Also, the head movement is very expensive. Good Cartoni and Sachtler are absolutely fantastic, even with heavy equipment and rigging. I am not a great fun of Miller (because I have 2 very bad experiences with 3-5000$ combos) but I have used some great Compass ones.

[mercer]

4 hours ago, IronFilm said:

If you're a small indie production then you have an even smaller post production budget than the big boys.... so raw makes even less sense!

I dunno, these cheap chinese tripod seems pretty good:

https://www.came-tv.com/collections/video-tripod

 

 

So if you were shooting a no budget indie feature on a BMPCC/BMMCC today, you would shoot it on ProRes instead of Raw? It's like someone else wrote on another thread. Most productions shot in 4K are either big budget or extremely low budget.

[Fritz Pierre]

2 hours ago, Kisaha said:

I am not a great fun of Miller (because I have 2 very bad experiences with 3-5000$ combos) but I have used some great Compass ones.

That's curious...I have a Miller D20 head and it works flawlessly....I'm not on Miller legs though... and at around 19lbs with a big lens which starts to push the 22lb limit...there's some flex in the head just above where the head goes into the bowl, but for how I shoot it's not noticable at all...I did decide that if I ever got the Varicam LT though, I'd have to add a Crtoni with 100mm bowl...fully rigged with heavy glass it could easily get to the 25 lb+ level...my VCT-14 plate alone weighs 2lbs...

[Kisaha]

Just now, Fritz Pierre said:

That's curious...I have a Miller D20 head and it works flawlessly....I'm not on Miller legs though... and at around 19lbs with a big lens which starts to push the 22lb limit...there's some flex in the head just above where the head goes into the bowl, but for how I shoot it's not noticable at all...I did decide that if I ever got the Varicam LT though, I'd have to add a Crtoni with 100mm bowl...fully rigged with heavy glass it could easily get to the 25 lb+ level...my VCT-14 plate alone weighs 2lbs...

The truth is, the legs failed, but miserably, on brand new sets. The one when we had a big job with the new (back then) C300 fully rigid for a short, it was really disappointing.

In general Miller is top notch, except those 2 occasions. Just have great experiences with Sachtler that I rent for so many years now, and they go as expected, really impressive. Sacthler legs on the small Chinese Aces fail as well but for the money that little head is great for dSLR/mirrorless, but even a C100mkII with a 70-200 is testing its limits (and fail most of the times).

It is not good to play with the limits of those, and well know brands are usually more truthful with their limits, unlike Chinese that declare whatever they want!

Most of the tripods are perfectly fine if you do NOT move them. But if you want to make some motion, then the good ones show their (price) range.

[Fritz Pierre]

2 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

The truth is, the legs failed, but miserably, on brand new sets. The one when we had a big job with the new (back then) C300 fully rigid for a short, it was really disappointing.

In general Miller is top notch, except those 2 occasions. Just have great experiences with Sachtler that I rent for so many years now, and they go as expected, really impressive. Sacthler legs on the small Chinese Aces fail as well but for the money that little head is great for dSLR/mirrorless, but even a C100mkII with a 70-200 is testing its limits (and fail most of the times).

It is not good to play with the limits of those, and well know brands are usually more truthful with their limits, unlike Chinese that declare whatever they want!

Most of the tripods are perfectly fine if you do NOT move them. But if you want to make some motion, then the good ones show their (price) range.

Have you used Cartoni?...it's all the local lighting gear supply guy carry where I live, here me leaning in that direction... 

[Kisaha]

1 hour ago, Fritz Pierre said:

Have you used Cartoni?...it's all the local lighting gear supply guy carry where I live, here me leaning in that direction... 

Not recently, no. For my next purchase (next year) I would like to look at Cartoni too.

Here the local shops are pushing Miller, Sachtler and Manfrotto, and as it is a very small market, whatever the big 3 shops push, fill the whole market. 

When I was starting my career there were a lot of Cartoni around (now they are too heavy, and I haven't seen any newer replacements of those).

I am not very excited with Miller. Sachtler FSB would be a safe bet, instead of Manfrotto I rather go Benro, so Cartoni would be nice to check.

I would be looking something at Sachtler FSB8 price (and features) range, if you have any propositions would be great!

[bunk]

6 hours ago, IronFilm said:

If you're a small indie production then you have an even smaller post production budget than the big boys.... so raw makes even less sense!

I disagree.
If you want to go wild in post, RAW is the only way to get access to good quality footage for small indie productions (5DmarkIII, bmpcc. With Mercer in mind maybe we should talk about small small indie productions ;)).
If you shoot with a pro camera you already have access to decent not completely fucked up footage by  poor debayering and/or compression and you can still go wild in post without tearing the footage apart.

[mercer]

26 minutes ago, bunk said:

I disagree.
If you want to go wild in post, RAW is the only way to get access to good quality footage for small indie productions (5DmarkIII, bmpcc. With Mercer in mind maybe we should talk about small small indie productions ;)).
If you shoot with a pro camera you already have access to decent not completely fucked up footage by  poor debayering and/or compression and you can still go wild in post without tearing the footage apart.

I think you forgot a few "smalls" ? But yes I completely agree with your statement. I don't mean to pat myself on the back here, but without shooting Raw on the 5D3, I never would have gotten an image close to what I've been getting. And when you're shooting completely guerilla style as a one man band... every little bit of IQ helps. For instance, I know this isn't the best image in the world, but I would never get this level of skin texture with an h.264 codec...

Even zoomed in, the actor's skin looks better than anything I've ever captured. 

