Would You Perhaps Be Interested In A Different GX80/85 Colour Profile???

[BTM_Pix]

If you look at the corrupted files in VLC there is no codec information.

I've just taken an example HD file off the G7 and a corrupted 200mps one and compared them in a hex editor and copied the section that I suspect holds the codec identifiers into the corrupted file. 

This then displays the codec as expected when you open the corrupted file in VLC.

It still doesn't play any video but will open in QuickTime and play black for the correct length.

The file sizes it creates are relative to each other (i.e. a 10 second clip will be twice the size of a 5 second clip) but they're not the size you'd expect to see versus the 50mps 'real' files which should of course be much smaller but are actually only about 20% smaller.

So there is something there but it would take a lot more work to get to the bottom of it and then if it is related to the headers then it would also need a conversion app to correct before you could use the files and of course they would not be playable in camera. Thats a lot of ifs and a lot of graft. 

[jonpais]

15 hours ago, QB3 said:

I'm not an expert in LOG, but I would like to mention that with my G7 cams ETTR+CineD works fine for me in my studio, but I get weird and even unusable results under bright spotlights (like theatre or concert lighting). I've had blown highlights with weird colors even with zero zebras on screen. And using multiple cams I get the same weird results sometimes. So it could be that there is a condition in which ETTR is fooled by the camera somehow, depending on both the lights and the subject material. However, in the studio under controlled lighting I get a bit more DR with ETTR (tested with Leeming LUT and my own LUTS).

At least you were smart enough to reset it, I just happily filmed away........

I just shot this with direct light hitting the lens, zebras filled the window to the left, mixed daylight/tungsten. Lumix G85, CineLike D, ISO 800, Leica DG Summilux at f/1.4, SOOC.

Edit: Incidentally, the footage at ISO 800 is noisy as f***, I'd never go beyond that with the G85.

[Novim]

The best discovery since Alfred Einstein's autoexposure. A new life for my dear GX85.

[Grimor]

9 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Thats a lot of ifs and a lot of graft. 

I tried differents video repairs tools with no luck.

Beside the corrupt files, are there other settings we can play with?

Color_mode, video_quality, ...

Anamorphic 4k and 4.2.2 colour subsamplig will be interesting tries.

Do you know how the app request it from Gh4/Gh5 ?

[BTM_Pix]

19 minutes ago, Grimor said:

I tried differents video repairs tools with no luck.

Beside the corrupt files, are there other settings we can play with?

Color_mode, video_quality, ...

Anamorphic 4k and 4.2.2 colour subsamplig will be interesting tries.

Do you know how the app request it from Gh4/Gh5 ?

Looking at the user manual online for the FZ2000/2500, it refers to being able to switch the recording mode in the video menu between AVCHD,MP4,MP4(LPCM) and MOV

ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/camera/om/dmc-fz2500_en_adv_om.pdf

It describes MP4(LPCM) as the "data format for image editing" and it is this mode that needs to be selected on the camera to use the 200mps All-I formats etc.

So with them calling them Editing formats, thats the mystery of what the "ed" in those mp4ed_**** ones means.

Now, the GX85 doesn't have that selectable in its menu so I need to do a session with an FZ2000 to see if its selectable via the app.

But I haven't got that camera so will have to try and blag a demo of one to do it.

Still won't get us anywhere if the camera doesn't want to play though.

As I keep saying, all we are doing is telling it to do something like "make me a cheeseburger" which is fine but we are relying on the camera understanding what a cheeseburger is and having the raw ingredients to put it together itself. We can't with this method get down into that component ingredient level.

[Grimor]

It's like a "hide a seek" game with panasonic guys.

Again, awesome findings you make, seens you are one step forward!

Mp4ed mistery solved!

And now if someone have an FZ2500 and can upload any 1080p 200/100mbps 25p .mov footage we can try to repair headers from my files.

[JBraddock]

3 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Looking at the user manual online for the FZ2000/2500, it refers to being able to switch the recording mode in the video menu between AVCHD,MP4,MP4(LPCM) and MOV

ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/camera/om/dmc-fz2500_en_adv_om.pdf

It describes MP4(LPCM) as the "data format for image editing" and it is this mode that needs to be selected on the camera to use the 200mps All-I formats etc.

