The Canon C200 is here and its a bomb!

[DBounce]

1 minute ago, hijodeibn said:

Most probably they didn´t know how to record audio, that´s always the main issue with people who think the audio is recorded just pressing the start button, the pre-amp in the C100 are fantastic, I can always get a clear audio from ProTools, I am assuming the audio recording in the C200 is similar or better, I hope so, if you find out the pre-amps are crap, please lets us know in advance…..that will be really disappointing….

I own the C200, and some pretty nice external recorders... the pre-amp in the C200 is up to the task. There are situations where external audio is preferably, (example: you need more inputs). But other than that, provided you have a clue what you are doing, the C200 will yield good results. 

[mercer]

@DBounce do you have an external recorder that accepts SDI input? It is my understanding that the C200 downscales and exports a 10bit DCI 2K feed of the Raw video through SDI, I’d be curious to know how well that works. I believe it will also internally record Raw at the same time. It could be a great way to get some beautiful ProRes footage with less data rates.  

[jbCinC_12]

@mercer, @DBounce and others... Those Canon Cinema cameras are quite interesting (with the C100 being in low price) - be it 4K or 1080p.  I'm torn between both - P4K or Canon Cxxx... What's an enthusiast gotta do, lol? ?   

[mercer]

8 minutes ago, jbCinC_12 said:

@mercer, @DBounce and others... Those Canon Cinema cameras are quite interesting (with the C100 being in low price) - be it 4K or 1080p.  I'm torn between both - P4K or Canon Cxxx... What's an enthusiast gotta do, lol? ?   

Get a 5D Mark iii and shoot ML Raw. You won’t look back. 

[DBounce]

3 hours ago, mercer said:

@DBounce do you have an external recorder that accepts SDI input? It is my understanding that the C200 downscales and exports a 10bit DCI 2K feed of the Raw video through SDI, I’d be curious to know how well that works. I believe it will also internally record Raw at the same time. It could be a great way to get some beautiful ProRes footage with less data rates.  

Nah, I tried external video recorders for awhile, but hated carrying around the extra hardware. That was one of the reasons I purchased the C200... internal raw. 

And yes, I know that some are recording external to 2k raw, and I understand it looks pretty good, it’s just not a path I’ve embraced.

Re-reading my last post, perhaps it was ambiguous... I meant audio records.

3 hours ago, jbCinC_12 said:

@mercer, @DBounce and others... Those Canon Cinema cameras are quite interesting (with the C100 being in low price) - be it 4K or 1080p.  I'm torn between both - P4K or Canon Cxxx... What's an enthusiast gotta do, lol? ?   

The P4k is potentially an interesting camera, but I would not consider it a substitute for a dedicated cinema camera like the Canon C-series. But that’s not to say it does not have it’s use. 

Really, until we see footage it hard to gauge how serious to take it. There’s even a review on BH claiming it’s output falls short of the GH5S. Though I’m not sure how much weight we can give that review. I remain to be convinced on the P4K, only real footage will suffice to cement my opinion.

[jonpais]

59 minutes ago, DBounce said:

There’s even a review on BH claiming it’s output falls short of the GH5S. Though I’m not sure how much weight we can give that review. I remain to be convinced on the P4K, only real footage will suffice to cement my opinion.

First of all, the reviewer was only able to judge image quality on the back of the batcam. Secondly, he was handling a pre-production camera. We have no idea who this guy is - he might be a sideshow circus clown for all we know. Finally, it’s not clear to me from his impressions whether he prefers the GH5s solely for its image quality or factors like ergonomics, feature set, etc.

See for yourselves:

Doesnt Compare to GH5s

Had the opportunity to take some Video footage with this beast Camera at a Trade show. I was able to do a few recording sessions as well in doors and outdoor but only for a few mins. I recorded through all the settings that the Camera had to offer. the footage is great, but prefer the Panasonic GH5s to be honest. Great Camera though, maybe once it is released it will be better. Thanks Blackmagic for the opportunity.

