The Canon C200 is here and its a bomb!

[BenEricson]

On 4/5/2018 at 7:02 PM, IronFilm said:

I'm just surprised Canon didn't let the C200 have an HD 10bit codec option. 

I agree. This is what prevents me from buying a C200. The C300ii is much more suited for the work I do. Recording long interviews and mic'd up b roll for 30/40 minutes at a time. You can buy a recorder, but that takes away from what makes the C series so awesome.

Raw seems suitable for the hobbyists and the top pros, but not the in between. This depends on the scenario of course. 

[Kisaha]

On 14/4/2018 at 1:14 AM, BenEricson said:

 

Raw seems suitable for the hobbyists and the top pros, but not the in between. This depends on the scenario of course. 

100%! ..and then hobbyists can not afford a C200 ecosystem and top pros have access to bigger budgets and better cameras! No man's land, really.

These days I am working with a C100mkII, the previous job with a C300mkII, where is the C200 fits in this? It certainly is expensive as an entry 4K C series camera, and the 4K isn't a nessecity yet. Where is the C100mkIII?!

 

[jonpais]

I find the title of this topic rather amusing in that regard. 'It's a bomb' means it's a flop or a failure, while 'it's the bomb" means awesome, phenomenal. So I guess you can take your pick.  

[mercer]

24 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

100%! ..and then hobbyists can not afford a C200 ecosystem and top pros have access to bigger budgets and better cameras! No man's land, really.

These days I am working with a C100mkII, the previous job with a C300mkII, where is the C200 fits in this? It certainly is expensive as an entry 4K C series camera, and the 4K isn't a nessecity yet. Where is the C100mkIII?!

 

I can agree with your first point. I am the hobbyist market that would love to shoot with one but can not afford it. But I also think Canon is segmenting their line up so much, that there is a camera for everybody’s needs. The C200, in my opinion, is solely for micro budget narrative, documentary and music video work.

This is a camera to use when you have a small budget and a tight schedule... When you’ve scheduled for a 3:1 shot ratio and you’re trying to compete with short films or features that are shot on Alexas. Obviously, it’s not as good as an Alexa, but it will get you nearly halfway there.

11 minutes ago, jonpais said:

I find the title of this topic rather amusing in that regard. 'It's a bomb' means it's a flop or a failure, while 'it's the bomb" means awesome, phenomenal. So I guess you can take your pick.  

That was obviously a lost in translation title. We all knew what he meant.

On a side note... 

A few years ago I was driving through an urban area and there was a billboard with a McDonalds ad. The ad showed a huge Big Mac  and Ronald McDonald eyeballing it with crazy eyes.

The caption read... “I’d hit that.” Hahahahaha.

Obviously, nobody in the McDonald’s ad approval department realized that “I’d hit that” was a sexual slang phrase.

So instead of proclaiming how much Ronald wanted to eat that Big Mac, in actuality their advertisement proclaimed that Ronald McDonald wanted to have sex with the Big Mac.

[Snowfun]

5 minutes ago, jonpais said:

I find the title of this topic rather amusing in that regard. 'It's a bomb' means it's a flop or a failure, while 'it's the bomb" means awesome, phenomenal.

Yes - I couldn’t work out whether the “bomb” in this case was a positive or negative. And I thought it was just me...

The C200 was tempting. But I decided not to go down that route - primarily on cost. For me a good decision as the Pocket 2 will give me the 4K raw to play with (the hobbiest market alluded to by @BenEricson above) and I get some goodies and save some cash. But the AF really does look super.

[Kisaha]

1 minute ago, mercer said:

I can agree with your first point. I am the hobbyist market that would love to shoot with one but can not afford it. But I also think Canon is segmenting their line up so much, that there is a camera for everybody’s needs. The C200, in my opinion, is solely for micro budget narrative, documentary and music video work.

This is a camera to use when you have a small budget and a tight schedule... When you’ve scheduled for a 3:1 shot ratio and you’re trying to compete with short films or features that are shot on Alexas. Obviously, it’s not as good as an Alexa, but it will get you nearly halfway there.

In my country, the specific market is covered by Ursa's, and I am hearing that there are a few EVA's bought by the 2 main rental houses (the market is so small, that we only have 3-4 rentals!), and a lot of people are covered by the GH5 anyway. It is a tough sell. Those rental houses usually rent the C300mkII with similar money.

