Super 16 Lenses for Pocket Cinema?

[andy lee]

Andy, this almost sounds too good to be true.

 

Excuse me for being so lazy:

 

> Can they be adapted without problems? 

> Can the zoom servos be activated, and if, how?

yes I have a B4 to Micro 4/3 adaptor off ebay

it fits very well

and yes you can activate the servos - there is a guy in the USA on ebay who sells a cable that rigs up the servo to a IDX battery

 

Ive worked with cinematographer Tony Coldwell in the past he's DOP'd pop vidoes for me on Super 16.

I met up with him last November and we where talking about the Fujinons and how good they are

he is also now using these Fujinon B4 lenses on the Alexa too

they have a massive zoom range and are fast and sharp - thats all you need!!

these lenses are made for HD Broadcast

[Ernesto Mantaras]

I just picked up one of these 3.5-8mm c mount zooms - very well made and very cheap!

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Professional-CCTV-lens-3-5-8mm-varifocal-manual-iris-CS-/160426428637?pt=UK_CCTV&hash=item255a2908dd

 

So do you think this lens would cover the BMPC sensor? I still haven't received my Pentax 25mm f1.4, but the look I've seen on the GH2 is great. If I can get a similar look on the BMPC with that zoom I'll be satisfied!

Thanks for the cool recommendations you're throwing.

[Julian]

That lens will nowhere near cover it. I'll show it tomorrow with my $8 8mm f/1.2.

[Ernesto Mantaras]

That lens will nowhere near cover it. I'll show it tomorrow with my $8 8mm f/1.2.

 

It'll be great to see that GH2 test you mentioned. Let us know once it's done!

[Rungunshoot]

I just googled "c-mount 1" format lens" and got several similar results that look promising.  Seems like one could put together a pretty good primes kit with these.  The average f-stop seems to be f/1.4, which should provide at least some shallow DOF effect at longer focal lengths.

 

They all follow the same basic focal length increments:

 

6mm (18mm equivalent)

8mm (24mm eq)

12.5mm (38mm eq)

16mm (48mm eq)

25mm (75mm eq)

35mm (105mm eq)

50mm (150mm eq)

75mm (225mm eq)

 

http://1stvision.com/lens/fujinon-lens.html

 

http://www.navitar.com/product/navitar-machine-vision-1-format.aspx

 

http://www.edmundoptics.com/imaging/imaging-lenses/fixed-focal-length-lenses/1-inch-format-fixed-focal-length-lenses/3127

[tonyk]

Good though they may be, Fujinon B4 glass are certainly not "budget" lenses, which the orginal post was asking about. Also, these were made for two-thirds cameras and I question coverage on Super 16mm at the wide end. Any comments?

[Axel]

@Rungunshoot

Before buying any of those (around $500 price range), I'd rather wait 'til they are produced by SLR magic or others (or abuse some of the cheaper or older lenses Andy listed). I expect the BM Pocket to be a bestseller, it will push MFT tremendously and people will demand wide angle lenses. Panasonic and the other MFT sellers say 'thanks BM'!

 

Until then, there are two existing MFT lenses that allow a run&gun style (equaling 36mm, the classic reporter's focus length) and are fast enough to provide some shallow DoF, this is the SLR magic 12mm (originally an observation lens as well) and the Olympus 12mm (with the automatic functions working, I am curious to see the auto exposure work with the 13 stops and high iso).

 

As for a standard lens, why not the Lumix pancake 14mm that's seen on the camera on the BM site? (EDIT: I know 50 mm is considered standard, but that's valid only for a 3:2 aspect ratio, it would be 47 mm for 16:9, 42 mm is a good compromise. You wouldn't shoot portrait close ups with it, but as far as portrait lenses are concerned, there are of course hundreds of options for MFT.)

 

With the BM cameras, we will see another game changing. It will no longer be about 'as shallow a DoF as possible'. There is nothing special about that any more. It will start to be about image quality. We are not yet fully aware of the avalanche that has been triggered. Ordinary hobbyists will buy the BM Pocket for under $1000 (in Germany, you can order it for 894,88 €, that's almost 200 € less than the GH3, body only). They will be able, at least, to use Resolve lite 10 for free, which has more editing features than #9 and works platform independant (a very shy love relationship between BM and Apple has to be acknowledged though). They will be told that RAW as well as ProRes 422 10-bit provide better quality than their pathetic '16,7 million colors' display can handle. They will be convinced by the industry that their old displays don't suffice anymore. They will buy 10-bit monitors (a few years ago 5-10.000 bucks, now starting at ~500, allegedly Dell has some good and affordable models. BTW: This is a serious limitation for all iMac users. Their displays are 8-bit. Probably there is/will be a solution from BM, I don't know, BM says 'thank you Apple'). They will learn to see the higher quality (frankly, it's easier to see than the difference between, say, 720p and 1080p). 

 

This is what I call a change.

