Odyssey7Q turns wimpy Sony FS700 into monstrous 4K raw crunching beast with 15 stops DR!!

[Bioskop.Inc]

DPX files will result in massive file sizes (they will be individual frames), but excellent quality for colour - originally used for scanning film frames & now used for VFX. No sound, just great images.

[Leang]

DPX is nothing new.  But in this recorder sense a nice convenience since you can just duplicate another master copy without doing the traditional long ass render.  just give the duplicate to the colorist or VFX head.  all that aside while you work on the proxy and then EDL it.  either way there's still yet another (final) DPX to film scan. 

[Germy1979]

As a guy who just spent $7500 on a C100 with a Ninja 2, i'm sorry but this is bullsh-t.. I actually prefer Canon's image to Sony's, but where is Canon in all of this? Clean hdmi for the 5D3? That's throwing us all a bone. I almost bought the FS700. Sony gets a 4k raw upgrade from hell, I get a magnifying upgrade for my $6500 (now $5500) camera in October. To top it off, it is non-returnable.

Such Bullsh-t.

This is the biggest self kick in the ass i've ever experienced because all 3 C cams have the same sensor and the same processor. (100,300,500).. And they COULD EASILY upgrade them..

God I'm pissed. Rant over

[Edward Zaee]

Avoid Sony like the plague

[Andrew Reid]

As a guy who just spent $7500 on a C100 with a Ninja 2, i'm sorry but this is bullsh-t.. I actually prefer Canon's image to Sony's, but where is Canon in all of this? Clean hdmi for the 5D3? That's throwing us all a bone. I almost bought the FS700. Sony gets a 4k raw upgrade from hell, I get a magnifying upgrade for my $6500 (now $5500) camera in October. To top it off, it is non-returnable.

Such Bullsh-t.

This is the biggest self kick in the ass i've ever experienced because all 3 C cams have the same sensor and the same processor. (100,300,500).. And they COULD EASILY upgrade them..

God I'm pissed. Rant over

 

Haha. There's a very good argument for all the camera manufacturers sucking. Canon lack the competitive pricing and brute specs, whilst their low end (DSLR) is a total running joke now... Ever since I started the blog. Sony lack the image quality in some situations (A99 anyone?) and have iffy ergonomic design though the F5 and F55 are a step in the right direction. Blackmagic also lack the ergonomics, and seemingly the ability to ship cameras. Fuji aren't even in the camera game and they let their film business die out with Kodak. Their X series is crap for video, and Olympus don't even know what 24p is. Nikon - it took 3 years to even wake them up and to be honest their current cameras aren't exactly full of unique selling points. Panasonic seemingly have a clue on the GH line but when it comes to their high end, it as if they have stalled. The time for action is now Panasonic but I get a feeling they've just spent 2 years debating the specs of a codec (AVC Ultra). Finally there's Red and Arri. They're doing fine but the day either of them gives us a affordable mass produced cinema camera is the day hell freezes over.

 

 

I was considering the C100 but just about the only thing it has over the competition is the form factor. Canon are trying their best to put us all to sleep. 5D Mark III firmware update is a joke. Why did we have to wait a year for it if the hardware could have done it all along? It is a clear case of wanting to protect their Cinema EOS margins and likely the only reason they are now giving it us is that the Nikon D800 has been eating into their 5D Mark III sales.

 

C100 gets movable focus assist, FS700 gets 4K raw and 240fps 2K raw. Haha that made me laugh very loudly indeed.

 

At least your camera does not have buttons laid out like a 1970's IBM mainframe so be thankful of that.

[vas907]

It's my understanding that you'll still need the HXR-IFR5 interface for 4k raw right? And you'll have to pay for every codec or rent per day including sony codecs? If they are giving you the option to rent a codec for a day shoot for a production house this can't be cheap.

[ScreensPro]

Sony gets a 4k raw upgrade from hell, I get a magnifying upgrade for my $6500 (now $5500) camera in October.

 

Sony have always said the FS700 would be upgradable to 4K (and it may not be free).... Canon didn't and were never going to.

 

If you crave 4K, you only have yourself to blame for buying a 1080p camera that never had a 4K upgrade path.

[mtheory]

I'd love to know more about Kineraw Mini, wish those guys would send a model over to Andrew for review. Definitely outclassed by Blackmagic now, but still a strong entry with uncompressed CinemaDNG RAW for $3K and a beautiful gradable image too. 

 

They'd have a better chance in this post-BMPC-announcement market if they dropped the price to $2K, - we'd have a $2K for 2K RAW camera with S35 sensor and no global shutter as a good lower-end option below the BMPC, - this way they could be part of the affordable RAW revolution. 

[Germy1979]

Sony have always said the FS700 would be upgradable to 4K (and it may not be free).... Canon didn't and were never going to.

If you crave 4K, you only have yourself to blame for buying a 1080p camera that never had a 4K upgrade path.

Well see here's the thing.