I know only one C200 working well here, and it goes as a combo with the DP that owns it.

It is very expensive here, 9-10.000€ includong VAT, while the UMP and EVA are 2-2500€ less. That's a lot of money.

In my case raw is such a distant need that only if I could get it for really cheap (aka Pocket 4K!) I would care. To do a small project or short is much cheaper and easier to rent a camera. The C200/300 goes to something like 200€ for 3 days (including 2-3 batteries and some media) and they usually throw in a lens or a tripod, or something as a present.

The C100mkII for the current job is 115€ for 4 days (in reality for 5 because Sunday doesn't count) plus a tripod, 3 batteries, 2 SD cards, a 35mm. If you do small projects its better to rent I guess.

 

[mercer]

1 minute ago, Kisaha said:

In my country, the specific market is covered by Ursa's, and I am hearing that there are a few EVA's bought by the 2 main rental houses (the market is so small, that we only have 3-4 rentals!), and a lot of people are covered by the GH5 anyway. It is a tough sell. Those rental houses usually rent the C300mkII with similar money.

I know only one C200 working well here, and it goes as a combo with the DP that owns it.

It is very expensive here, 9-10.000€ includong VAT, while the UMP and EVA are 2-2500€ less. That's a lot of money.

In my case raw is such a distant need that only if I could get it for really cheap (aka Pocket 4K!) I would care. To do a small project or short is much cheaper and easier to rent a camera. The C200/300 goes to something like 200€ for 3 days (including 2-3 batteries and some media) and they usually throw in a lens or a tripod, or something as a present.

The C100mkII for the current job is 115€ for 4 days (in reality for 5 because Sunday doesn't count) plus a tripod, 3 batteries, 2 SD cards, a 35mm. If you do small projects its better to rent I guess.

 

That makes sense. I have my 5D3 for now and the stuff I am working on doesn’t require more than 1080p Raw. I’ll comfortably use this camera for the next 1-2 years. But next summer I may put together a short film with a little more meat to it and a C200 rental could be a logical choice for that project. Right now I do run and gun guerilla filmmaking, the C200 wouldn’t even be an option for me, but that project will be very controlled with a short schedule, so it could work. I’ve said in the past about the C200... you don’t buy a Ford Fiesta if you drive on the AutoBahn every day.

So if your work requires a lot of footage, it’s probably not the right camera... even though there are reports that the 8bit 4K Footage has more latitude than the GH5 10bit 400mb footage... I think it was in Max Yuryev’s review. 

[Kisaha]

36 minutes ago, mercer said:

That makes sense. I have my 5D3 for now and the stuff I am working on doesn’t require more than 1080p Raw. I’ll comfortably use this camera for the next 1-2 years. But next summer I may put together a short film with a little more meat to it and a C200 rental could be a logical choice for that project. Right now I do run and gun guerilla filmmaking, the C200 wouldn’t even be an option for me, but that project will be very controlled with a short schedule, so it could work. I’ve said in the past about the C200... you don’t buy a Ford Fiesta if you drive on the AutoBahn every day.

So if your work requires a lot of footage, it’s probably not the right camera... even though there are reports that the 8bit 4K Footage has more latitude than the GH5 10bit 400mb footage... I think it was in Max Yuryev’s review. 

Some Canon sauce, always makes our things yummy-ier!

C100mkII, I call the best worst codec ever, 35mbps ONLY.

It would be great to rent the C200, I am sure you will love it.

I was looking forward for the project I am doing now, because the producer wanted a C200, but finally they couldn't excuse the big difference in rental, and most stuff plays on youtube or in HD screens anyway.

Max is a weddimg filmaker. Good guy, but I am not even sure if he has ever done, even a corporate. The guy I am doing camera for right now, is a DP since 1989 (10 years before I started my career), I bet he knows a bit or two more, than a lot of internet personas!

[zerocool22]

2 hours ago, Kisaha said:

100%! ..and then hobbyists can not afford a C200 ecosystem and top pros have access to bigger budgets and better cameras! No man's land, really.

