Would You Perhaps Be Interested In A Different GX80/85 Colour Profile???

[canonlyme]

On 10/21/2022 at 11:41 AM, PannySVHS said:

4K on the GX85 slamdunks any HD AVCHD flavour on it, especially the brittle HD 60p. Also, the 24 to 30p HD on the GX85 is by far not as nice as on the G6 and G7, which both have a very smooth but high resolving HD. GX85 HD is brittle by comparison. What article btw?:)

 

I really recommend you try out the AVCHD in the gx80 to compare it to the fhd in the g7 🙂 I know it's not that relevant anymore because few people shoot the g7/g85/gx80 but I think the AVCHD is being slept on compared to the regular mp4 (sorry for calling it h264, both seem to be h264 in the end). 

[canonlyme]

3 minutes ago, canonlyme said:

I really recommend you try out the AVCHD in the gx80 to compare it to the fhd in the g7 🙂 I know it's not that relevant anymore because few people shoot the g7/g85/gx80 but I think the AVCHD is being slept on compared to the regular mp4 (sorry for calling it h264, both seem to be h264 in the end). 

Never mind just saw that you actually liked the article. Also for saying you were wrong, you were not, I just misunderstood your post 🙂

[kye]

26 minutes ago, canonlyme said:

I know it's not that relevant anymore because few people shoot the g7/g85/gx80 but I think the AVCHD is being slept on compared to the regular mp4 (sorry for calling it h264, both seem to be h264 in the end). 

I'm still using my GX85 as my pocket cam for small outings and it will be my backup camera for bigger trips with my GH5.

While not being the best image quality outright, it's a pocketable fully-manual camera (with focus and exposure assist tools!) MILC with 4K 100Mbps codec, IBIS, and a tilt-screen plus an EVF, it's still one hell of a package.

[PannySVHS]

I love the HD from the G6 and even moreso from the G7, GX85 not so much. Good thing is, I could reactivate my G7 for some HD goodness. G6 has quit working, good old trusty plastic fantastic. 🙂

[John Matthews]

On 11/2/2022 at 1:34 PM, PannySVHS said:

I love the HD from the G6 and even moreso from the G7, GX85 not so much. Good thing is, I could reactivate my G7 for some HD goodness. G6 has quit working, good old trusty plastic fantastic. 🙂

I'm finding the GM1 in AVCHD 24p to perform better than the GX850 (very similar to the GX85) in terms of 1080p in MP4 or AVCHD. Of course my E-M1 ii down-sampled C4K blows them all away- no moiré, no aliasing as far as I can tell. I think it's worth the extra effort. If I add just the slightest bit of sharpening to the down-sampled h.265 image, it's practically indistinguishable side-by-side on my 4.5k iMac monitor, yet the files will be WAY smaller.

[kye]

@PannySVHS @John Matthews @canonlyme 

I've been meaning to do a codec test on my GX85, so might use this thread to motivate me to do it.

Any suggestions for how / what to shoot?  I'm thinking a prime lens stopped down so it's nice and sharp, potentially with a moving subject (assuming I can find a time when there's a bit of wind to make the trees nearby move a bit).

[John Matthews]

On 11/4/2022 at 5:21 AM, kye said:

@PannySVHS @John Matthews @canonlyme 

I've been meaning to do a codec test on my GX85, so might use this thread to motivate me to do it.

Any suggestions for how / what to shoot?  I'm thinking a prime lens stopped down so it's nice and sharp, potentially with a moving subject (assuming I can find a time when there's a bit of wind to make the trees nearby move a bit).

Trees are a good idea, but they might not make any codec fail. I'd say high dynamic range with lots (> half the frame) of moving water... you'll probably see some results with that; however, you won't be able to show us too much due to online compression for sharing. We'll just have to take your word for it.

[kye]

38 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

Trees are a good idea, but they might not make any codec fail. I'd say high dynamic range with lots (> half the frame) of moving water... you'll probably see some results with that; however, you won't be able to show us too much due to online compression for sharing. We'll just have to take your word for it.

Good idea, I'm near the beach so that's definitely possible.

I've found that if you zoom in to 200-400% in post then it's easy to see through the YT compression to what is the original compression, especially if I get lots of movement in the shot.

Also, most content is delivered via some form of streaming (but not all) so if it's not visible on 4K YT then that's a useful conclusion in itself.

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

On 6/5/2017 at 9:56 AM, BTM_Pix said:

OK, a bit of an update....

As I'm still in the UK, I was able to go and visit the camera shop where I've bought a bit of kit over the past few years.

Because they know what my day job is they were virtually rushing to get a Sony A9 out of the cabinet as soon as I walked in so were a bit dismayed that all I wanted was to have 10 minutes with an FZ2000!

Anyway, here is the news.

