sir_danish Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 I don´t think the new BMCs will be available in July. I´ve just received a message from a german reseller, regarding the availability of the "old" BMCC with MFT mount. According to Blackmagic, the BMCC MFT will be available by the end of the year, at least in that particular store, which is - after all - an authorized reseller, listed on the Blackmagic website. I don´t care about the price tag of those cameras - if a company isn´t able to actually deliver a product that´s been introduced 1 year ago, I don´t even want to think of their customer and repair service. To announce two new products and state their delivery date, while the first one didn´t even leave the essembly belt after such a long time, is an evidence of incapacity, rather than clever PR. Just my two cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted April 9, 2013 Author Administrators Share Posted April 9, 2013 Danish, the two situations cannot be compared. One one hand you have a camera beset by sensor issues, on the other hand you have a new camera which uses a completely different sensor. The BMCC delays were nothing to do with Blackmagic. They were 100% due to the sensor supplier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingswell Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 That's fine for the 4K version, but as far as i understand the pocket camera uses the same sensor as the V1 EF and MFT. There is still alot of people waiting for the camera they ordered back in 2012. The MFT was meant to be released in Decmeber. It's now April and they are still in beta testing mode! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 That's fine for the 4K version, but as far as i understand the pocket camera uses the same sensor as the V1 EF and MFT. There is still alot of people waiting for the camera they ordered back in 2012. The MFT was meant to be released in Decmeber. It's now April and they are still in beta testing mode! It is also a different sensor, just with a similar image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingswell Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 ah ok i thought they were taking the existing sensor and cropping. I still am incredibly sceptical about this July date based on past experience. They will now have 4 lines to manufacture, and although they are slightly more experienced with camera building it's still a small frame of time to get everything going. From what i've read (and again correct me if i'm wrong) they're still working on the 4K version so a final product isn't even ready to manufacture as of now. Chrad and Zach 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richg101 Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 the pocket camera is at a price point where they will have to have subcontracted another manufacturer to undertake the work in the far east. i seriously doubt the pocket will be assembled by the same stretched plant who were assembling the original bmcc. At the price point no where other than the far east could handle manufacture of this camera within budget (I assume if retail is $999, wholesale is $499, and manufacturing is probably $50-100. Since the profit margin for bm is low, they will need to sell lots to recover development costs and start to see a profit. Hence they cannot allow it to get to a point where orders are cancelled. Only the far east could deliver the quantities required for an item of this price point IMO. The chinese plants deliver. and BM will have contracted a trustworthy plant and probably have australian techs in there full time HurtinMinorKey and Chrad 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingswell Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 I think they exclusively manufacture their products in Australia, and if i remember correctly they produce the majority of the components themselves-i have absolutely no idea how they make any profit with the prices they charge! Anyway excuse my sceptical nature, i hope they pull if off and deliver masses in July. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_danish Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 According to a sales and service manager of a rather big shop that specializes in cameras and equipment, he doesn´t assume that they will deliver in July. They have so many pre-orders, still from the last year, that they don´t know how satisfy requirements. Even if Andrew claims that this is due to the sensor supplier, I think Blackmagic, at least at the moment, mainly exists on paper. I bet it will take another year (or more), until all three cameras will actually be tangible for everyone. Before than we will see some reviews and tests here and there, just like we do at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pask74 Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Andrew, I like your optimism and I think BMD may be able to deliver those cameras on time if all goes well, especially if production is about to start already. Now, how can they/we make sure that all goes well? Talking Pocket here: How about over-heating? SD card compatibility? Firmware portability? Battery life? etc. There are many aspects of every new product that are difficult to forecast and many potential stones to stumble upon. I'd have appreciated if BMD's communication would have been more like "our ideal plan is to start shipping in July and we will keep you updated on how production progresses. We would like to avoid the situation we have encountered with the first camera by any means and, even though we've taken all necessary measures, we prefer to be a bit on the reserved side with our announcements." So, my personal re-phrasing of your blog post would be "A few good reasons why Blackmagic could manage to ship around July". ;) Those cameras and the Digital Bolex just around the corner is just incredible news, by the way! Thanks for sharing so much edgy information... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richg101 Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 I'll rephrase my comment. The 4k bmpc will probably be delayed due to being their flagship camera which they will need greater control of manufacture, hence using a smaller more specified team of assemblers, maybe in Austraila. The pocket, at its price point could only be manufactured in the far east, and in large quantities, otherwise NO profit will be seen). I'd imagine what ever plants they have chosen will have a minimum order of 1000 units of each component, probably more. I see this situation:- No one plant will receive data for all the components, but instead maybe 3 or 4 plants will all handle individual boards. Then a final plant will undertake the assembly, packing and shipment. Our deposits will likely fund this initial outlay, paying the plants per unit (which i'm perfectly happy with). The 3 month lead time is probably an underestimate, but i bet its close to this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted April 10, 2013 Author Administrators Share Posted April 10, 2013 You're probably right about the subcontracted Asian manufacturing Rich, but the deposits stay at