GH5 vs Ursa Mini 4.6K

[Hanriverprod]

15 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

you talking about the original GH5 grade, or his Ursa 4.6k grade? Sure I like the Usra 4.6 grade overall, but this is a gradable grade if that makes sense. The first one was a total crap shoot on the outcome if you were not there to visualize it I think.

And the lamp, that has probably more to do with a lack of DR than anything m4/3 sensors have sad to say.

I meant the original gh5 grade. The colors are a little garish but I think this lut is too flat for her skin. Maybe just tweak it a little and get some color back in her face?

edit: On second viewing, it does look better with the Kholi lut. I needed to look at them full screen.

If they gave the gh5 better highlight handling it would've been a done deal.

[webrunner5]

1 hour ago, Hanriverprod said:

I meant the original gh5 grade. The colors are a little garish but I think this lut is too flat for her skin. Maybe just tweak it a little and get some color back in her face?

Yeah I agree, I would not push this "out the door" as they say. But it a LOT better of a starting place than the original one. I like the upgrade on it. It is not a mile off like the first one.

But I was thinking earlier that his sort of look maybe more of the future look than you and I, we, might like. With 4k, 6k, 8k, out, well I just don't see the old school film look even being able to Be duplicated, hell maybe even desired by the younger crowd. We may be becoming a Dinosaur. A lot of young people may not know what a film look even is, or care. You have to remember a lot of them grew up as gamers, total Smartphone users! They really don't care about buttery smoothness, 24fps, they want 60fps or more, no choppy stuff, crystal clear clean output.

I live in a small College town of 12,000 people with a College that has 28,000 students. Miami of Ohio. I ate out tonight at a Sports Bar in Oxford, Ohio where I live, and where the College is. They had 22 42" TV's, all of them 4k, and they had like a 22" TV, maybe 19", I sat at the bar with my wife, they had a Good looking, young female Bartender , at Every booth,  and you could choose what YOU wanted to look at! Everyone of them seemed like they were on a smartphone, Apple Laptop yikes!, iPad etc. You think they give a crap about a Film look?? I Really doubt it. Our Goose is cooked down the road like it or not.

[Don Kotlos]

1 hour ago, AaronChicago said:

Kholi is creating a LUT for V Log. Here is the pre release version on this clip:

The highlights look better, but I actually prefer the skin tones of your (original) grade. 

[Hanriverprod]

8 minutes ago, Don Kotlos said:

The highlights look better, but I actually prefer the skin tones of your (original) grade. 

I was thinking that but when I saw them full screen I saw that the Kholi lut did preserve some color in her skin. I think maybe you just need to boost it up a little. The original is too harsh full res, full screen.

[dbp]

1 hour ago, Don Kotlos said:

The highlights look better, but I actually prefer the skin tones of your (original) grade. 

After looking at both full screen, I definitely agree with this. A little to lifeless in the kholi one.

[Don Kotlos]

1 hour ago, Hanriverprod said:

I was thinking that but when I saw them full screen I saw that the Kholi lut did preserve some color in her skin. I think maybe you just need to boost it up a little. The original is too harsh full res, full screen.

I adjusted the contrast with the curves for both GH5 versions and I warmed up the Kholi. It should be easy to tell them apart. Kholi's version is not bad but it looks too flat for my taste. I don't know @Hanriverprod, I think I still stand by my previous assessment that the original grade looks better and closer to the BM which should be the target when matching cameras. Maybe a better grade than mine can help, but then whats the point of using the LUT in the first place 

[TheRenaissanceMan]

I think the LUT is meant not to be a one click solution for grading, but rather to bring the GH5 to a neutral starting point from which to begin your grade.

[Don Kotlos]

1 minute ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

I think the LUT is meant not to be a one click solution for grading, but rather to bring the GH5 to a neutral starting point from which to begin your grade.

Yes but in the specific instance it should get the GH5 as close to the Ursa as possible since that is the neutral starting point, you match to your A cam. If you need grading on top of an LUT to get to the neutral starting point then you need a better LUT. 

