Canon C300 mk ii "other settings"

[tomsemiterrific]

I own a C300 mk II--and it's a wonderful camera. But I feel like I'm not getting close to what I could get out of it in color. I must say the "other settings" where the color matrices can be adjusted constitute a daunting challenge for me. Can anyone offer any help in using these settings for color adjustment--or can anyone suggest a source they believe would be helpful---tutorials, etc?

[jcs]

31 minutes ago, tomsemiterrific said:

I own a C300 mk II--and it's a wonderful camera. But I feel like I'm not getting close to what I could get out of it in color. I must say the "other settings" where the color matrices can be adjusted constitute a daunting challenge for me. Can anyone offer any help in using these settings for color adjustment--or can anyone suggest a source they believe would be helpful---tutorials, etc?

Hey I think your best bet is getting quality lights (Aputure or better with high CRI/TLCI), setting white balance correctly, and exposing properly using Canon Log 3 + Rec709 or Wide DR + Rec709 if you don't want to mess around with grading. For our green screen shoots we use a bunch of Aputure lights (LS1, LS1/2), Canon Log 2, Production Matrix (for ARRI LUTs), and Cinema Gamut. Then just applying an ARRI LUT in PP CC and it's 99% done (then just minor tweaks to saturation etc. in Lumetri). FCPX applies a LUT automatically (I could also make it work with just the Color Board and no LUTs). I never have to do any other color tweaks. I recently started looking at the other settings (not using Canon Log 2) to get a 100% WYSIWYG to allow for no post needed at all (e.g. for live streaming). I can deep dive into the esoteric settings, however IMO it's a waste of time unless you have a very unusual situation, such as needing perfect camera matching for a live feed, etc.

If you still want to deep dive those settings, perhaps post questions here: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/forumdisplay.php?246-Cinema-EOS-Cameras

[tomsemiterrific]

11 minutes ago, jcs said:

Hey I think your best bet is getting quality lights (Aputure or better with high CRI/TLCI), setting white balance correctly, and exposing properly using Canon Log 3 + Rec709 or Wide DR + Rec709 if you don't want to mess around with grading. For our green screen shoots we use a bunch of Aputure lights (LS1, LS1/2), Canon Log 2, Production Matrix (for ARRI LUTs), and Cinema Gamut. Then just applying an ARRI LUT in PP CC and it's 99% done (then just minor tweaks to saturation etc. in Lumetri). FCPX applies a LUT automatically (I could also make it work with just the Color Board and no LUTs). I never have to do any other color tweaks. I recently started looking at the other settings (not using Canon Log 2) to get a 100% WYSIWYG to allow for no post needed at all (e.g. for live streaming). I can deep dive into the esoteric settings, however IMO it's a waste of time unless you have a very unusual situation, such as needing perfect camera matching for a live feed, etc.

If you still want to deep dive those settings, perhaps post questions here: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/forumdisplay.php?246-Cinema-EOS-Cameras

Great response. I'll work with those things and see what I can come up with. 
The thing that makes me crazy is, with the "other settings" set to "off," the Log, 2020, and even the 709 preset come out totally unsaturated---flat. So I have to grade them or use LUTS--even with the 709. Where am I going wrong?

The other issue that frustrates me is when I expose C-Log 3 correctly according to factory recommendations the C-log LUTS just look awful and require a LOT of grading. Crazy.

[jcs]

8 minutes ago, tomsemiterrific said:

Great response. I'll work with those things and see what I can come up with. 
The thing that makes me crazy is, with the "other settings" set to "off," the Log, 2020, and even the 709 preset come out totally unsaturated---flat. So I have to grade them or use LUTS--even with the 709. Where am I going wrong?

The other issue that frustrates me is when I expose C-Log 3 correctly according to factory recommendations the C-log LUTS just look awful and require a LOT of grading. Crazy.

Perhaps try resetting the camera to the factory state: http://www.manuals365.com/swf/canon/eosc300-mk2-im-en.html?page=190, then try these builtin presets: Canon Log 3 + Rec709 or Wide DR + Rec709. You shouldn't need any grading to look nice if lit with good lights, proper WB and exposure. The live view should also look great- if it doesn't something is wrong.

[tomsemiterrific]

5 minutes ago, jcs said:

Perhaps try resetting the camera to the factory state: http://www.manuals365.com/swf/canon/eosc300-mk2-im-en.html?page=190, then try these builtin presets: Canon Log 3 + Rec709 or Wide DR + Rec709. You shouldn't need any grading to look nice if lit with good lights, proper WB and exposure. The live view should also look great- if it doesn't something is wrong.

I think  reset it sage advice.  Before I do anything else I'll try that.

As long as you're kind enough to respond I have one more question. Using the XLR attachment on the C300ii I get a lot of noise in recording. I don't have any trouble like this with any other XLR settings on other cameras. I have the XLR attachment for the XC15--and audio comes out clean. 

Also, the attachment for the GH5---clean audio. But lots of hum and high noise floor on the C300 mk ii--really disappointed in this and have done everything I know to fix it. I'm not looking for anything fancy--just clean audio with a low noise floor. 

Any suggestions?

Thanks so much for your input.

[jcs]

Using Audix and Schoeps mics we get very clean, low noise audio (all the Cosmic Flow episodes are using the C300 II). If after factory reset still noisy with a known good mic (and levels set around 5, and M (manual), not A (auto)), I'd take it in to where I bought it to have the camera checked out (especially if color isn't right too after factory reset).

