Ready to buy my first S35, need advice.

[rokkimort]

I have sort of inherited a nice set of S35 glass and am ready to get a S35 camera (specifically 1.5 crop, I have a blackmagic cinema camera and it's 2.2 crop and it's NOT the same). I'm looking for something cheap, entry-level, maybe something older. We're starting a small business and have a couple of upcoming music videos, so that's mostly what we're gonna shoot (2 people crew).

Glass is PL, but as far as I understand you can adapt PL glass to micro 4/3 mounts or anything like that, but not canon EF because it's not wide enough to host some glass, so native PL mount or adaptable mounts is what I'm looking for.

In order to make it feel like an upgrade it has to be 4k. RAW would be nice, but ProRes would be also fine. I'm not familiar with other Log profiles, but if there's anything that grades like ProRes I'm fine with it.

25p would be enough, but if it can do 4k 60p that would be amazing. Dynamic range on blackmagic cinema is nice, I saw some footage from Ursa or blackmagic production, and the dynamic range is not as good on those cameras. I would hate to loose DR, so it has to be the same or better.

Now, I don't have any accessories apart from 7inch fullHD external monitor that has hdmi/sdi input, so I'm looking for something that would be cheap to rig to make it production ready. I saw some old Red for sale, but I hear battery/memory/accessories would cost almost as the camera itself.

I know it sounds stupid to ask for all these features, and then say "i need it as cheap as possible", but I need it to be as cheap as possible. It's going to be a self-funded purchase, probably will have to get a loan, so the cheaper – the better.

To sum up – 4k 25p, PL mount, high DR, good codec, cheap to rig, for two-people crew.

We have some old lights, beaten, but working. Don't need audio accessories as well.

So what's the cheapest cam that falls under this criteria? Does it even exist?

 

 

[AaronChicago]

Not sure what you consider cheap, but the Ursa Mini 4.6k checks all of those boxes and more. No need for extra accessories other than batteries. The 5" screen is amazing so no need for an ext monitor if you're shooting by yourself.

[HockeyFan12]

Yeah, the 4.6K is nice but the other black magic cameras have worse DR than the 2.5k, by quite a bit, as you've noticed. I believe the Epic MX has worse DR, too. 

If you want the same DR, then it's A7S (but I am not a fan of that camera at all) or Dragon or C300 Mk II or FS7? The 2.5k has incredible DR. I don't think you'll find anything much better for under $10k.

Is there a PL speed booster?

4.6k Ursa has got to be the cheapest thing. :/ Alexas are down to under $20k used now and the price/performance on that is unbeatable. But that's a big investment and a difficult camera to use with a crew of two. Not 4k, though, either.

[Juxx989]

The Huge URSA v1's with PL mount have tanked in value... Ive seen one as low as $1300 in local LA craigslist. Got a few offers for them in trade for my NX-1 Gear. Too big for me and I would want the ef mount at least.... Huge but cheap... with 4k Raw and 3 screens one the size of an ipad! I believe the BIG one has global shutter and you'll never have to worry about not looking "PRO" walking around with it!

This guy does a pretty in depth review... its the newest I could find from December 2016

 

[Ehetyz]

Actually having used both side by side, I'd go out and say UM4,6K has the edge on the BMCC when it comes to dynamic range. You might have to shoot RAW and denoise the lowest few stops to get the most of it though. I feel UM4,6K has even more of the milky, high DR alexa look than the BMCC - not to mention the obvious things like resolution, frame size and frame rate it has going for it. Also the tonality and color separation are leaps and bounds better than the BMCC, not to mention something like the Sony cameras which tonally can't hold their own even against the older Blackmagics.

Here are some of the stress tests I shot with the UM while urbexing with it. No controlled light, just direct sunlight and deep shadows. I'd say any of those would have issues on the BMCC with either the highlights or would exhibit heavy shadow grain. These were on Prores HQ so theoretically there might have been even more headroom if I had shot RAW.

 

[IronFilm]

Is your BMCC a MFT mount or EF mount? As if MFT you can add a focal reducer, if it is EF then you are out of luck!

I'd suggest you look closely at:

The new Panasonic Varicam when it gets announced in a few days time. 
Canon C200
BMD URSA Mini 4.6K Pro
Secondhand FS700 + Atomos Recorder of Convergent Design
Sony PMW-F3 (very nice, dirt cheap, but not 4K)
RED ONE
JVC LS300

[Geoff CB]

I would go with the 4.6K, best option to have the PL mount. You could also go the FS5/FS7 rout and get a PL adapter, but for filming with professional glass and an easy to edit codec, the Ursa really is your best bet.

[rokkimort]

UM 4.6k was my first bet, but the prices for used cameras are not as low as I expected, so unfortunately it's out of my budget.

The older big ursa was something that I was looking at as well, there was a discussion in one of facebook groups about it too, and people recommended not to bother with it, as it's too big. I'm afraid it might be to big to handle for crew of two. I imagine it's only possible to put it on a tripod and pan/tilt, I'm afraid to think how much it would cost to rig it to have any kind of stabilized movement. I think I saw a video where blackmagic rep was saying that the new 4.6k sensor was supposed to be available as upgrade for big ursa. Did they ditch that idea? I think I would trade ergonomics for that 4.6k sensor.

We are thinking to maybe rent for couple of gigs, or shoot on BMCC and save up for either Ursa Mini 4.6, FS700 with Odissey recorder, or Red One. Though Red One scares me to be honest, no idea if I'd be able to find a bundle that would be ready to shoot for same price as other two cams.

I actually like the idea of getting A7s and using PL adapters to shoot in crop mode, but all the videos I've seen from it have colors that don't appeal to me at all. Maybe it's the way people grade.

[IronFilm]

Nope, 4.6K sensor never came to the "big" URSA (much to the annoyance of their owners!!).

And the BMD 4K sensor is a big step back from any of their other sensors (heck, I'd rather use a Blackmagic Micro Cinema Camera than a BMPC4K!).

[Fritz Pierre]

The RED one is a heavy camera too, and though you can get a deal on a package, the tripod and any other support gear, will already blow past your cost for a UM4.6k...then if something fails on the RED, you're now quickly into into Varicam LT territory...buying the RED is like buying a Mercedes when you only have the maintenance budget for a Toyota...and in the end only 9 stops of DR, so you'd have to factor in cost of lights, as you mention you own some old beaten up ones. The 4.6 K suddenly starts looking like a bargain!