To sort of paraphrase, I might say, ‘the AF on the Sony a9 is great, but I prefer the GH5s tbh’. That does not necessarily mean I think the autofocus on the GH5s is better than the a9 - it merely means I like the GH5s more. 

Anyhow, whether that’s what he meant or not, his ‘review’ carries absolutely no weight whatsoever with me, and shouldn’t with anyone else either for that matter.

Not to mention that this is the first time I’ve seen someone handle the P4K at a trade show who had a negative impression of the image quality - if that’s indeed what he’s referring to.

[Z_Cunningham]

Hi Guys,

Here are some screens from a short I recently wrote/directed. Originally planned to use the Varicam LT but availability was scarce at the time of our shooting days. All in all using the C200 was pretty cool to use. Our colorist said that there was some slight noise issues in the shadows but the color cleaned up well. I can post ungraded raw tiffs in here if anyone wants to see any.

peace

[jonpais]

note: I shouldn’t have said negative impression; perhaps unfavorable when cf. to the GH5s. 

[IronFilm]

14 hours ago, hijodeibn said:

Most probably they didn´t know how to record audio, that´s always the main issue with people who think the audio is recorded just pressing the start button, the pre-amp in the C100 are fantastic, I can always get a clear audio from ProTools, I am assuming the audio recording in the C200 is similar or better, I hope so, if you find out the pre-amps are crap, please lets us know in advance…..that will be really disappointing….

I feel you're 150% missing the point, as it wouldn't even matter if the C100 had pre amps "twice as good" as my sound recorder, as it simply is an impractical workflow to not use an audio recorder/mixer and instead record straight to camera for scripted narrative filmmaking of a certain level of complexity. To do so would undoubtedly lead to worse audio. 

[hijodeibn]

8 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I feel you're 150% missing the point, as it wouldn't even matter if the C100 had pre amps "twice as good" as my sound recorder, as it simply is an impractical workflow to not use an audio recorder/mixer and instead record straight to camera for scripted narrative filmmaking of a certain level of complexity. To do so would undoubtedly lead to worse audio. 

Of course for a higher level of productions is always better to choose external recording, but I though we were talking about projects in a budget....if I have the money I will do narrative only with an Alexa and the best sound recorded of the market, since I don`t have the money I can only afford a team of two or three people, and the pre-amp of the C100 are incredible good for the cost....

[jbCinC_12]

15 hours ago, Z_Cunningham said:

Hi Guys,

Here are some screens from a short I recently wrote/directed. Originally planned to use the Varicam LT but availability was scarce at the time of our shooting days. All in all using the C200 was pretty cool to use. Our colorist said that there was some slight noise issues in the shadows but the color cleaned up well. I can post ungraded raw tiffs in here if anyone wants to see any.

peace

Hello,

Yes, I would like to see your ungraded tiffs.  They're all excellent

[ntblowz]

1 hour ago, hijodeibn said:

Of course for a higher level of productions is always better to choose external recording, but I though we were talking about projects in a budget....if I have the money I will do narrative only with an Alexa and the best sound recorded of the market, since I don`t have the money I can only afford a team of two or three people, and the pre-amp of the C100 are incredible good for the cost....

There is always a middle budget too, we sometimes shot with team of 4-5, not big enough for Alexa but more budget than low budget lol. We always have external sound with it, pre amp from external recorder is so much better and cleaner than build in camera like canon C lines

[hijodeibn]

1 hour ago, ntblowz said:

There is always a middle budget too, we sometimes shot with team of 4-5, not big enough for Alexa but more budget than low budget lol. We always have external sound with it, pre amp from external recorder is so much better and cleaner than build in camera like canon C lines

To be honest, in my experience for middle budget I will use both, I had a team of 6 with two guys doing sound to an external recorded with 5 labs and one shotgun (all sennheiser) and they screwed up in some shoots, today I will never take that risk again, I will also add a shotgun to the C100 as a backup, even if I do it with the R1, of course in this scenario I will add an external JuicedLink pre-amp to improve recording fidelity….

[Z_Cunningham]

19 hours ago, jbCinC_12 said:

Hello,

Yes, I would like to see your ungraded tiffs.  They're all excellent

Thanks! Here are some of the ungraded tiffs. 