So with them calling them Editing formats, thats the mystery of what the "ed" in those mp4ed_**** ones means.

Now, the GX85 doesn't have that selectable in its menu so I need to do a session with an FZ2000 to see if its selectable via the app.

But I haven't got that camera so will have to try and blag a demo of one to do it.

Still won't get us anywhere if the camera doesn't want to play though.

As I keep saying, all we are doing is telling it to do something like "make me a cheeseburger" which is fine but we are relying on the camera understanding what a cheeseburger is and having the raw ingredients to put it together itself. We can't with this method get down into that component ingredient level.

My GX7 has a selectable menu for recording format, which includes only AVCHD and MP4.

Quote

 

<P><A HREF="http://192.168.54.1/cam.cgi?mode=setsetting&type=videoquality&value=mov_24p_50mbps">mov_24p_50mbps</A></P>

 

With the above command, I was able to issue recording in MOV format. The indicator on the screen changes to MOV and Rec Format options only has MOV option while Rec Quality has the new MOV recording option. And if I press the record button, the camera does lock itself up. The leveller on the screen still works but buttons do not function. Battery removal necessary. 

Do you think it is possible to add MOV recording alongside AVCHD and MP4 instead of replacing them?

 

GX7-Available Options in MOV activated.txt

GX7-Available Options in Default.txt

[BTM_Pix]

OK, a bit of an update....

As I'm still in the UK, I was able to go and visit the camera shop where I've bought a bit of kit over the past few years.

Because they know what my day job is they were virtually rushing to get a Sony A9 out of the cabinet as soon as I walked in so were a bit dismayed that all I wanted was to have 10 minutes with an FZ2000!

Anyway, here is the news.

I did a couple of test recordings of the 200mbps HD format so I could have a look at the files and compare them with what is coming out of a G7 when its making the corrupt files. 

I then captured a remote session to look into these MP4(LPCM) modes to see how they were selected from the app.

And then something caught my eye in Cinelike settings which I'll come back to in a bit.

So I ended up walking out with an example high bitrate file and a surreptitious capture of a remote session to look at the commands when selecting it.

And the camera shop ended up with no sale or even a whiff of an interest in the A9. Though they know I'll be back for something at some point!

Now I had the correct command I could be sure that we are sending the right one to the G7 (in this case) but we are still in exactly the same boat regarding the corrupted file. Copying the chunk of the real FZ2000 to it will persuade it QuickTime to play a black file of the correct length and VLC is identifying the codec (so I think I've got the right sector) but won't play it. 

The command is definitely in the "make me a cheeseburger" category as selecting the 200mbps format file will automatically change the camera into the MP4(LPCM) mode so there is no command from within the app to do this as it just happens as a package at the camera end. As the other cameras don't have that option then we are definitely in the territory of just prodding it with a stick to see if there is a fluke combination of formats to switch between that will make it do this combination internally.

The bottom line with that is that I'm going to have to throw it back out there for everyone else to pick up their own sticks and prod their cameras for this one as I need to be getting on with the other thing. And being a bit selfish about this, its a bit of a diminishing return for me effort wise as I'd sooner plug it into a second hand ninja star to get edit ready prores if I was looking to up the HD quality for me. Or actually even chop in my FZ1000 against an FZ2000 if they come down in price a bit as it is a seductive camera with features like that, the NDs and the VLOG option.

///EDIT 

The FZ2000 files are NOT playable in the G7 so I think this might be a big clue as to this hunt ultimately not bearing any fruit

//////

OK, sad part over, what about what caught my eye?

Well, the FZ2000 has an additional control in Cinelike D for shifting the colour tone of the whole image. 

It has a plus and minus control which shifts to violet/magenta and yellow/green respectively. And this is independent of the white balance.

Now, I think that is a very interesting little function that people could be able to manipulate to create some profiles that are more akin to other manufacturers favoured tones?