I did a couple of test recordings of the 200mbps HD format so I could have a look at the files and compare them with what is coming out of a G7 when its making the corrupt files. 

I then captured a remote session to look into these MP4(LPCM) modes to see how they were selected from the app.

And then something caught my eye in Cinelike settings which I'll come back to in a bit.

So I ended up walking out with an example high bitrate file and a surreptitious capture of a remote session to look at the commands when selecting it.

And the camera shop ended up with no sale or even a whiff of an interest in the A9. Though they know I'll be back for something at some point!

Now I had the correct command I could be sure that we are sending the right one to the G7 (in this case) but we are still in exactly the same boat regarding the corrupted file. Copying the chunk of the real FZ2000 to it will persuade it QuickTime to play a black file of the correct length and VLC is identifying the codec (so I think I've got the right sector) but won't play it. 

The command is definitely in the "make me a cheeseburger" category as selecting the 200mbps format file will automatically change the camera into the MP4(LPCM) mode so there is no command from within the app to do this as it just happens as a package at the camera end. As the other cameras don't have that option then we are definitely in the territory of just prodding it with a stick to see if there is a fluke combination of formats to switch between that will make it do this combination internally.

The bottom line with that is that I'm going to have to throw it back out there for everyone else to pick up their own sticks and prod their cameras for this one as I need to be getting on with the other thing. And being a bit selfish about this, its a bit of a diminishing return for me effort wise as I'd sooner plug it into a second hand ninja star to get edit ready prores if I was looking to up the HD quality for me. Or actually even chop in my FZ1000 against an FZ2000 if they come down in price a bit as it is a seductive camera with features like that, the NDs and the VLOG option.

///EDIT 

The FZ2000 files are NOT playable in the G7 so I think this might be a big clue as to this hunt ultimately not bearing any fruit

//////

OK, sad part over, what about what caught my eye?

Well, the FZ2000 has an additional control in Cinelike D for shifting the colour tone of the whole image. 

It has a plus and minus control which shifts to violet/magenta and yellow/green respectively. And this is independent of the white balance.

Now, I think that is a very interesting little function that people could be able to manipulate to create some profiles that are more akin to other manufacturers favoured tones?

And when I say that the FZ2000 has got that Hue function, what I of course mean is that now we've all got it

Big caveat here is that I have only tried this on the G7 as thats all that I've got to hand at the moment but it should work on the others too but please test it and let everyone know if it does or not for your camera.

Updated html file attached to enable it and I've used values that will get it going for you but please make your own experiments by just editing the last number in the command to shift it in the direction you want. I have no idea what the range is so I've set it at 5 either way so you can see the effect but tweak away until you find the end points! 

Enjoy and please report back if it works for your camera so everyone can share the results.

 

DEPLOY CINELIKE D AND V WITH HUE.html 1.67 kB · 339 downloads

Unearthing an old topic, because I have a very cheap (US$ 280,00, with a defective HDMI port - looks like only a broken soldering - and a little lens dust) FZ1000 on the way.

Music festival / venues are becoming more strict here and started to ban all ILC cameras, hence I needed a fixed lens one.

@BTM_Pix, do you remember how your FZ1000 worked with your html commands?

[FHDcrew]

53 minutes ago, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

Unearthing an old topic, because I have a very cheap (US$ 280,00, with a defective HDMI port - looks like only a broken soldering - and a little lens dust) FZ1000 on the way.

Music festival / venues are becoming more strict here and started to ban all ILC cameras, hence I needed a fixed lens one.

@BTM_Pix, do you remember how your FZ1000 worked with your html commands?

The FZ1000 is cheaply made but otherwise a solid poor-man's HQ camcorder setup.  My church uses two plus a Panasonic G7 and a PTZ camera for a live-stream setup.  Gives us great zoom flexibility with a 1 inch sensor, very nice shallow DOF on the long end if you are in the 300-400mm equiv. range.  HDMI out does work, yes it's fragile (we've broken the ports before and needed to get them fixed) and it shuts off when recording (so I've heard, we never record internally) but otherwise the HDMI output fully works, cameras don't shut off and you can output 720p, 1080p, 4k or oversampled 1080p with decent control over framerate.  Except for FHD you only get 24p or 60p output, for 30p the camera still outputs 60p.  But in OBS you can just drop every other frame and get right back to 60p.  720p has the lowest latency so for live broadcast usage it actually can be a useful mode.

[BTM_Pix]

1 hour ago, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

@BTM_Pix, do you remember how your FZ1000 worked with your html commands?

Yes, its universal for all Panasonic cameras.

FZ1000 already has Cinelike D though so its of less use.

Funnily enough, the HDMI port on my FZ1000 is also fucked. 

[FHDcrew]

6 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Yes, its universal for all Panasonic cameras.

FZ1000 already has Cinelike D though so its of less use.

Funnily enough, the HDMI port on my FZ1000 is also fucked. 

