Odyssey7Q turns wimpy Sony FS700 into monstrous 4K raw crunching beast with 15 stops DR!!

[LaneMc]

Close to 15 stops DR in AVCHD comes from a good source, Adam Whit at ProVideoCoalition.
http://www.eoshd.com/content/8332/sony-fs700-the-image-quality-verdict-incredible-14-stops-of-dynamic-range-in-avchd
Even if 14 stops is optimistic by Adam, it isn't hard to put two and two together and imagine raw will give you at least an extra stop of clean detail in the highlights or shadows, maybe both.
DPX is simply a container for raw Kahl.

AbelCine has this cam at 11.5 stops.
http://resources.abelcine.com/2012/05/11/testing-the-fs700-low-light-performance-dynamic-range-and-slow-motion/

[Leang]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZERTR8c_J1Q

[jgharding]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZERTR8c_J1Q

 

Is that fellow actually a robot? He reminds me of Data from Star Trek.

[Leang]

Is that fellow actually a robot? He reminds me of Data from Star Trek.

 

meanwhile at the Sigma Pro marketing and sales division we have the fully memorized ''pro'' presenter/speaker... wait for it...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_klkz5GVycM

[jgharding]

Excellent positioning of the autocue there... bottom right of the frame...

 

It would be absolutely brilliant if it were a Tim & Eric style parody, from the backdrop and flowers to the little chord at the end! 

 

But alas, it's serious.

 

What a catchy name the lens has too! 

 

I owned two Sigmas, sold both for sucking.

[hmcindie]

AbelCine has this cam at 11.5 stops.
http://resources.abelcine.com/2012/05/11/testing-the-fs700-low-light-performance-dynamic-range-and-slow-motion/

 

Provideocoalition did a WAY more proper test than Abelcine. 11.5 stops is really down considering how much stuff the cam has in cinegamma 4. 

[Tzedekh]

My understanding is that only the Sony HXR-IFR5/AXS-R5 combo records raw at 4K. The Odyssey7Q will record the FS700's 4K, but only as DPX.

[KahL]

I thought DPX was a format used by video editors to transport raw in an uncompressed way from NLE to NLE. That not right? Can anyone clarify? I've never used this format before in my work.

DPX is a mode meant for colorists, not so much for editors. You CAN edit in DPX, but it's not the best idea.

[LaneMc]

Provideocoalition did a WAY more proper test than Abelcine. 11.5 stops is really down considering how much stuff the cam has in cinegamma 4. 

 

Not sure what you mean by WAY more proper.. they both shot charts, (not sure if provdeicoalitoin was shot in a completely black room) - PVC did also use a superior chart - but even in their assessment here http://provideocoalition.com/aadams/story/cameras_sony_fs700_dynamic_range_presentation/P2

They say "I see 13, maybe 14 stops, of which about 12 are usable." in referencing Cine Gamma 4.  12 is pretty close to 11.5

 

Since AbelCine did the test and got very similar DR results to the FS100 - using their 18 stop chart.  I would like to see what the FS100 would do on a Xyla 21 stop chart (used by PVC).  Perhaps the FS100 and many other cameras would come in with higher DR results.

[gene_can_sing]

FS700 with a wimpy image? I hardly think so Andrew. You used it for 1 night and you make such a quick judgement without really getting to know the camera? 

 

Here's a much more accurate review of the FS700 by Rick Burnet, who has used the FS100 extensive since it was first release and knows more about the FS100 than just about anyone I know of. He knows the FS100 inside and out; and shoots good work with it very regularly.

 

------------

 

Rick writes:

 

"Okay, just got done with two full days of shooting the FS700 in the woods. I can say WITHOUT ANY DOUBT that the FS700 colors with the CINE gamma are absolutely better than the FS100 in every way. I am literally blown away with the latitude and highlight handling I am getting. Everything I shot was just spot on for the color I wanted. I left the white balance on 4700K and never needed to change it.