And when I say that the FZ2000 has got that Hue function, what I of course mean is that now we've all got it

Big caveat here is that I have only tried this on the G7 as thats all that I've got to hand at the moment but it should work on the others too but please test it and let everyone know if it does or not for your camera.

Updated html file attached to enable it and I've used values that will get it going for you but please make your own experiments by just editing the last number in the command to shift it in the direction you want. I have no idea what the range is so I've set it at 5 either way so you can see the effect but tweak away until you find the end points! 

Enjoy and please report back if it works for your camera so everyone can share the results.

 

DEPLOY CINELIKE D AND V WITH HUE.html

[BTM_Pix]

32 minutes ago, JBraddock said:

My GX7 has a selectable menu for recording format, which includes only AVCHD and MP4.

With the above command, I was able to issue recording in MOV format. The indicator on the screen changes to MOV and Rec Format options only has MOV option while Rec Quality has the new MOV recording option. And if I press the record button, the camera does lock itself up. The leveller on the screen still works but buttons do not function. Battery removal necessary. 

Do you think it is possible to add MOV recording alongside AVCHD and MP4 instead of replacing them?

 

GX7-Available Options in MOV activated.txt

GX7-Available Options in Default.txt

Yes, the extended modes are only available in cameras such as the FZ2000 that support them 'properly' as it where but there does seem to be some sort of ability for the cameras to interpret the command and have a go at making it happen !

Its frustrating in that I have had it in that mode that you are describing once where it did a runaway recording that needed a battery pull.

What I've experienced a few times (including just now doing a re-test) is that it won't always switch into the mov mode which supports what I was saying about people needing to do matrix testing to find out which state the camera must be in before it will switch. It will actually show you MOV mode when you go into the menu when you manage to get it into this mode but it will need a lot of testing to determine which mode you had to be in before that to allow it to happen.

Recordings I've made with it in this mode, exhibit the same issues as the other modes people are attempting to wake up and produces corrupt files.

However, what I've found when I've been in this mode (aside from that one time) is that the recording can be stopped on the camera.

It might (and I stress might) be the case that when its in the runaway state that it might actually be doing what we want it to and recording the higher bitrate video.

If you or anyone else gets it in that mode again, make sure you are doing it whilst the wifi is connected and that way it might still respond to incoming remote commands.

So, the test would be to get it into the MOV mode, press record on the camera, if it doesn't stop when you press record on the camera then give it this command through the browser.

http://192.168.54.1/cam.cgi?mode=camcmd&value=video_recstop

[mercer]

4 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Looking at the user manual online for the FZ2000/2500, it refers to being able to switch the recording mode in the video menu between AVCHD,MP4,MP4(LPCM) and MOV

ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/camera/om/dmc-fz2500_en_adv_om.pdf

It describes MP4(LPCM) as the "data format for image editing" and it is this mode that needs to be selected on the camera to use the 200mps All-I formats etc.

So with them calling them Editing formats, thats the mystery of what the "ed" in those mp4ed_**** ones means.

Now, the GX85 doesn't have that selectable in its menu so I need to do a session with an FZ2000 to see if its selectable via the app.

But I haven't got that camera so will have to try and blag a demo of one to do it.

Still won't get us anywhere if the camera doesn't want to play though.

As I keep saying, all we are doing is telling it to do something like "make me a cheeseburger" which is fine but we are relying on the camera understanding what a cheeseburger is and having the raw ingredients to put it together itself. We can't with this method get down into that component ingredient level.

Man, Panasonic has some crappy ass manuals. MOV is the format used in fz2500 for 200mbps all-i.

[BTM_Pix]

4 minutes ago, mercer said:

Man, Panasonic has some crappy ass manuals. MOV is the format used in fz2500 for 200mbps all-i.

They might as well be in gif format for all the use they are on the other cameras unfortunately.

That FZ2000 has definitely batted its eyelashes at me though

[mercer]

2 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

They might as well be in gif format for all the use they are on the other cameras unfortunately.

That FZ2000 has definitely batted its eyelashes at me though

It's truly a fun camera. It just isn't worth the price tag to me. If this camera was a grand new and 6-8 hundred on the used market, I'd buy a third one and keep it. 