the dealers and don't go to Blackmagic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 I'd have appreciated if BMD's communication would have been more like "our ideal plan is to start shipping in July and we will keep you updated on how production progresses. We would like to avoid the situation we have encountered with the first camera by any means and, even though we've taken all necessary measures, we prefer to be a bit on the reserved side with our announcements." BM's CEO has done that several times over the last year in blackmagic's forums, with great details on why the delays exists and how they try to solve them. Luc pask74 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FilmMan Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 It'll be interesting if the camera comes in July. On a marketing perspective, announce a date, as it discourages the prospective purchasers at looking else where. If BM has a release delay, people wanting 4K/global shutter for $4K, will be disappointed. However, the vast majority will wait it out unless another product comes with similar specs and price. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgharding Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 BMD aren't a new company, they've been going a long long time, they're just new to cameras. They have close ties with Apple, hence the unibody look of their cameras I reckon, similar if not the same manufacturers. I think they'll have learned a lot from the experience of using a sensor manufacturer who can't handle capacity at aqcceptable quality levels. Also about collimation tolerances (the Tokina issue). CMOSIS (if indeed they have provided this one) can likely be trusted with this. Even I expect a slight delay, but probably not as much as the last one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgharding Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Andrew, I like your optimism and I think BMD may be able to deliver those cameras on time if all goes well, especially if production is about to start already. Now, how can they/we make sure that all goes well? Talking Pocket here: How about over-heating? SD card compatibility? Firmware portability? Battery life? etc. There are many aspects of every new product that are difficult to forecast and many potential stones to stumble upon. I'd have appreciated if BMD's communication would have been more like "our ideal plan is to start shipping in July and we will keep you updated on how production progresses. We would like to avoid the situation we have encountered with the first camera by any means and, even though we've taken all necessary measures, we prefer to be a bit on the reserved side with our announcements." So, my personal re-phrasing of your blog post would be "A few good reasons why Blackmagic could manage to ship around July". ;) Those cameras and the Digital Bolex just around the corner is just incredible news, by the way! Thanks for sharing so much edgy information... I read battery life is 1 hour for BMDPCC on one site. Quite low, but the batteries are generic Nikon so just buy a bag full and number them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bioskop.Inc Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 The guy @ NAB said End of July in the latest interview - so basically sometime in the summer, but it all depends on how fast they can make them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony wilson Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 I'll rephrase my comment. The 4k bmpc will probably be delayed due to being their flagship camera which they will need greater control of manufacture, hence using a smaller more specified team of assemblers, maybe in Austraila. The pocket, at its price point could only be manufactured in the far east, and in large quantities, otherwise NO profit will be seen). yup yep probably made in one of china's foxconn suicide slave cities. impossible for anything to be made in aus at that price point china with maybe some japan parts. it is priced for mass sales. apple had the perfectionism and o.c.d of steve jobs to thrash the foxconn china factory workers into producing high quality goods. like red who outsourced many components to china it ended up delaying the scarlet. i would love this little super 16 camera but joe public is not getting it in july that is just black magic bull bonkers marketing blather. the only way it is july is if the boss man has thrown millions at a china factory to guarantee this but why bother when people seem happy waiting 8 months for cameras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtheory Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Let's remember that BM has been repeating one point over and over, - they have a warehouse of BMCC/BMPC bodies ready and waiting for a sensor to be dropped in. Most of the assembly work has already been done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axel Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 I'd have appreciated if BMD's communication would have been more like "our ideal plan is to start shipping in July and we will keep you updated on how production progresses. We would like to avoid the situation we have encountered with the first camera by any means and, even though we've taken all necessary measures, we prefer to be a bit on the reserved side with our announcements." So, my personal re-phrasing of your blog post would be "A few good reasons why Blackmagic could manage to ship around July". ;) You are right and wrong at the same time. The death of Osama bin Laden in May 2011 was allegedly filmed, but nothing of this was ever shown to the public. The corpse was thrown into the ocean. There actually is no way to tell, no way to prove, that he actually was killed. But where are all the usual myths? Even Elvis, whose enormous corpse was not hidden after death, did survive for some. The reason is logic. If Osama was alive, the easiest way to put shame on his arch enemy was a short video in which he says, hi Barack, I'm as fresh as a daisy, na na-na na-naaa-na! And because Obama could'nt sleep with this scenario in mind, that's enough to prove he didn't lie. In this case, not being able to deliver in July would be suicidal for BM. The excuses of the past (we couldn't catch Osama because he was hidden so well) don't count now. This is not the hangdog attitude of someone who disappointed others, it is a swell announcement. So they have to be sure, they really think, that they can deliver as promised. tony wilson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony wilson Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 according to my sources cia man osama died in a hospital in rawalpindi pakistan on sept 10th 2001. nice handy date A he was visited by 2 men who where allowed through his security and later that day died while on a dialysis machine. up until the visit by fellow cia agents he was in good spirits. funny old world init. in the case of cameras and july dishing 100 cameras out to friends and bloggers will not cut it as a proper release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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