That Micro HDMI life

[kye]

18 hours ago, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

Music festival / venues are becoming more strict here and started to ban all ILC cameras, hence I needed a fixed lens one.

How do they assess if it's a MILC or fixed lens?  I wonder if a small enough camera with a "fixed" looking lens would work?

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

20 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Yes, its universal for all Panasonic cameras.

FZ1000 already has Cinelike D though so its of less use.

Funnily enough, the HDMI port on my FZ1000 is also fucked. 

iFixit have a VERY good disassembly guide, probably will take a look.

Same for the lens dust - if it is in the front elements, is very easy to solve; the seller told me that the dust is not visible, hence it could be in the sensor. But in the same guide they show how to get to the sensor, and it is much more easier than most current cameras.

[BTM_Pix]

5 minutes ago, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

iFixit have a VERY good disassembly guide, probably will take a look.

I'll be sure to post my cack handed results on iBrokeit shortly then.

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

2 hours ago, kye said:

How do they assess if it's a MILC or fixed lens?  I wonder if a small enough camera with a "fixed" looking lens would work?

Kind of a lottery.

Went to a festival some days ago, they stated clearly "no professional or ILD cameras allowed", which blurries the boundaries even more, hehehe. Did not wanted to risk it, brought an old Sony HX9, some usable stills shots.

In the entrance, saw a hipster trying to bring in a Leica M with a 50mm Summicron - not the best combo for a 20000+ people festival, I must say. 😄 The security just asked "it changes lenses" and the idiot said "yes". The guard was in a good mood and just said "ok...go in".

In general, they just hate "DSLR style" cameras (hence my preference for "rangefinder" bodies - not for nostalgia, is just everybody thinks it is a film camera). With my m4/3 bodies, the only concert that my cameras were banned was when I brought a GH2 with kit lens (because it looks "DSLR") some years ago...all the GXs, even with tele lens, no problem at all.

Probably my X-S10 with the 55-200 would be green lit, but since would be a time consuming trip to my home, did not wanted to risk. But the FZ1000 is getting on just in case, for big festivals could be indeed a good choice - usually the stage is well it and the smaller sensor would be less of an issue.

[kye]

On 11/9/2022 at 11:47 PM, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

Kind of a lottery.

Went to a festival some days ago, they stated clearly "no professional or ILD cameras allowed", which blurries the boundaries even more, hehehe. Did not wanted to risk it, brought an old Sony HX9, some usable stills shots.

In the entrance, saw a hipster trying to bring in a Leica M with a 50mm Summicron - not the best combo for a 20000+ people festival, I must say. 😄 The security just asked "it changes lenses" and the idiot said "yes". The guard was in a good mood and just said "ok...go in".

In general, they just hate "DSLR style" cameras (hence my preference for "rangefinder" bodies - not for nostalgia, is just everybody thinks it is a film camera). With my m4/3 bodies, the only concert that my cameras were banned was when I brought a GH2 with kit lens (because it looks "DSLR") some years ago...all the GXs, even with tele lens, no problem at all.

Probably my X-S10 with the 55-200 would be green lit, but since would be a time consuming trip to my home, did not wanted to risk. But the FZ1000 is getting on just in case, for big festivals could be indeed a good choice - usually the stage is well it and the smaller sensor would be less of an issue.

Yeah, that's the kind of challenge I have with cameras..   the rules aren't clear, the security guards aren't experts, and you don't want to have to leave anything with them (or sometimes you simply can't leave anything with them).

One temple I went to in Bangkok had a sign...  8mm film cameras are OK, 16mm film cameras are not.  This was in 2018.  I wish I'd taken a photo of it.  I'm not sure how they'd have classified my GH5, so I tried to keep a low profile.

[John Matthews]

On 11/5/2022 at 7:40 AM, kye said:

Good idea, I'm near the beach so that's definitely possible.

I've found that if you zoom in to 200-400% in post then it's easy to see through the YT compression to what is the original compression, especially if I get lots of movement in the shot.

Also, most content is delivered via some form of streaming (but not all) so if it's not visible on 4K YT then that's a useful conclusion in itself.

I just did a test with fast moving water from a fountain in AVCHD(24fps) vs. MP4(25fps) on a GX800. The MP4 blew away the AVCHD in this unrealistic situation. I filmed a wide scene of the river and neither failed, but the fountain on a 14mm up close was WAY to much for the AVCHD. I wonder if my hacked (moon T7) would have handled it because that's also AVCHD but a way higher bitrate? Here's a screen shot of FCPX of the worst frame:

[John Matthews]

Terribly sorry. Too late to edit the previous post. I accidentally set mislabeled the image... the image on the right should be 59.98fps not 25fps. I might have to do the test again. Sorry.

[PannySVHS]

Oh wow, never seen an artfact mess like this before! 🙂 @John Matthews