[BTM_Pix]

3 minutes ago, mercer said:

It's truly a fun camera. It just isn't worth the price tag to me. If this camera was a grand new and 6-8 hundred on the used market, I'd buy a third one and keep it. 

Its a grand here mate.

Just in pounds rather than dollars

It should be a couple of hundred above the still available FZ1000 I think though. So about £750 here. Maybe I should go in to another store and surreptitiously cripple one with dodgy commands and offer to take it off their hands for cheap !

[mercer]

3 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Its a grand here mate.

Just in pounds rather than dollars

It should be a couple of hundred above the still available FZ1000 I think though. So about £750 here. Maybe I should go in to another store and surreptitiously cripple one with dodgy commands and offer to take it off their hands for cheap !

? I wonder if that would work ? 

Seriously cool little cam though. When the FZ5000 comes out with 5-axis and the GH5's 10bit, I will definitely buy one for $1200 and if that doesn't happen I'll pick up the 2500 for $600 brand new. 

Another great aspect to the FZ2500 is the implementation of shutter angle. A lot of times I just shot Shutter Priority at 180 Shutter, used the NDs to trick the aperture wide open if I wanted it wide open then with the Q menu, I could easily switch between 24p or 60p 200mbps all-i. I think I did one test in 4K and felt the gain in resolution was minimal.

I always went handheld with a strap. The OIS isn't perfect but it sure as hell isnt bad. If I wasn't so lazy, the OIS and my Sirui monopod would have worked great together. I was going to bring out my slider to see just how "cinematic" I could get her to look, but... yeah... laziness. 

[Aeolian]

59 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

So, the test would be to get it into the MOV mode, press record on the camera, if it doesn't stop when you press record on the camera then give it this command through the browser.

http://192.168.54.1/cam.cgi?mode=camcmd&value=video_recstop

Here are my test results for the good old G6

1. send http://192.168.54.1/cam.cgi?mode=setsetting&type=videoquality&value=mov_60p_50mbps">mov_60p_50mbps

2. G6 returns ok, indicator on Screen: MOV, also in menu, same behaviour like GX7 (@JBraddock)

3. Press record button -> G6 in runaway state, no reaction on any button

4. send http://192.168.54.1/cam.cgi?mode=getinfo&type=curmenu

5. G6 returns the xml file,,,,ok camera still responding to wifi commands

6. send http://192.168.54.1/cam.cgi?mode=camcmd&value=video_recstop

7. G6 returns <result>err_reject</result>

8. G6 still in runaway state,,, have to remove battery

2nd test

1. send http://192.168.54.1/cam.cgi?mode=setsetting&type=videoquality&value=mov_60p_50mbps">mov_60p_50mbps

2. start Panasonic Image App und press record button in app

3. App returns something like "recording not possible in this mode"

4. remove battery

same behaviour for all mov modes in curmenu

[JBraddock]

1 minute ago, Aeolian said:

Here are my test results for the good old G6

1. send http://192.168.54.1/cam.cgi?mode=setsetting&type=videoquality&value=mov_60p_50mbps">mov_60p_50mbps

2. G6 returns ok, indicator on Screen: MOV, also in menu, same behaviour like GX7 (@JBraddock)

3. Press record button -> G6 in runaway state, no reaction on any button

4. send http://192.168.54.1/cam.cgi?mode=getinfo&type=curmenu

5. G6 returns the xml file,,,,ok camera still responding to wifi commands

6. send http://192.168.54.1/cam.cgi?mode=camcmd&value=video_recstop

7. G6 returns <result>err_reject</result>

8. G6 still in runaway state,,, have to remove battery

2nd test

1. send http://192.168.54.1/cam.cgi?mode=setsetting&type=videoquality&value=mov_60p_50mbps">mov_60p_50mbps

2. start Panasonic Image App und press record button in app

3. App returns something like "recording not possible in this mode"

4. remove battery

same behaviour for all mov modes in curmenu

@BTM_Pix In my case, the camera does not have any problem switching into MOV recording mode. I've saved this mode to C1 and when I switch to C1, the change also populates on Image app. In the app's settings, however, the recording format still does not appear as MOV.  

