Gh5 or 5d mk iv?

[Ken Ross]

^ And likewise, in other ways, you could contend that 4K, IBIS, internal 10 bit etc. makes the GH5 the better choice. Oh, and the GH5 is no slouch shooting stills, but of course we're talking video here.  

[Dave Maze]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

I disagree. If your intent is to make a narrative film or documentary, I would say the cameras used to shoot the films at Sundance is a great barometer. Now it doesn't mean the films are any better because of it, but it does indicate that the Canon image is still appreciated amongst the upper echelon of the Indie film scene. Or at the very least, it's not a distraction.

This post is about choosing between the GH5 and the 5D4. Omar is obviously impressed by the Canon image, he has stated it multiple times. I was merely expressing one of the reasons why I decided to go back to Canon and why I believe the 5D4 may be the better choice.

With the imminent C-Log update coming out in the near future, I would say the feature gap is even closer now. And in some ways... crop factor, color, AF, FF stills... I could contend the 5D4 is the better choice. You could contend differently and you would probably be right also.

I think the new Tamron 10-24 would be a great "16-35mm" equivalent as well with the 5D IV. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1317273-REG/tamron_afb023c_700_10_24mm_f_3_5_4_5_di_ii.html

Pair that with a sigma 18-35mm and you have a really solid kit shooting a high bit rate 4k.

I have found a very significant different in my MJPG 4k because of that 4:2:2 codec. Its great...once you transcode it...

20 hours ago, Dunjoye said:

Love the 1dc!

posted this before. I shot this on it. Hardly did much in post 

 

People complain about mjpeg. But its Robust when converted to Pro res HQ. 

 

These are some Screen grabs from a Drama I am working on. Shot on the 1dc

Bro, I LOVE your stuff here. Amazing. 

It's unfortunate to me that the 1DC isnt as widely used. If people just changed their thinking of it to a proper CINEMA camera, like an URSA mini, Alexa, or RED...they wouldnt be complaining about the higher bit rate recording or lack of AF. 

Knock, knock was 100% shot on the 1DC. You can see it on Hulu I think right now. 

 

[mercer]

21 minutes ago, DaveAltizer said:

I think the new Tamron 10-24 would be a great "16-35mm" equivalent as well with the 5D IV. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1317273-REG/tamron_afb023c_700_10_24mm_f_3_5_4_5_di_ii.html

Pair that with a sigma 18-35mm and you have a really solid kit shooting a high bit rate 4k.

I have found a very significant different in my MJPG 4k because of that 4:2:2 codec. Its great...once you transcode it...

Bro, I LOVE your stuff here. Amazing. 

It's unfortunate to me that the 1DC isnt as widely used. If people just changed their thinking of it to a proper CINEMA camera, like an URSA mini, Alexa, or RED...they wouldnt be complaining about the higher bit rate recording or lack of AF. 

Knock, knock was 100% shot on the 1DC. You can see it on Hulu I think right now. 

 

Damn, I didn't know Knock, Knock was shot on a 1DC. But it looked excellent. That 1DC is pretty damn special. If I were you, I would be planning a feature film on that bad boy. Doesn't the 5D4 use the same mjpeg codec with the same bitrate?

I was just reading that the 6D Mark ii is expected to be announced and released in July. According to Canon Rumors, all future FF Canon cameras will have 4K. And most likely with the mjpeg codec. Now even though I think it would be smart of Canon to include C-Log as well... it's highly unlikely they will do that, unless they really want to stop ML from hacking their newer cameras.

But even without C-Log, the 6D2 is definitely on my radar and at an assumed pricetag of $2000 or less, I  may have to sell a bunch of stuff and save up for one.

[Dave Maze]

11 minutes ago, mercer said:

Damn, I didn't know Knock, Knock was shot on a 1DC. But it looked excellent. That 1DC is pretty damn special. If I were you, I would be planning a feature film on that bad boy. Doesn't the 5D4 use the same mjpeg codec with the same bitrate?

I was just reading that the 6D Mark ii is expected to be announced and released in July. According to Canon Rumors, all future FF Canon cameras will have 4K. And most likely with the mjpeg codec. Now even though I think it would be smart of Canon to include C-Log as well... it's highly unlikely they will do that, unless they really want to stop ML from hacking their newer cameras.