[AaronChicago]

The problem that I ran into, as well as Kholi, is that you can make adjustments to match the UM46K for her (the actress) but some of the green/yellow stuff isn't possible to fix with one overall LUT. I tend to worry less about skin tones with a LUT b/c the face can be keyed or masked and adjusted. For Kholi's I was push her skin more toward magenta with a little more saturation.

[Inazuma]

@AaronChicago Thanks for the downloads of the ungraded files. They're nice to work with and I'm having no problems using them with Premiere Pro on Windows - albeit with one curiosity. The colour shifts when I play the videos in the timeline!

Again I must say the GH5 is comparing quite well. I do wonder if the light could have avoided being blown out if you'd underexposed a stop.

[webrunner5]

Well I don't think what ever you do the GH5 is not going to look like a Ursa 4.6. BM cameras have magic Pixie dust sprinkled on them LoL. They do know how to get a great look out of them. Panasonic has never done that, even with the Varicam 35.

This is what Panasonic Thinks a Varicam 35 is Suppose to look like output wise. 

 

And in it's own right it is very beautiful, very clean looking. But it is Not Filmic, it has a Digital camera look. This a really good video in my mind.  But I think down the road they are probably going to be right and the rest wrong, like I said in a post above. Young people like that look, no they Love that look.

But BM has the Filmic look, they have it in all their cameras, and I don't see how the backed in Varicam 35 Mojo, in the GH5, can be overcome. Maybe it doesn't need to be? I would sort of kill to have a camera with that look! Breathtaking video I think.

[Emanuel]

34 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Well I don't think what ever you do the GH5 is not going to look like a Ursa 4.6. BM cameras have magic Pixie dust sprinkled on them LoL. They do know how to get a great look out of them. Panasonic has never done that, even with the Varicam 35.

This is what Panasonic Thinks a Varicam 35 is Suppose to look like output wise. 

 

And in it's own right it is very beautiful, very clean looking. But it is Not Filmic, it has a Digital camera look. This a really good video in my mind.  But I think down the road they are probably going to be right and the rest wrong, like I said in a post above. Young people like that look, no they Love that look.

But BM has the Filmic look, they have it in all their cameras, and I don't see how the backed in Varicam 35 Mojo, in the GH5, can be overcome. Maybe it doesn't need to be?

Right. They don't even compare to Varicam though. There's no other similar capture device IMO. Arri stands below to my mileage eyes.

[AaronChicago]

1 hour ago, Inazuma said:

@AaronChicago Thanks for the downloads of the ungraded files. They're nice to work with and I'm having no problems using them with Premiere Pro on Windows - albeit with one curiosity. The colour shifts when I play the videos in the timeline!

Again I must say the GH5 is comparing quite well. I do wonder if the light could have avoided being blown out if you'd underexposed a stop.

Very possible. The GH5 handles shadows better than the GH4 from what I've seen so far.

[webrunner5]

14 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Right. They don't even compare to Varicam though. There's no other similar capture device IMO. Arri stands below to my mileage eyes.

Oh I agree. I love that video. That's why I posted it. I know a ton of people on here love the "Panasonic Look", or they would not be as popular as they are if we didn't.  I would not have a Panny AF100A, Panny G7 if I didn't like it. Hell Jon would be out of luck without his G85 LoL. A heck of a lot of us do like the Varicam 35 look.

But I am not sure I would trade a Arri Alexa for a Varicam 35.  Hmm, that may be a bridge too far. But I am older than you, not much, but I am. But they are 4k, and that is a big plus going forward for it.

Oh and that should say Baked in not Backed in on my above comment LoL..

[Emanuel]

15 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Oh I agree. I love that video. That's why I posted it. I know a ton of people on here love the "Panasonic Look", or they would not be as popular as they are if we didn't.  I would not have a Panny AF100A, Panny G7 if I didn't like it. Hell Jon would be out of luck without his G85 LoL. A heck of a lot of us do like the Varicam 35 look.