Here what I've also observed:

- The command -video_recstop- does not work. It produces 'err_reject'.

- When I press the record button, the recording camera icon appears on the top left corner.

- If I leave it untouched, the screen display changes and shows the remaining minutes and second albeit in a wrong format as does it during normal recording. The text does not change however. It is fixed at 86h26m etc.

- Panasonic Image App freezes in my case.

I was wondering what <item id="menu_item_id_videoformat" enable="no"/> does? Could there be a way to enable MOV in Recording format option alongside AVCHD and MP4? Perhaps the camera changes the recording format yet it still expects other settings?

 

 

[Aeolian]

Had the same idea and I tried sending the following to the camera with intention to do it before sending the videoquality command

http://192.168.54.1/cam.cgi?mode=setsetting&type=videoformat&value=mov

was rejected.

even http://192.168.54.1/cam.cgi?mode=setsetting&type=videoformat&value=mp4

did not work, so no idea what it does,,,,maybe also my syntax is wrong?

I am very thankful for further ideas or information.

[Grimor]

The way we know app change the recording format is "videoquality" so "videoformat" probably was a ilegal value.

@BTM_Pix your last discovery, (Hue changes?) works OK on G80.

Even make changes , magenta or yellow color cast, to whatever profile you are.

In order to try to recover corrupt files, can you upload those .mov you record with the FZ?

Thanks again.

[BTM_Pix]

54 minutes ago, JBraddock said:

 

I was wondering what <item id="menu_item_id_videoformat" enable="no"/> does? Could there be a way to enable MOV in Recording format option alongside AVCHD and MP4? Perhaps the camera changes the recording format yet it still expects other settings?

 

 

It tells the app from the camera which menus to offer to the user. By mimicking the camera side to the app, it might be possible to persuade it to show them but it would only allow the same commands that have been sent directly from the browser to be sent by the app so the end result will be the same if the camera doesn't fancy it. And it would be a lot of work to write something that mimicked the camera as the computer would have to act like a server amongst other things and because of the stay alive heartbeat between the app and the camera it would require effort that I fully expect would only prove what is already known. Which is that if the camera itself doesn't have the recipe or the ingredients to make a cheeseburger it will just not make a cheeseburger however nicely we ask.

Everyone is of course welcome to try that but I'm going to focus in another direction as I firmly believe that using this method will not bring additional formats and if it does then you are into another layer of additional work to create an app to massage the metadata and there will always be the limitation of no in camera playback.

The only nagging thing I have about it that might be worth trying is to set the region using the octopus boot up method to Japan. It is in no way guaranteed or expected but neither is it beyond the bounds of possibility that for its own domestic market, Panasonic may have additional functionality. 

 

------------------------------

 

When the cameras return a rejected message rather than an err_parameter it is usually indicative of it not being open for any sort of burger business, cheese or otherwise.

There are usually two scenarios for this.

1) The ImageApp is also running.

2) The camera is in a menu.

And number 3 is likely to be the one that is being seen here which is that it is utterly confused about the burger that you've just asked it to make, has set the kitchen on fire and the order window has been automatically closed by the sprinkler system.

If it could, it would be displaying this image on its rear screen 

 

[BTM_Pix]

32 minutes ago, Grimor said:

The way we know app change the recording format is "videoquality" so "videoformat" probably was a ilegal value.

@BTM_Pix your last discovery, (Hue changes?) works OK on G80.

Even make changes , magenta or yellow color cast, to whatever profile you are.

In order to try to recover corrupt files, can you upload those .mov you record with the FZ?

Thanks again.

I would do if it didn't clearly identify the camera shop I did this in.

It was a bit of a cheeky thing to be doing so I'd rather not put it up. 

You are going to have to trust me on this one though that hacking the files together is not likely to bring any joy. Even if they could be persuaded to play more than just black (which in itself was a bit of effort that you don't really want to be going to anyway) then just the file sizes alone will tell you that what its recording is probably not 200mbps.