But even without C-Log, the 6D2 is definitely on my radar and at an assumed pricetag of $2000 or less, I  may have to sell a bunch of stuff and save up for one.

Yah! 

The 5D IV with Canon Log will essentially be the same as the 1DC. Its the same Canon Log that is optimized for 8bit color. Only drawback is the crop and the rolling shutter (which I need to test against the 1DC 4k which is also pretty bad.)

[mercer]

13 minutes ago, DaveAltizer said:

Yah! 

The 5D IV with Canon Log will essentially be the same as the 1DC. Its the same Canon Log that is optimized for 8bit color. Only drawback is the crop and the rolling shutter (which I need to test against the 1DC 4k which is also pretty bad.)

Well then if that's the case... the 5D4 could be epic once the C-Log gets implemented. I wouldn't care so much about the crop, personally, but I understand why it could be an issue or a concern to others. The RS raises a red flag, but if it's exactly like the 1DC, then who cares. If Eli Roth didn't mind it, then who am I to care? Man I hope Canon does an about face and includes C-Log in the 6D2. 

[omar]

18 minutes ago, mercer said:

Well then if that's the case... the 5D4 could be epic once the C-Log gets implemented. I wouldn't care so much about the crop, personally, but I understand why it could be an issue or a concern to others. The RS raises a red flag, but if it's exactly like the 1DC, then who cares. If Eli Roth didn't mind it, then who am I to care? Man I hope Canon does an about face and includes C-Log in the 6D2. 

I second that and also hope they put c-log to the 1dx ii. That would be nuts if they did but canon just won't give us what we want.

Canon is like that girlfriend in high school that you know is a freak but only teases you, but you stay with her because she looks better than all the other girls lol. Mean while you have Sony and Panasonic giving it all but don't look as good as that girlfriend named canon so you just go back to canon hoping that eventually she'll give in LOL. 

[mercer]

I wish, at the bare minimum, they would take a note from Nikon and introduce a Flat Profile that isn't quite C-Log, but is kind of a C-Log Lite. If their lower tiered models get that, and focus peaking as they slowly introduce 4K... they would regain a lot of customers. 

Another question to ask you Omar, which may help to make up your mind... how many native Canon lenses do you own? Also, how reliant are you on DPAF with your work, or how much would it help your work to have it in 4K, with C-Log? Are you planning on keeping your C100? Honestly, I think I already know the answers, so IMO the 5D4 makes the most sense. 

[Fritz Pierre]

10 minutes ago, mercer said:

I wish, at the bare minimum, they would take a note from Nikon and introduce a Flat Profile that isn't quite C-Log, but is kind of a C-Log Lite. If their lower tiered models get that, and focus peaking as they slowly introduce 4K... they would regain a lot of customers. 

Another question to ask you Omar, which may help to make up your mind... how many native Canon lenses do you own? Also, how reliant are you on DPAF with your work, or how much would it help your work to have it in 4K, with C-Log? Are you planning on keeping your C100? Honestly, I think I already know the answers, so IMO the 5D4 makes the most sense. 

I agree completely with Mercer on this....if the image out of the Canon is what you love, then the workaround to push a GH 5 to look like one, would prove laborious and unnecessary ...I'm of course on the Panasonic side of the spectrum in taste, but that's really irrelevant to your question...there's really no right or wrong...nothing more complicated than subjectivity at work here....the answer always lies in what you're trying to say/do/express with the camera, that's really nothing more than a tool...the more the camera gets out of your way, the better your project will turn out...I would never dream of buying a Canon or a Sony, which I would then grade to get it to look like an image from a GH5....

[mercer]

20 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Its odd how Canon don't have anything in that area and have just let Panasonic and Sony have a clear run with the FZ1000/2500 and the RX10.

The XC10 had the requisite spec for them to spin it into a consumer/prosumer rival to them and potentially dominated.

Yeah the XC10 was almost there. It was a joy to shoot with, even with its issues. The 4K C-Log was insane  but again I didn't love the small sensor. I think I just like bigger sensor cameras with interchangeable lenses. Now if I can find an XC10 for less than $1000 used, I may pick one up again.

I would love to shoot Canon 4K again, but everything is out of my price range. Here's hoping for a 6D2 with 4K... and C-Log... and focus peaking... LOL. 