[tomsemiterrific]

1 hour ago, jcs said:

Using Audix and Schoeps mics we get very clean, low noise audio (all the Cosmic Flow episodes are using the C300 II). If after factory reset still noisy with a known good mic (and levels set around 5, and M (manual), not A (auto)), I'd take it in to where I bought it to have the camera checked out (especially if color isn't right too after factory reset).

This has been enormously helpful. It was stupid of me to not do a reset---so basic.

I did the reset and everything looks normal again. Can't imagine what skewed things so much.

No time to check audio tonight--WAY past my bedtime. But tomorrow I'll check. If the audio works out I'll have a functioning cam again. I've got two educational presentations to send to Canada---and, as much as I love the GH5, I'd really prefer to shoot it on the C300.

Is there any reason skin colors look so zombie-like in 2020? I thought this was a larger color space than 709--but I can't see it in the colors it produces. 

[jcs]

2020 is larger than the 709 color space indeed so you'll need a 2020 to 709 transform to look normal (or view on an HDR display/HDTV which knows the file is 2020/HDR).

[tomsemiterrific]

4 hours ago, jcs said:

2020 is larger than the 709 color space indeed so you'll need a 2020 to 709 transform to look normal (or view on an HDR display/HDTV which knows the file is 2020/HDR).

Well, that clarifies a lot for me. I finally found the issue with the audio. The fan. It was on all the time. I changed the setting to "auto." So, the fan shuts off during recording and starts when the recording stops.

I don't shoot for long stretches---maybe four or five minutes of continuous recording in clips. And I only use the C300ii in studio with controlled room temps.

Is there any problem with having the fan set on auto, and having it shut off under the conditions I described?

[jcs]

Ah, the noise you are hearing is the internal mic. If you are only plugging in one XLR mic, when you import your footage, you'll need to either reinterpret as mono (1 channel), or mute the other 3 tracks. In Premiere CC, I created a preset to reinterpret the audio channels as stereo (use only channels 1 and 2) since I use both XLR inputs in the studio. After I import the clips, I select all of them then apply the reinterpret preset. In FCPX I disable channels on the audio board (haven't researched how to reinterpret imported clips as a group).

I used to have the fan turn off when filming, however now I leave it on since the mics are on booms in the studio, and when shooting handheld, the shotgun mic (Schoeps CMIT5U) does a really good job masking not just the fan noise but also the AF noise (really impressive- all that gets through is low frequency AF vibration from the factory mic mount (can remove in post with a low cut filter; should try the mic low cut filter). If using a better suspension mount should be silent. Haven't tested, but something like this might work: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/861386-REG/Rycote_037324_SOFTIE_LYRE_MOUNT_with.html). Electronics last longer when cool, so I'd leave the fan on unless you can truly hear it in the recording and/or you're trying to save battery for a specific location shoot.

[Kisaha]

+111111

Well done @jcs Tom's definitely owes you a vey cold beer someday!

Try the low cut filter, and it will be fine. For voice recording you don't need most of the low frequencies anyway.

[tugela]

15 hours ago, tomsemiterrific said:

I did the reset and everything looks normal again. Can't imagine what skewed things so much.

 

Probably from reading "expert advice" off the internet! 

[User]

+1 JCS,

I always appreciate you well placed insights.

 

[IronFilm]

On 5/9/2017 at 8:19 AM, jcs said:

Ah, the noise you are hearing is the internal mic. If you are only plugging in one XLR mic, when you import your footage, you'll need to either reinterpret as mono (1 channel), or mute the other 3 tracks. In Premiere CC, I created a preset to reinterpret the audio channels as stereo (use only channels 1 and 2) since I use both XLR inputs in the studio. After I import the clips, I select all of them then apply the reinterpret preset. In FCPX I disable channels on the audio board (haven't researched how to reinterpret imported clips as a group).

I used to have the fan turn off when filming, however now I leave it on since the mics are on booms in the studio, and when shooting handheld, the shotgun mic (Schoeps CMIT5U) does a really good job masking not just the fan noise but also the AF noise (really impressive- all that gets through is low frequency AF vibration from the factory mic mount (can remove in post with a low cut filter; should try the mic low cut filter). If using a better suspension mount should be silent. Haven't tested, but something like this might work: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/861386-REG/Rycote_037324_SOFTIE_LYRE_MOUNT_with.html). Electronics last longer when cool, so I'd leave the fan on unless you can truly hear it in the recording and/or you're trying to save battery for a specific location shoot.

Surely leaving the fan running on 100% of the time is just crazy overkill??? Not even REDs do that! (but then again their fans are a lot noisier....)

On 5/10/2017 at 11:59 PM, vulycysodi said:

Here is Canon C300 Manual which describe why you have to use other settings, its different settings options, their feature, role of these options in photography, in which type of photography category you have to use it etc. Settings to color matrices: Accessed by the Custom Picture button on the side of the camera, the C300 allows selection and editing of custom picture files, which apply a gamma curve to the image in addition to settings like knee and colour matrix adjustment

Oh and this guy is very obviously a blatant spammer! Perhaps a mod wants to take care of him....

[jcs]

5 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Surely leaving the fan running on 100% of the time is just crazy overkill??? Not even REDs do that! (but then again their fans are a lot noisier....)

Oh and this guy is very obviously a blatant spammer! Perhaps a mod wants to take care of him....

The fan is pretty quiet. While you can set it to turn off while recording, it will turn on anyway if it gets too hot: https://www.manualslib.com/manual/994675/Canon-Eos-C300-Mark-Ii.html?page=61

We use ours in the studio plugged into the wall most of the time. Some of our lights have louder fans.

A few years from now we'll look back and chuckle how cameras used to be big, clunky, and even had fans to cool the primitive electronics.