 

One really interesting thing for me is that there is so much detail in the blacks when I am exposing for skin. We had a 5Dm3 with us as well shooting and it was interesting to see how much more latitude we were getting on the FS700. I will say this though, we went from a 7D to 5Dm3 and the difference between both was really easy to see. Th 5Dm3 was holding A LOT more detail. The colors out of it were a more crushed obviously than the FS700.

 

I can't believe I waited so long to get the FS700.

 

Sensitivity does seem to be a bit less than the FS100, but nothing I care about. It's still SO clean. 

 

Latitude in the CINE modes is amazing. Wow, there is A LOT of detail in the image. More than I expected. 

 

For those with an FS100 that are not terribly happy with the colors, if you love everything else about the FS100 then I can say, it's worth the leap. I don't see that "Sony" look that I've seen on other cameras. My shots are EXTREMELY neutral meaning that the colors look completely natural. (I think I set saturation to -2).

 

I still contend that the FS100 has some heavy sensitivity to red, which is now gone."

 

------------

 

Like Rick, I have had a similar experience with the FS700. It has a very nice image, and also, the motion jitter that comes with the FS100 is gone as are sensor reflections.

 

The thing with the FS700 is that it does NOT have a nice pre-graded look unlike the Canons and the BMC which have an excellent stock profile. The FS700 needs to be shot in the Cinegamma profiles, which are excellent, but flat-ish and need grading for every shot. The FS700 stock profiles are horrible and should not be used. If you like to grade, it's a great camera. If you like a nice out of the camera look, it's not the camera for you.

 

Don't believe us? Here's a few videos from the FS700 that really show it's true potential when avoiding the stock profiles

 

https://vimeo.com/63439928

 

James Vernon says he just shot it with Cinegamma 4 with mostly stock settings and just did a pretty basic grade in After Effects

 

https://vimeo.com/63336544

 

This was shot with the S#ity Sony Kit lens. Show really how unique a feeling you can elicit from this camera with the slow motion, and unlike the BMC, you can shoot into the sun.

 

https://vimeo.com/58754398

 

A spot I shot, nothing really fancy, just simple grading

 

https://vimeo.com/48711717

 

Just some dailies from a music video I shot. Unprocessed footage from the camera.

 

Check out my URL for a quite a bit of FS700 stuff. It's a legit camera for sure.

 

www.builtbyUgene.com

 

I just DP'd 3 spots for the SyFy Channel (Major cable channel in the USA) and the client loved the FS700 footage. I've shot stuff for other channels like Bravo as well, and every time the clients love the footage they are getting

 

There's so much good stuff shot with the FS700. The biggest downfall of the FS700 is that it is associated with the FS100 which has a pretty bad aesthetic IMO - weird colors, bad highlights, strange motion, clinical and sterile looking. The FS700 fixes all that and you would know that if you spend more than a few hours with it. For me, I couldn't even care less about 4K RAW. RAW is such a huge workflow killer. Great in theory, but in reality, dealing with it in post is expensive and time consuming just because of the gigantic storage space.

 

The internal codec isn't super great, but it's pretty good, certainly as good as the GH3 and you can't stop raving about how great that camera is. Before you proclaim a camera as great or a total failure, you should spend some real time with it. You shot with the FS700 briefly and proclaimed it a failure. You haven't even shot with the BMC 4K, yet judging by all the coverage you give the camera, you've already deemed it a success and are hyping the hell out of it before anything is really even know about it.

 

All I'm saying is spend real quality time with the equipment if you are going to write about it.

[Sean Cunningham]

That top video is the first and only FS700 footage I think I've seen that didn't have almost immediate give-aways that it's digital video.  It was just pretty and obviously meticulously shot and crafted.   Pretty much all of the other footage I've seen, including some commercials I worked on, had what I'd typically expect from a Sony camera in the highlights.  Shooting into the sun is a really good way to bring this out and a BMCC wouldn't look like that.  You can shoot into the sun but please don't.

 

FYI, SyFy puts the most awful garbage on air, I wouldn't go bragging about how much they like anything.   I mean, gratz on the work but they're not a network of quality and never have been.  That said, it's not hard to imagine you or anyone who actually cares about their work could impress them.  They keep The Asylum in business, after all.