 

EDIT: We can only speculate which lenses will be best for the Pocket. Sensor size, lens characteristics, post-debayering, we simply can't tell how these things influence each other. I really think it's wise to start with the most basic pancake and then collect experiences.

[andy lee]

Sigma EX 10-20mm F/4.0-5.6 is worth looking at

I used this on the BMCC camera and it works well at the 2.3 crop of that camera so at 3x it will work well too

- it does have some distortion at the edges

but it is a very useful zoom range great outside in daylight  with nds

you dont mind that its not a fast lens then

with a canon to micro 4/3 adaptor you can just use it wide open

[Bioskop.Inc]

Not sure if these links have been posted here, but they're a useful reminder (even if they have):

 

http://cinematechnic.com/resources/optics_for_super-16.html

 

https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p9kkgjwEQQQ-HJwvNDobeEw

 

http://www.c-mountlens.com/2011/bolex-reflex-rx-lenses-the-difference/

[zoltax]

Hello all.

I just pre-ordered my BMC Pocket.

I just wonder, and here goes my question, how would be it to use with 16mm STANDARD lenses instead of S16mm? I know the FOV would be limited, but anyway, here's what I have

10mm, 16mm, 25mm Switac C Mont Lens
10-100 KernSwittar ZOom Lens Bayo Mount.

16mm, 25mm Schneider Arri ST Mount Lens.
5.7 Kinoptik Arri ST Mount Lens.

Can anyone help me to identify those would have no vignetting? OR in which mm in the pocket camera would start to happen?

Thanks everybody!

Flavio

[Brellivids]

There is this Samyang 7.5mm for the micro four thirds mount. I have no idea on how it performs.

 

http://www.samyang-lens.co.uk/samyang-75mm-f35-umc-fisheye-mft.html

 

 

It's 22.5 mm on the BMPCC

[Brellivids]

A video review of the Samyang 7.5mm (Aparently allso by other brands like Bower and Rokinon)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl8W99biLmU

[clanterns]

A video review of the Samyang 7.5mm (Aparently allso by other brands like Bower and Rokinon)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl8W99biLmU

That would be like a last resort for me, if my thinking is right, no DOF with that lens.

[Ernesto Mantaras]

Hey, guys, what about this lens? The Pentax 8-48mm f1.0.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/341297-REG/Pentax_C60812_C60812_8mm_to_48mm.html

I know it says it is for 1/2" sensors, but it amazed me how sharp and free of CA (for the most part) it is! I saw how it performs on a video tested using a GH2 on ETC mode (which effectively turns it roughly into a 1/2" camera).

 

https://vimeo.com/25024473

Is it too much of a stretch to think it will be useable on the BMPC?
 

[Julian]

1/2" is about half of the BMPCC sensor. It's not going to work.

 

I tested al my C-mount lenses and made the topic: http://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/2513-pocket-cinema-camera-c-mount-compatibility-list/

 

Hope you guys can add to it! would be nice to see some C-mount zooms for 1" sensors. They should work.

[Sergei Vasilyev]

Fujinon B4 Eng lenses are very good

They are fast and have very long par focal zooms

I have a 6.5-92mm f1.4  and a 9-100mm f1.8

both have 2x extenders you can filp in and out

You can shoot a whole film almost on one lens with these

The HD versions are very very sharp

So, if the initial f-stop was 1.8, and with 2x extender it's f3.6 on s16 sensor? And the  fullframe equivalent even f5.4? Or it's looks not that dark how it's sounds?  :)

[andy lee]

you dont need the 2x extender in all the time for s16 - (you do for GH2 m4/3 I keep it in )

depending on which b4 zoom lens you have

some of the zoom ranges will fit the sensor

[Sergei Vasilyev]

andy, you had a chance to compare these lenses with similar  Canon lenses? I'm very interested in purchasing this zoom lens, but I don't know to which give preference.

[andy lee]

both Canon and Fujinon ENG lenses are great

(ENG= Electronic News Gathering)

these lenses are made for Digibeta Cameras for News Cameramen

the idea is one lens that lets you shoot every senario live news coverage throws at you!

 

so they have fast appertures and massive par focal zooms and a 2x extender built in

 

News Tv stations use both Canon and Fujinon there is not much differance in quaility

[Brellivids]

In relation to my orginal SLR magic thread.  Dear Andrew. Why so hasty Lock for my thread?

 

You posted this line.

SLR Magic's current lenses the 12mm F1.6, 25mm F0.95, 35mm T0.95 and 50mm T0.95 HyperPrime CINE are original optical designs.

 

Do you mean by that wording.. that SLR magic is the designer of the lenses? Or just that they are a provider of orginal optical designs which basically can mean all lenses that they sell / distribute. I like to do detective work as it would seem so do you.

 

I would have liked a discussion on the subject. In nowhere on SLR magic site do they say that they design the lenses them selves. That is what I asume you were implying.