Canon C200 and Panasonic rival camera to fight it out at CineGear Expo

[Alt Shoo]

Definitely agree the JVC-GYLS300 is already a viable option. I really don't understand the lack of interest for this camera. 

[ND64]

What makes Canon Dual Pixel a superior solution is mostly its software side, not the huge number of AF pixels it employs. Sony is already way faster in reading out the AF data. The problem is the way they calculate that data. Sony put all their energy into hardware performance that seems forgot they need to fine tune the codes. 

[Trek of Joy]

On 5/20/2017 at 1:10 AM, Kisaha said:

Canon has to move into mobile phone's territory, look at Leica and others, it is an industry they will never compete, it's better to get something -imagine a mobile phone "powered by Canon"- that will appeal to a lot of Canon lovers (and they are a bunch), than nothing to do at all, in the biggest retail industry in the whole world.

Been saying for years, IMO, one of CaNikon's biggest blunders was holding onto compacts and ignoring the smartphone world, instead of getting in bed with Apple or Samsung and developing smartphone lenses and embedding color science into their phone processing. Cameras quickly became the most scrutinized feature of most phones along with the display. Huawei is making huge gains and their flagship has the Leica lenses - lending photo cred to a device by simply having name recognition and separating them from the rest. They don't even have an app to get the Cannon or Nikon "signature look", SMH.

[Geoff CB]

4 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:

Been saying for years, IMO, one of CaNikon's biggest blunders was holding onto compacts and ignoring the smartphone world, instead of getting in bed with Apple or Samsung and developing smartphone lenses and embedding color science into their phone processing. Cameras quickly became the most scrutinized feature of most phones along with the display. Huawei is making huge gains and their flagship has the Leica lenses - lending photo cred to a device by simply having name recognition and separating them from the rest. They don't even have an app to get the Cannon or Nikon "signature look", SMH.

*Image Processing by Nikon* would definitely make me take a second look at a phone.

[ssrdd]

Panasonic cant do proper focus in gh5 video mode. Its stupid to expect auto focus on their semi pro video cameras. They just cant do. Panasonic varicam Lt might have good image but its bulky for what it offers and cropped 240fps has big diapponiting noise levels, only if they come sony[fs7] or canon[c300] battery style and decent  slomo video with out crop and no rebooting during the shoots and great focussing abilities can only save what ever the camera they release. other wise we will wait for 2018 cinegear or 2019,20,21,22[like canon] NAB if not we may not wait and move on to something. 

[Kisaha]

@ssrdd I am waiting for a 4K C100 type of camera 1 and a half year now! The LS300 @Alt Shoo mentioned is a great option in 3000euros, +1000 for a Atomos, you have 4K/60p, great (and too many) codec options, variable sensor (native m43 and whatever else through adapters) and a 7" monitor (the Atomos), and a great run and gun 4:2:2 camera on its own with Prime zoom function.

[zerocool22]

20 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Guys, the solution is already done, LS300, variable sensor.

Ursa mini pro for me, I dont see anything else coming close to it. 

[Fritz Pierre]

On 5/20/2017 at 6:51 PM, IronFilm said:

Don't get mount and sensor size mixed up. 

My dream is it is a locking MFT mount! 

M4/3 mount and S35 sensor would truly be the dope!!!

On 5/20/2017 at 6:54 PM, Kisaha said:

Guys, the solution is already done, LS300, variable sensor.

Exactly...plus Panny's been cropping their M4/3 sensor for ETC for years!

[Fritz Pierre]

The mystery cam won't have AF...especially not after the complaints and feedback on the GH5...Panasonic probably thought flooding the GH5 with even more pro features and IBIS and better color and great slow mo would do it...and I'm sure for most it does...I saw a ML example shot of Rome on the 5D mk3 where the banding in the sky made the internal on the GH4 look fantastic and the rolling shutter at the end like something you'd expect from old technology...but not a peep about either...just comments about the color...the reality is, if you love the colors from Canon, nothing Panasonic's going to do is going to be enough, so I'm hoping for a simple smaller version in the Varicam Line...robust and geared to Cine use which is how they describe it...it won't be a run & gun style camera (plenty of choices among Sonys or Canons for that market anyway) so why go there...it can distinguish itself by being a solid Indy camera...built in ND...bigger sensor than GH5...etc. and one more stop in DR will forever satisfy Panasonic users and for those really interested, put to bed the not enough DR and low light performance, and with most  Canon users, Panasonic is not what they want anyway...so why bother...Panasonic is going after the upper end Cine cam market and this may be another great offering to expand that line.

[tugela]

On ‎5‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 9:55 PM, tyger11 said:

Sony has a DPAF patent: http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-patented-dual-pixel-sensor-similar-canon-version/

 

Having a patent and being able to use it are two completely different things. Canon's patent has broad priority, so in order to use the tech Sony would have to license it from Canon (not going to happen). Canon on the other hand can use their tech, but just not those unique aspects that are covered by Sony's claims. So, Canon can use it but Sony cannot.