[Rinad Amir]

19 hours ago, mercer said:

Oh yeah, great camera that a lot of great videos will be shot with. Of course, I can argue that the maker of those videos will make great "art" no matter what camera they use. For the beginner or intermediate user... the GH5 won't be as forgiving. Let me ask you though, if Canon 5D Mark IV had IBIS and 4K slow motion, would you still want a GH5? 

Also, I wasn't suggesting people buy a 5D3 and shoot Raw. I was just explaining my experience and why I went with a Canon. This post is about a choice between the GH5 and the 5D4. As is, from what I've seen, I'd choose the Canon... just my opinion. 

Well id still pick GH5 key points are

low cost ,v-log,180fps,dualcards,focuspeaking,IBIS,4k60p,10BIT, there is alot more to list but am bothered to be honest 

If 5d mark4 had does features and was at same pricepoint then id never switched to GH5 as i was Canon user my self 

now to me its all about features since we are in 2017 things get better and smaller so if canon stingy enough to include all this great stuff for us than why the hell invest in them?

i dont see logic in this at all , i mean you have to hack their dslrs with ML to get Raw! why dint Canon included this in 5dmark4? when they know people use it and its widely spread

Maybe because they want you to get their CinemaLine?

well anyways who gives shit if you like it thats what matters 

thank you

 

 

 

[tomekk]

Doesn't every camera which shoot raw stills is capable of delivering raw video? It's more or less just  a straight data dump to a media card limited by interface's speed. If so, GH5 is capable of doing it and why not all manufacturers enable it? Canon is not the only one holding back this feature! 

[tweak]

26 minutes ago, tomekk said:

Doesn't every camera which shoot raw stills is capable of delivering raw video? It's more or less just  a straight data dump to a media card limited by interface's speed. If so, GH5 is capable of doing it and why not all manufacturers enable it? Canon is not the only one holding back this feature! 

Correct. Raw video actually requires less demand from hardware, all cameras with fast enough write speed can achieve it. GH5 certainly could, so don't go bad mouthing Canon for not delivering Raw video when no one else is (except Blackmagic) in that price range... I still think GH5 is the more versatile production tool for most people, but I could see cases where a 5DIV would be the advantage, right tool for the right job  .

[gt3rs]

5 hours ago, DaveAltizer said:

 

I have found a very significant different in my MJPG 4k because of that 4:2:2 codec. Its great...once you transcode it...

 

What kind of software / hw are you using for editing?

In Resolve basically any quad core i7 with a gtx 1050 and up is able to edit in real-time the MJPEG even at 4k 60fps.

I even tested on a Dell XPS Notebook i7 7700HQ, GTX 1050 4 GB Vram, 16 GB Ram, SSD and it is fast enough for real-time editing,  scrubbing is super fast and you can even do some real-time grading.   

[mercer]

54 minutes ago, Rinad Amir said:

Well id still pick GH5 key points are

low cost ,v-log,180fps,dualcards,focuspeaking,IBIS,4k60p,10BIT, there is alot more to list but am bothered to be honest 

If 5d mark4 had does features and was at same pricepoint then id never switched to GH5 as i was Canon user my self 

now to me its all about features since we are in 2017 things get better and smaller so if canon stingy enough to include all this great stuff for us than why the hell invest in them?

i dont see logic in this at all , i mean you have to hack their dslrs with ML to get Raw! why dint Canon included this in 5dmark4? when they know people use it and its widely spread

Maybe because they want you to get their CinemaLine?

well anyways who gives shit if you like it thats what matters 

thank you

 

 

 

Right, as long as you're happy, that's all that matters. Like I said earlier... that's why they make vanilla and chocolate. 

But to be fair, some of your points are a little misleading...

low cost... sure the GH5 is only $2000 and the 5D4 is $3200, but when you add the cost of a couple lenses, the price of the GH5 increases by a lot. There aren't many cheap native lenses in M4/3 mount. Since the OP probably already owns Canon lenses, then that is a little money he'll be saving. 

Vlog ... cLog... to film internally with the GH5 and VLog you need 10bit, cLog is optimized for 8bit footage... so that is a wash. But you also have to pay for the VLog update, with 5D4, it will be free. 

I believe the 5D4 has dual card slots. Focus peaking would be nice, but with DPAF you almost don't really need it... but I agree that's a plus for the GH5.