These days I am working with a C100mkII, the previous job with a C300mkII, where is the C200 fits in this? It certainly is expensive as an entry 4K C series camera, and the 4K isn't a nessecity yet. Where is the C100mkIII?!

 

Well I am a hobbyist and I got a ursa mini pro. So that argument does not apply to me. But I guess for most others it is prob true. I do kinda cringe at times when I meet DOP's that say they dont need anything more expensive then their A6300 because nobody can see the difference. And I look at their work, and I sure can see the difference, and the reason they make a living out of it is because out of networking and not skill. So even when they would upgrade to better camera's the work would render still the same. 

[Damphousse]

6 hours ago, jonpais said:

I find the title of this topic rather amusing in that regard. 'It's a bomb' means it's a flop or a failure, while 'it's the bomb" means awesome, phenomenal. So I guess you can take your pick.  

Just glad a nonnative English speaker pointed that out.  I didn't want to touch it.  At least he is trying to speak my language.  The OP is Swedish so the slang mangling is to be expected.  Nice effort though.

6 hours ago, mercer said:

On a side note... 

A few years ago I was driving through an urban area and there was a billboard with a McDonalds ad. The ad showed a huge Big Mac  and Ronald McDonald eyeballing it with crazy eyes.

The caption read... “I’d hit that.” Hahahahaha.

Obviously, nobody in the McDonald’s ad approval department realized that “I’d hit that” was a sexual slang phrase.

Wow.  If they are that clueless it must be a joy to work there as a brown person... or if you are under 50 years old!

On a side note... the former CEO was black.  I assume no one ran their urban outreach program past him...  or anyone under 50.

[Kisaha]

4 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

Well I am a hobbyist and I got a ursa mini pro. So that argument does not apply to me. But I guess for most others it is prob true. I do kinda cringe at times when I meet DOP's that say they dont need anything more expensive then their A6300 because nobody can see the difference. And I look at their work, and I sure can see the difference, and the reason they make a living out of it is because out of networking and not skill. So even when they would upgrade to better camera's the work would render still the same. 

Seriously, you must be the one and only. I did a moderate estimation of everything I needed to be productive with the Ursa Mini Pro, and I reached 9000 euros. As a hobbyist maybe you can get away with 7500-8000 euros, but still this is quite a substantial amount of money. What do you do with this camera then? I assume that an a6300 is sufficient for most hobbyists, but...

...there are no DOP's with an a6300 as their main camera (or second), and no serious DoP would say something stupid like this, except if you mean 20 years old film school students that declare "DoP", "director", "screen writer" after starting the second semester of film school - I have met tons of those, most of them never made it in the industry.

[Gregormannschaft]

On 13/04/2018 at 9:28 PM, Danilo Del Tufo said:

EOS C200: Third Test - Available Light - codec Rawlight - lens canon 50mm 1.4 - ISO 800 - ND 6.

 

Nice. Maybe add a little more sharpening?

[zerocool22]

18 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Seriously, you must be the one and only. I did a moderate estimation of everything I needed to be productive with the Ursa Mini Pro, and I reached 9000 euros. As a hobbyist maybe you can get away with 7500-8000 euros, but still this is quite a substantial amount of money. What do you do with this camera then? I assume that an a6300 is sufficient for most hobbyists, but...

...there are no DOP's with an a6300 as their main camera (or second), and no serious DoP would say something stupid like this, except if you mean 20 years old film school students that declare "DoP", "director", "screen writer" after starting the second semester of film school - I have met tons of those, most of them never made it in the industry.

I am pretty sure I am not, there are hobbyists out there with RED camera's. So I am no special snowflake. Is it a substantial amount of money. Yes, but I didnt go to film school, I am 32 years old, I worked for 10 years hating my job. So why I drop this kind of money? I see it as a investment in myself. I did not go to film school, If I did I would have lost more then 10K on education, If I lost my job this could be a backup plan. People invest much more money in sports cars, horses, motorcycles, addictions,... So investing 10K in something I love is not that bad of a deal. 

haha yeah maybe the name dop is dropped too easy, everybody who shot a shortfilm calls themselves a dop, and nowadays anybody who operates a camera. And yeah most of them are in their 20's, and I should note they do not do narrative work. They grind small business for corporate video. As I know zero DOP's that do professional narrative work fulltime. If I knew one, I would be on set all the time perfecting this craft and getting tips from directors, gaffers and everybody else on the crew.