Owning a patent does NOT necessarily give you freedom to operate, particularly if your claims fall under the umbrella of older broader claims. If your patent claims fall under the broader umbrella of someone else's claims, you have to license their patent or you can't use it.

[jgharding]

This is just about as late as they can leave it.

Having been on C100 MK1 for years for the standard budget level work where Amira can't be hired in, it's annoying not to have anything over 30p and no 4K.

It absolutely needs 4k/30p at least, and 1080/100p wouldn't go amiss.

Otherwise I'm off to get a GH5 to cover those needs. Money is waiting, Canon!

[HelsinkiZim]

This is my Twin Peaks moment.

Basically we are waiting for a AF101 with a 4K 35mm sensor.

Oh my god are we fools...

[omega1978]

 

[Fritz Pierre]

OK...last guess...M4/3 locking (pro style) mount on S35 variable sensor...for use with native Panny lenses as well as everything else...no AF...no EVF...built in ND...4K up to 60p...SSD for media allowing internal Prores at 800mbps...both HDMI and SDI out for EVF and XLR for sound...no RAW internally and maybe 2K at 180p...G mount or V mount for power...all cables exiting at 45 degrees from rear of the camera....touch screen LCD for accessing menus and some good old fashioned buttons and knobs for basic functions...13 stops DR...between $7000 & $10,000...all the focus and exposure tools in the Varicam LT

[zerocool22]

4 hours ago, Fritz Pierre said:

OK...last guess...M4/3 locking (pro style) mount on S35 variable sensor...for use with native Panny lenses as well as everything else...no AF...no EVF...built in ND...4K up to 60p...SSD for media allowing internal Prores at 800mbps...both HDMI and SDI out for EVF and XLR for sound...no RAW internally and maybe 2K at 180p...G mount or V mount for power...all cables exiting at 45 degrees from rear of the camera....touch screen LCD for accessing menus and some good old fashioned buttons and knobs for basic functions...13 stops DR...between $7000 & $10,000...all the focus and exposure tools in the Varicam LT

Hope for Panasonic that is not the case. Why on earth would you get this over a UMP.

[tyger11]

1 hour ago, zerocool22 said:

Hope for Panasonic that is not the case. Why on earth would you get this over a UMP.

A lot depends on size and price, as well as mount. Lots of people thinking it's EF-only. Possibly swappable mount, but complete guesses at this point.

UMP is too big for a lot of use cases; if this is more in line with an FS5, right there it's got a big advantage over the UMP.

[Christof Haberle]

They do have GH-5 / G-85's IBIS hardware & software that could / would be fairly unique if they'd managed to build that in for handheld use. But ... eh - given no-one did that for a camera like this I doubt they will.

[mercer]

8 minutes ago, Christof Haberle said:

They do have GH-5 / G-85's IBIS hardware & software that could / would be fairly unique if they'd managed to build that in for handheld use. But ... eh - given no-one did that for a camera like this I doubt they will.

I think they would be horribly dumb if they don't include 5-axis into this cine camera... it could be one thing that really sets them apart. Of course I also think they should go the JVC route and use the m4/3 mount with a S35mm sensor but it doesn't seem like they're doing that... so what do I know. 

[Fritz Pierre]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

I think they would be horribly dumb if they don't include 5-axis into this cine camera... it could be one thing that really sets them apart. Of course I also think they should go the JVC route and use the m4/3 mount with a S35mm sensor but it doesn't seem like they're doing that... so what do I know. 

They may do it...the mount part I mean....the "photo" they showed of the camera means almost nothing...almost looks like a FS5...for the re

[Fritz Pierre]

3 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

Hope for Panasonic that is not the case. Why on earth would you get this over a UMP.

I'm not sure why...I have a few projects in developement...although I would personally use the Varicam LT and a DP for the first, if I was making an Indy film for say $500,000, would I risk the BMD camera, or would I use a camera made by a company the size of Panasonic....personally I love the image their cameras produce...the ergonomics and the incredible reliability of their cams....I've owned 6 and none of them ever skipped a beat...if my film was at stake, that's what I would consider...not whether this camera has AF or it's within $2,000 of an UM...who cares, if the camera fails, and your project collapses...and you're struggling with a small company to back you up...but of course...that's me...and that's what would be important to me...your needs and choices are different...so are your considerations...but I don't think if Panasonic produced a simple robust Cine camera, for the purposes of say shooting low budget projects, people will reject it..for the UM...people who love BMD will go that way regardless as will people who love Panasonic with the Panny...whether 6000 or 10,000...one buys a camera in this price range, because you're using it to shoot commercials or films or tv, but it's already inside the category, of having to earn money for you...otherwise the dslr style cameras are just fine for day to day, or professional work, depending on what clients require...and within most people's budget.