REEL_A006.00_01_21_22.Still002.tif

REEL_A011.00_18_57_03.Still014.tif

REEL_A014.00_00_41_23.Still002.tif

[HockeyFan12]

48 minutes ago, Z_Cunningham said:

Thanks! Here are some of the ungraded tiffs. 

REEL_A006.00_01_21_22.Still002.tif

REEL_A011.00_18_57_03.Still014.tif

REEL_A014.00_00_41_23.Still002.tif

Nice work.

Were you also the DP? I noticed these are very noisy, but that's not a surprise with a Canon. 

They seem to be exposed traditionally, as film would usually be exposed, rather than exposed to the right as digital often is. The most experienced shooters on this forum usually prefer ETTR with digital (and it's proven to work well with the Red Dragon, which is also very noisy), but I'm stuck in my old ways.

I was curious how you or your DP exposed these. What ISO in camera, what ISO he rated the camera at. 800/800? Exposed through the camera's meter? Or with an incident meter (generally how I still work)? They look good, but are also exposed differently from most C200 clips I've seen, which usually look overexposed, so I wanted to ask. Thanks.

Just waiting on a price drop and I think I'm going to buy one of these cameras. 

[Z_Cunningham]

1 hour ago, HockeyFan12 said:

Nice work.

Were you also the DP? I noticed these are very noisy, but that's not a surprise with a Canon. 

They seem to be exposed traditionally, as film would usually be exposed, rather than exposed to the right as digital often is. The most experienced shooters on this forum usually prefer ETTR with digital (and it's proven to work well with the Red Dragon, which is also very noisy), but I'm stuck in my old ways.

I was curious how you or your DP exposed these. What ISO in camera, what ISO he rated the camera at. 800/800? Exposed through the camera's meter? Or with an incident meter (generally how I still work)? They look good, but are also exposed differently from most C200 clips I've seen, which usually look overexposed, so I wanted to ask. Thanks.

Just waiting on a price drop and I think I'm going to buy one of these cameras. 

Thanks, 

No, I wasn't the DP. My homie Jeremy Brockman was the DP (Instagram @brockfeb). We shot entirely at 800 but either exposed right on the nose or underexposed about quarter to a half stop give or take. He definitely intended to do that. After production he did say that when he looked back at the raw stills (since raw has no noise reduction) that he probably would've tweaked that in some shots. 

Also, our colorist said that he made the right choice because the highlights can clips pretty harshly on this camera even when shooting raw. I asked him how many stops of dynamic range he thought the camera had, and he said probably around 12. 

[webrunner5]

11 minutes ago, Z_Cunningham said:

 

 I asked him how many stops of dynamic range he thought the camera had, and he said probably around 12. 

If you don't ETTR I am sure that would be the result. No surprise there. Probably gain 1 stop, 1 1/2 stops pushing it +1 to the right. Suppose to be a 15 stop camera, but in reality, like most all cameras are, they are 1 to 2 stops lower in real life use.

[Z_Cunningham]

1 minute ago, webrunner5 said:

If you don't ETTR I am sure that would be the result. No surprise there. Probably gain 1 stop, 1 1/2 stops pushing it +1 to the right.

Yea that's what I saw in a lot of test videos before we got the camera. However, when we were doing our camera tests before, ETTR did something weird to the skin tones of our actors that our DP didn't like. One of our main actors has really dark rich skin and we definitely wanted to preserve the fidelity of that. But you live and you learn. All in all I think the images came out solid. 

[webrunner5]

Oh I like the output a lot. But it would have helped with the noise some also. But it takes a long time to learn a new camera, and even then if you change to some other completely different shooting agenda then it is new territory all over. No easy way to do anything shooting, unless it is the same O same O thing every time.

[Z_Cunningham]

10 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Oh I like the output a lot. But it would have helped with the noise some also. But it takes a long time to learn a new camera, and even then if you change to some other completely different shooting agenda then it is new territory all over. No easy way to do anything shooting, unless it is the same O same O thing every time.

For sure, brother.