But I am not sure I would trade a Arri Alexa for a Varicam 35.  Hmm, that may be a bridge too far. But I am older than you. But they are 4k, and that is a big plus going forward for it.

LOL You're quicker than my edit, Don : ) Here's the remainder now:

LT version is supposed to offer same IQ. You know what? Try to find some other one to offer dual Native ISO (800/5000), can we?

That digital look you mean, I'd call it flexibility others such as Arri or Blackmagic simply don't have...

Acquisition means one sole thing: options@post. The more choices there the better digital camera.

 

[webrunner5]

9 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

LOL You're quicker than my edit, Don : ) Here's the remainder:

LT version is supposed to offer same IQ. You know what? Try to find some other one to offer dual Native ISO (800/5000), can we?

That digital look you mean, I'd call it flexibility others such as Arri or Blackmagic simply don't have...

Acquisition means one sole thing: options@post. The more choices there the better digital camera.

Oh I totally agree. If I was younger, starting over, and had a good amount of money, or a backer, that does happen at times, I would buy the Varicam 35 Any day over the Arri anytime to make a living shooting.

The Arri is really best at making full blown movies, not doing the day in, day out stuff, you have to shoot, to make a living doing whatever comes up. The Varicam is Way better suited for that, hands down. The GH5 beats any Sony right now, A7---, A6---- out right now all day to make a buck shooting. It is a workhorse just like a Varicam is. You are right.

If you want to make money for not a lot of money, buy a GH5 today. It is just that simple.

[dbp]

Panasonic used to be known for their mojo, in light of being technically inferior in some ways. I've found most of the Varicam stuff to be quite nice. Seems like RED and Arri are so established that the high end nut is hard to crack, as opposed to the Varicam not being up to the task. 

[Emanuel]

15 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Oh I totally agree. If I was younger, starting over, and had a good amount of money, or a backer, that does happen at times, I would buy the Varicam 35 Any day over the Arri anytime to make a living shooting.

The Arri is really best at making full blown movies, not doing the day in, day out stuff, you have to shoot, to make a living doing whatever comes up. The Varicam is Way better suited for that, hands down. The GH5 beats any Sony right now, A7---, A6---- out right now all day to make a buck shooting. It is a workhorse just like a Varicam is. You are right.

:-D I see my edits are impossible to follow your intrepid action/reaction hehe.

So, since I've based part of my background from hours, days, nights, years spent through Film Archive in Lisbon I believe we surely share some solid referrals in common : )

Very true that each pencil has its own trace. That's rather hard to steal it right out of the box.

The chances to mimic that later is what differs to my view.

That is, they simply are not at Varicam level in the same range to a certain extent.

 

[webrunner5]

12 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

:-D I see my edits are impossible to follow your intrepid action/reaction hehe.

So, since I've based part of my background from hours spent through Film Archive in Lisbon I believe we surely share some solid referrals in common ;-)

Very true that each pencil has its own trace. That's rather hard to steal it right out of the box. The chances to mimic that later is what differs to my view.  So, they simply are not at Varicam level in the same range to a certain extent.

 

Well this damn video shows how old I am for the first time I was in Lisbon! It says Rare Color Footage! Jesus Christ!!! Shit I feel old Lol. And yes I have been there, hell maybe I am in the video shot! I was probably that drunk guy in the Maze at the end!

What do you think, Super 8mm?? Might be 16mm?

 

[Emanuel]

17 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Well this damn video shows how old I am for the first time I was in Lisbon! It says Rare Color Footage! Jesus Christ!!! Shit I feel old Lol.

 

I beg to disagree. You are one of the youngster minds over here and I've ever met everywhere! ;-) BTW, only the car models have changed a bit along their design. You can't park there too. Some restrictions on pollution standards for the introduction of new technologies eco-friendly from EU regulations. Other than that, everything stays the same : )

I follow your concern on the clean-digital-look, though. Not my beach either. But, we're discussing capture tools, not the master to render for final output :-)