So for someone like me, a shooter and colorist with a minimal amount of skills, and productions like mine, with a minimal amount of self-funding, to be able to do a minimal amount, or a simple but extensive amount of LUTS and still get an image that doesn't break proves just how effective Raw is for no budget productions. IMO. YMMV. 

[IronFilm]

On 5/11/2017 at 0:19 AM, Kisaha said:

http://www.panasonicforbusiness.com/2017/04/andrij-parekh-13-reasons-why/

and I quote:  "Parekh captured UHD (3849 x 2160) AVC Intra 444 files to expressP2 cards. “Most of our audience are probably going to watch the show on their iPhones or iPads, or maybe a television at home. The AVC Intra codec’s resolution was perfect for broadcast, and it didn’t require massive data storage.”

..I do not consider 13 reasons why as a low budget production, at least not in the sense they are discussed here.

Exactly, and if "13 Reasons" is not shooting raw then I also don't have to always shoot raw. 

 

[IronFilm]

On 5/11/2017 at 2:10 AM, mercer said:

So if you were shooting a no budget indie feature on a BMPCC/BMMCC today, you would shoot it on ProRes instead of Raw? It's like someone else wrote on another thread. Most productions shot in 4K are either big budget or extremely low budget.

Almost for certain I'd go for ProRes or some other similar but high quality compressed codec (such as AVC Intra). 

Had exactly this discussion too with a director that I was going to shoot a feature with (although that sadly hasn't happened yet, as his life went through a few upheavals out of the blue that he had to focus on first), he is a diehard raw fan! 

But when you are so very constrained with resources when it comes to time/money/people, then that little extra 1% gain from raw is just not worth it. 

So ProRes HQ it is! (was going to be shot with a mix of Sony PMW-F3 / BMPCC / BMCC, although we did for a little while have access to an F5 too)

Although we did kinda come to a compromise that on very very very rare occasions then we might shoot specific shots in raw instead, where we/he thought it would really benefit from raw for that shot.

 

 

[mercer]

29 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Almost for certain I'd go for ProRes or some other similar but high quality compressed codec (such as AVC Intra). 

Had exactly this discussion too with a director that I was going to shoot a feature with (although that sadly hasn't happened yet, as his life went through a few upheavals out of the blue that he had to focus on first), he is a diehard raw fan! 

But when you are so very constrained with resources when it comes to time/money/people, then that little extra 1% gain from raw is just not worth it. 

So ProRes HQ it is! (was going to be shot with a mix of Sony PMW-F3 / BMPCC / BMCC, although we did for a little while have access to an F5 too)

Although we did kinda come to a compromise that on very very very rare occasions then we might shoot specific shots in raw instead, where we/he thought it would really benefit from raw for that shot.

 

 

Haha, we are still talking about two different kind of no budget productions. The kind I am referring to has a budget of a grand, follows Dogme 96 rules, is literally a ONE MAN band production, from writing to shooting(I am the crew) and editing. If it takes an extra 20 hours to process the footage, it's my time.

So for me Raw makes sense... or a camcorder... LOL.

Seriously, I would shoot Raw but if I thought that would slow the production up too much, I'd shoot it on a bridge camera... 65mm or S16... LOL.

[DVP]

When I was at NAB the Panasonic guys teased that the camera will more than likely have an EF mount with a Super 35 sensor.  It's not going to be like the AF100 that was a GH camera in a semi-pro body.  The camera was under a semi-opaque cloth, but you could tell an un- adapted Canon mount lens was attached. A micro 4/3 mount and a somewhat bigger sensor does not compute.

 

It sounds like they're going after the Sony FS5 and perhaps are adding a few more features to compete.  The camera body looks to be cherry red, though it could be just to grab your attention while gawking at the prototype during trade shows. 

[ntblowz]

4 hours ago, mercer said:

Haha, we are still talking about two different kind of no budget productions. The kind I am referring to has a budget of a grand, follows Dogme 96 rules, is literally a ONE MAN band production, from writing to shooting(I am the crew) and editing. If it takes an extra 20 hours to process the footage, it's my time.

So for me Raw makes sense... or a camcorder... LOL.

Seriously, I would shoot Raw but if I thought that would slow the production up too much, I'd shoot it on a bridge camera... 65mm or S16... LOL.

Yeah that the thing, we are shooters with different purpose and mindset, I for one shoot for economical gain so having cost control/time management is important as well.  If I do stuff for hobby/interest where time is unlimited then shooting raw seems to be fine, but not if you have deadline due for the client which is a different story.

[mercer]

48 minutes ago, ntblowz said:

Yeah that the thing, we are shooters with different purpose and mindset, I for one shoot for economical gain so having cost control/time management is important as well.  If I do stuff for hobby/interest where time is unlimited then shooting raw seems to be fine, but not if you have deadline due for the client which is a different story.

Definitely. I almost think I should preface every opinion I have as... I'm a hobbyist with dreams and no real deadline. 

[BTM_Pix]

56 minutes ago, mercer said:

I'm a hobbyist with dreams and no real deadline. 

Often the best position to be in when it comes to creativity though isn't it?

Thats why most band's first albums are their best, because they wrote and perfected the songs without a clock or an accountant in the room.

[mercer]

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

Often the best position to be in when it comes to creativity though isn't it?

Thats why most band's first albums are their best, because they wrote and perfected the songs without a clock or an accountant in the room.

Yup all of their best material they have been honing for years shows up in their first album... if they can make a halfway decent sophomore attempt, they have a chance.