180fps and 4K 60p are definite pluses for the GH5, although 4K 60p is in that dreaded 8bit. Still cool feature though. 

Now I agree that Canon should include more, hopefully this competition will push them to.

Good luck with the GH5. 

[omar]

4 hours ago, mercer said:

I wish, at the bare minimum, they would take a note from Nikon and introduce a Flat Profile that isn't quite C-Log, but is kind of a C-Log Lite. If their lower tiered models get that, and focus peaking as they slowly introduce 4K... they would regain a lot of customers. 

Another question to ask you Omar, which may help to make up your mind... how many native Canon lenses do you own? Also, how reliant are you on DPAF with your work, or how much would it help your work to have it in 4K, with C-Log? Are you planning on keeping your C100? Honestly, I think I already know the answers, so IMO the 5D4 makes the most sense. 

I own 5 canon lenses. DPAF is great but I don't necessarily need it but helps a lot in certain situations so I'd prefer to have it. My clients don't demand 4K yet since most of my stuff is for the web and yes I plan on keeping my c100. 

One of my main reasons for switching to panny was because of that new cine cam coming out. If it's a game changer I was considering to buy the gh5 sell the c100 and buy that new Panasonic camera. But just not sure how good that image will look compared to a c100/c300. So if this camera is not game changing then I'm keeping my c100 and buying the 5d iv. 

But overall canon is my favorite image above all. So I'll probably be staying with canon either way lol.  To me the image looks more filmic than other brands. Of course if u have an amazing DP he/she can make any camera image look great but with canon you don't have to do much work from my experience and IMO canon looks better. 

[Rinad Amir]

9 minutes ago, mercer said:

Right, as long as you're happy, that's all that matters. Like I said earlier... that's why they make vanilla and chocolate. 

But to be fair, some of your points are a little misleading...

low cost... sure the GH5 is only $2000 and the 5D4 is $3200, but when you add the cost of a couple lenses, the price of the GH5 increases by a lot. There aren't many cheap native lenses in M4/3 mount. Since the OP probably already owns Canon lenses, then that is a little money he'll be saving. 

Vlog ... cLog... to film internally with the GH5 and VLog you need 10bit, cLog is optimized for 8bit footage... so that is a wash. But you also have to pay for the VLog update, with 5D4, it will be free. 

I believe the 5D4 has dual card slots. Focus peaking would be nice, but with DPAF you almost don't really need it... but I agree that's a plus for the GH5.

180fps and 4K 60p are definite pluses for the GH5, although 4K 60p is in that dreaded 8bit. Still cool feature though. 

Now I agree that Canon should include more, hopefully this competition will push them to.

Good luck with the GH5. 

Hey @mercer id like to apologize mate you right thats why they introduced vanila &chocolate lol 

Have you tried GH5 yet? if you dint do it rent one  make sure you try IBIS with dual is Lenses ,u gona be blown away its almost like gimbal feel

Clog its not 100% free anyhow its only rumors you have to wait and see if their really love their followers lol 

"“There is no mention whether or not this will be a service you will have to pay for or not, or if future EOS 5D Mark IV cameras will ship with the feature,” Canon Rumors writes. “While we cannot confirm this information at present"

V-log shoots 8bit and 10bit (yes we do have to pay ,atlest Panna giving people to chance save some money if they dont want extra feature )

And as for savings cost comon man OP have to get fullframe lenses External monitor(waveforms peaking 3dluts etc) as their is no articulating screen on 5d

 

 

 

[docmoore]

...

[gelaxstudio]

Why buy a FF camera that only can shot crop 4K  video？

And MJPEG for work？Seriously？

[mercer]

43 minutes ago, gelaxstudio said:

Why buy a FF camera that only can shot crop 4K  video？

And MJPEG for work？Seriously？

It's just a codec that edits easily and looks good... what's the difference?

[tweak]

2 hours ago, gelaxstudio said:

Why buy a FF camera that only can shot crop 4K  video？

And MJPEG for work？Seriously？

Because you also want a full frame camera for stills and 1080p?

MJPEG has better motion imo.

You could say the same things about lots of cameras...

Why buy a GH4 that crops for 4K???

Why buy a GH5 when it's footage wasn't fully supported in NLE's???

BLA BLA BLA... etc.