I'm aware that the fs700 would get a 4k upgrade. The issue isn't with the 4k Screenspro. Most of the free world is still operating at 1080p... My problem, is watching the price drop a thousand dollars 6 days after i purchase a $7500 system, and watch the rest of the industry pummel its ass for less than that in the same week. All the while being tossed a focus upgrade for the fall...

Forgive me if I don't feel like cowboying up fella.

[Leang]

Well see here's the thing.

I'm aware that the fs700 would get a 4k upgrade. The issue isn't with the 4k Screenspro. Most of the free world is still operating at 1080p... My problem, is watching the price drop a thousand dollars 6 days after i purchase a $7500 system, and watch the rest of the industry pummel its ass for less than that in the same week. All the while being tossed a focus upgrade for the fall...

Forgive me if I don't feel like cowboying up fella.

had the same problem with B&H when I got the AG-HPX170 and then a week later they dropped it a grand. I told them to honor the change or I else I would ship it back within the return period. They credited me back the difference. It's up to the retailer I guess.

[ScreensPro]

 My problem, is watching the price drop a thousand dollars 6 days after i purchase a $7500 system

 

It is harsh... but part of life in the technological age... I'm sure we have all been stung. Sony are certainly no saints either.... remember the F3 s-log upgrade?

 

Imagine the guys who bought the RED Epic a few weeks before the $9000 (?) price drop

[Husah]

The problem with DPX file would be that file sizes would be huge (just like Canon RAW). Sony RAW is compressed. That's a big advantage, and the reason Red is suing Sony. That's also probably the reason why Sony can do 60 fps (and 120 fps for 4 sec) in RAW and Odyssey7Q can only do 30 fps in 4K. However, if Odyssey7Q could do DPX, other third-party recorder will be able to do the same, or probably even better. The sensor in FS700 is capable of spewing 120 fps 4K RAW. It's up to the third-party makers to capture that data in a recorder and save it in more desirable format (like compressed RAW, or even XAVC with far more manageable file sizes). Wait a couple of months and I think there would be far more (probably even better) third-party options for FS700. There is another advantage to waiting a couple of months: You can possibly (and most likely) buy FS700 with 4K firmware already installed on it.

[tomekk]

Another whiners thread ;). ok, ok, sorry ;).

[insane]

Just registered here to say that DPX is a really the big deal here. Actually its the only real and big advantage over Blackmagic, at least on paper specs, who knows maybe in real life use there would be more.

 

As everybody I was excited about BPC but then I saw ProRes, that thing is just nasty!

 

I pray for day to come when cameras will output directly to DPX or OpenEXR, it would make our lives in post a lot easier and it would actually cut few steps down in the pipeline.

[Husah]

By the way, the RAW coming out of FS700 is 16-bit linear. That's higher than C500/Alexa RAW 16-bit RAW is similar to F5/F55/F65 RAW

[zephyrnoid]

NIce. Is there some syntactic confusion here?
"Rolling shutter is minimal on the FS700 though it cannot compete with a global shutter like on the Blackmagic. However that does hurt low light and dynamic range quite significantly."
I assume you mean on the Blackmagic?

[rishaar]

Those Odyssey 7/7Q are a marvel of technology, reading the specs list i still can't believe thay were able to fit that much is such a small package.

That price point in pair with the possibility  to rent the recording codecs, in my humble opinion, this is as revolutionnary as the BMCC for this industry.

 

Also, it is really nice to see Sony opening up to 3rd party manufacturers like that for a change. They seem ok to cannibalize a bit their own much more expensive new recorder, i guess they cater it for the f5/f55 crowd anyway.

 

@Husah is right, the fs700 will drop in price in the coming months or come with the new firmware. 

I just got my fs100 last month brand new for 2800USD in Japan, it was a month limited Sony sale...they do that a lot recently.

[KahL]

Close to 15 stops DR in AVCHD comes from a good source, Adam Whit at ProVideoCoalition.
http://www.eoshd.com/content/8332/sony-fs700-the-image-quality-verdict-incredible-14-stops-of-dynamic-range-in-avchd
Even if 14 stops is optimistic by Adam, it isn't hard to put two and two together and imagine raw will give you at least an extra stop of clean detail in the highlights or shadows, maybe both.
DPX is simply a container for raw Kahl.

Well after seeing the recent replies, I don't need to correct you on the DPX comment (especially since I work w/ dpx on a regular basis). However, its fairly obvious that the FS700 isn't 14-15 stops akin to film. Not by a long shot. However, RAW output certainly will give an extra stop of recoverable latitude.

[jcs]

Hardware update required for 4K: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?305725-4K-will-require-hardware-update

Not clear if only for Sony's recorder or for 4K in general.

[ScreensPro]

Hardware update required for 4K

 

1 step forward, 2 steps back.

 

Surely Sony were just plain lying then, when they said the camera was "4K ready" or whatever the marketing speak was.