[gene_can_sing]

Hey Sean,

Not to disrespect or anything, but I checked out your Trick or Treat movie and that just screamed video. Not sure what camera it was but that made the FS700 look like Kodak 35mm film.

As for impressing a network client? I'll take it if they keep giving me work.

[mtheory]

[Sean Cunningham]

Hey Sean,

Not to disrespect or anything, but I checked out your Trick or Treat movie and that just screamed video. Not sure what camera it was but that made the FS700 look like Kodak 35mm film.

 

Hah-hah

 

That's just me walking around following my niece and nephew on Halloween.  You're totally free to make some kind of douche nozzle comparison of that against something where someone actually tried to shoot slick, might have had a crew, might have even been paid.   Go right ahead.  Your powers of perception are continuing to entertain.

[Andrew Reid]

The internal codec isn't super great, but it's pretty good, certainly as good as the GH3 and you can't stop raving about how great that camera is. Before you proclaim a camera as great or a total failure, you should spend some real time with it. You shot with the FS700 briefly and proclaimed it a failure. You haven't even shot with the BMC 4K, yet judging by all the coverage you give the camera, you've already deemed it a success and are hyping the hell out of it before anything is really even know about it. All I'm saying is spend real quality time with the equipment if you are going to write about it.

 

OK point taken. Please do calm down.

 

I'm not proclaiming it a failure but nothing it can do internally match what amazing stuff it can do externally at 4K and in raw so in comparison the internal codec is wimpy. That is what the headline means.

 

I really enjoyed my time with the FS700. Loved the slow mo and had mostly good things to say about it but the ergonomics are not the best, the new ND filter implementation is rather clunky and I had major issues with aliasing and worse low light performance than the FS100. Picture profiles are unlikely to help with the aliasing. I will keep my FS100 until I've seen what it does in raw.

[daomay]

As a guy who just spent $7500 on a C100 with a Ninja 2, i'm sorry but this is bullsh-t.. I actually prefer Canon's image to Sony's, but where is Canon in all of this? Clean hdmi for the 5D3? That's throwing us all a bone. I almost bought the FS700. Sony gets a 4k raw upgrade from hell, I get a magnifying upgrade for my $6500 (now $5500) camera in October. To top it off, it is non-returnable.

Such Bullsh-t.

This is the biggest self kick in the ass i've ever experienced because all 3 C cams have the same sensor and the same processor. (100,300,500).. And they COULD EASILY upgrade them..

God I'm pissed. Rant over

 

This has to be the funniest comment since started doing research about camera and film. If you think you got it bad I would like to invite you to come to the FS700 forum at DVX. We are up in arm as to what Sony promise us from the beginning. With the upgrade to our camera to get 4K. It is going to cost more then the actual camera and have you seen the size of those thing hehe.

 

[hmcindie]

That top video is the first and only FS700 footage I think I've seen that didn't have almost immediate give-aways that it's digital video.  It was just pretty and obviously meticulously shot and crafted.  

 

Sorry but that just screams "I have no idea how to make filmic stuff". It actually is more about meticulously shooting and crafting than choosing the newest hyped up cam. Your "Sick Boy"-indie flick would not look any better if you shot it with the BMC because the skills are lacking behind the cam. You might getter better highlights but that's not the reason the image sucks.

 

 

  They keep The Asylum in business, after all.

 

Asylum shoots with Red cameras so it has to be quality. (Seems to be the attitude here lately?).

 

I agree with gene_can_sing, the FS700 can look absolutely great. I loved cinegamma 4 with it's extra latitude and natural colors. Codec is not good but workable. There are also literally hundreds of horrible, videolike images on vimeo from beginning users of the BMC. That's normal and that will be like for every camera. 

 

The only real bad things about the FS700 are the ergonomics, shadow noise and the codec. But they shouldn't stop anyone from shooting beautiful stuff.

[HurtinMinorKey]

There are also literally hundreds of horrible, videolike images on vimeo from beginning users of the BMC. That's normal and that will be like for every camera. 

 

To be honest I haven't seen many shots on the BMCC using Film Mode that look like video. I've seen stuff that looks like garbage, but not video.