[Danilo Del Tufo]

6 hours ago, Gregormannschaft said:

Nice. Maybe add a little more sharpening?

Sorry for that, this was my third test with Rawlight, colors look more nice than my previous tests. I've used Magic Bullet looks and it added some sharpening, but I believe it still looks natural. Believe me, without this MB preset it looked more ugly, it was necessary I think. Did you see my first and second tests too, they are overexposed than this one.

[mercer]

19 minutes ago, Danilo Del Tufo said:

Sorry for that, this was my third test with Rawlight, colors look more nice than my previous tests. I've used Magic Bullet looks and it added some sharpening, but I believe it still looks natural. Believe me, without this MB preset it looked more ugly, it was necessary I think. Did you see my first and second tests too, they are overexposed than this one.

Keep at it Danilo, maybe write a one minute short film to propel your tests. When I got my 5D3 and started shooting ML Raw on it, I jumped into a short and I was forced to not only learn the ins and outs of the camera but also to think more about composition and light. In the end, I think it really helped. Good luck and please keep posting your progress... there aren’t many C200 owners on this site.

[Mark Romero 2]

On 4/15/2018 at 9:14 AM, mercer said:

So instead of proclaiming how much Ronald wanted to eat that Big Mac, in actuality their advertisement proclaimed that Ronald McDonald wanted to have sex with the Big Mac.

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

[Danilo Del Tufo]

13 hours ago, mercer said:

Keep at it Danilo, maybe write a one minute short film to propel your tests. When I got my 5D3 and started shooting ML Raw on it, I jumped into a short and I was forced to not only learn the ins and outs of the camera but also to think more about composition and light. In the end, I think it really helped. Good luck and please keep posting your progress... there aren’t many C200 owners on this site.

Thanks for support and suggestions. I need to wait some months to buy other necessary things to make a more properly shoot. As I've stated before, I'm coming from an HPX170, an old Panasonic camera, that was more easy to use. Actually I'm finishing the drawings necessary for a storyboard for a short movie that I've wrote, the project is still a long term in time needed to accomplish, I think for September I will have all the things needed. Thanks again!

[Gregormannschaft]

17 hours ago, Danilo Del Tufo said:

Sorry for that, this was my third test with Rawlight, colors look more nice than my previous tests. I've used Magic Bullet looks and it added some sharpening, but I believe it still looks natural. Believe me, without this MB preset it looked more ugly, it was necessary I think. Did you see my first and second tests too, they are overexposed than this one.

I personally think the sharpening went a little too far. But as mercer said, keep experimenting and sharing your results. Personally I'm a fan of footage that's creamy and soft and a little bit dreamy. Colours look very nice, though. I'd love to grab a C200 but it would be the extra costs associated (new editing rig, storage media, gimbal) that would make it all a little too expensive.

[Danilo Del Tufo]

New LUT by a friend of mine. Better skin tones from my previous attempt - Canon C200 - codec Rawlight - lens canon 50mm 1.4 - ISO 800 - ND 6

Picture from my previous attempt:

My previous attempt : 

 

[IronFilm]

On 4/17/2018 at 6:27 AM, zerocool22 said:

I am pretty sure I am not, there are hobbyists out there with RED camera's. So I am no special snowflake. Is it a substantial amount of money. Yes, but I didnt go to film school, I am 32 years old, I worked for 10 years hating my job. So why I drop this kind of money? I see it as a investment in myself. I did not go to film school, If I did I would have lost more then 10K on education, If I lost my job this could be a backup plan. People invest much more money in sports cars, horses, motorcycles, addictions,... So investing 10K in something I love is not that bad of a deal. 

haha yeah maybe the name dop is dropped too easy, everybody who shot a shortfilm calls themselves a dop, and nowadays anybody who operates a camera. And yeah most of them are in their 20's, and I should note they do not do narrative work. They grind small business for corporate video. As I know zero DOP's that do professional narrative work fulltime. If I knew one, I would be on set all the time perfecting this craft and getting tips from directors, gaffers and everybody else on the crew.

"Investment"?!

If you don't already have paid work lined up then you're certain to find that C200 will be a very poor investment indeed.