The Canon C200 is here and its a bomb!

[ade towell]

that af does look good. Canon please put 4k 10 bit in the XF-AVC firmware update

[Gregormannschaft]

Has anywhere seen the price for a C200B in Europe?

I'm close to the point where I'm over the DSLR/Mirrorless form factor and want something that can churn out smoother, less colour-blocked footage. The price is still a little too high for my liking, and I've even been checking out sued C300 Mk2s and saw one go on eBay for 5k. I'm sure that was a scam though.

[Liszon]

Yeah, I'm curious about the EU C200B price as well. Haven't seen it anywhere.

[hijodeibn]

9 hours ago, Hanriverprod said:

Panasonic needs to leave dfd af and figure out how to compete with dpaf because amateurs and professionals without large crews know how much time and energy this saves on a shoot. Panny can come out with the best features but dpaf is joining the idea of canon colors on why most will go with them knowing that their overpriced cameras are being crippled.

My Gosh, DPAF is getting better and better every new canon camera, for a doc is a MUST, for fiction could not be a MUST but for the time it is going to save you in some shoots is mandatory at least in one camera…..if canon add 10 bit in the XF-AVC firmware upgrade is going to sell even more than the 5Diii.

[DBounce]

First review of RAW on the C200:

 

RAW footage samples... I'm pretty pumped for this camera.

 

[Kisaha]

Keeps mentioning 5000$, but it is more than 10.000EUROS in Europe at the moment. They will sell much less in EU with those prices.

Outstanding image for light RAW, slow motion is VERY soft, that was a bit unexpected (to that degree).

Hey, they turned @Mattias Burling metaphor to a reality, their C200 exploded!!

[gt3rs]

If I got it right from the cinema5d article it seems that Resolve 14 beta is already able to edit the Raw Light, it would be cool to have even only 10-20 seconds raw file to try it out. Any raw light around?

[robotfist]

I think this camera looks great and the Touchscreen DPAF looks incredible. I can't wait to try shooting wide open with a gimbal. It opens up so many possibilities. I like running lean crews and the more independence there is for the camera operator, the better. And if I want 10bit 4:2:2, I'll just pick up a BlackMagic Video Assist. Everything I am asked to deliver is still in 1080 right now, so no big deal. Looking forward to trying out the Panasonic as well. Both look like fantastic cameras and I think both will do well. The gap between the $50k cinema cameras and the sub-$10k prosumer world just got a lot smaller. I'd say in 5 years that gap will be gone.  I mean, it almost is with the C200. It might not have mid-level broadcast codecs but it looks like it will hold its own against a Red Epic-W right now with it's 12 bit Raw at 60p (which is $30k). That's actually better than the Epic-W which can't even shoot 60fps with the full sensor, eats V-Mounts and has no NDs. The C200 is competing with every camera in Red's line but the Weapon Helium.  I simply can't wait for the day that the only differentiation between camera models will be a company's color science (a place where Arri and Red still really shine).  

Bring it on. I'm sure Sony will respond to all this with their FS5 MK II and their a7S III.  I imagine Black Magic is working on their new Pocket Cinema Camera as well as increasing the light sensitivity for their next Ursa sensor. Things are getting very interesting. The next 5 years is going to be incredible. 

[BenEricson]

On 6/9/2017 at 8:27 AM, Kisaha said:

Outstanding image for light RAW, slow motion is VERY soft, that was a bit unexpected (to that degree).

Looks real sharp to me.

[IronFilm]

On 6/1/2017 at 2:28 AM, mercer said:

Idk, Panny. I like your style but not the argument. With the C200 you are basically getting 3 tiers of camera in one. It's an all arounder. Say you're shooting a low budget wedding or small event... shoot MP4. Say you're shooting some corporate work... shoot xavcs. Say you're shooting a doc, music video, short film, feature film... shoot in Raw. This is a very versatile camera and the specs seemed to be very well though out. 

C200 can't do XAVCS, as it is a Canon camera!

C200 is a very weird beast at the moment, that can do raw *or* a very low end codec. With absolutely no middle ground in between!

[HockeyFan12]

31 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

C200 can't do XAVCS, as it is a Canon camera!

C200 is a very weird beast at the moment, that can do raw *or* a very low end codec. With absolutely no middle ground in between!

But the middle ground is being added later and the low end codec looks better-implemented than Sony's more data-heavy codecs. Same with AVCHD on the C100 beating Sony's 50MPBS options on the A7S and even C300 footage beating the pants off the F5 until Sony released its film-emulating LUTs (which are pretty good, I'll gladly admit).

Granted, if it's not for you, it's not for you. The lack of a middle codec is annoying, and if you can't wait for it, I hear you. But I waited a lot longer for that F5 LUT.

And it seems to be for a whole lot of other people. Canon is the market leader for a reason. Like Arri, they don't focus on specs but they deliver on image and ergonomics and user experience. Big time.

Fwiw it's also not for me either (too expensive for me to spend on my hobby). But it looks like it follows in Canon's tradition of under appreciated excellence. And kudos to Canon for over-delivering so consistently. They're Arri for the little guys, both in excellence and in overpriced frustration lol. 

[Oliver Daniel]

On 09/06/2017 at 4:27 PM, Kisaha said:

Keeps mentioning 5000$, but it is more than 10.000EUROS in Europe at the moment. They will sell much less in EU with those prices.

Outstanding image for light RAW, slow motion is VERY soft, that was a bit unexpected (to that degree).

Hey, they turned @Mattias Burling metaphor to a reality, their C200 exploded!!

 

The HD slow motion is a big deal for me - I'm "expected" to provide this for my clients, hence my Sony camera domination. 

Even the A6500 has a very good 120fps mode. It might sharpen to up really nicely like FS700/FS5 slow motion does. 

[mercer]

7 hours ago, IronFilm said:

C200 can't do XAVCS, as it is a Canon camera!

C200 is a very weird beast at the moment, that can do raw *or* a very low end codec. With absolutely no middle ground in between!

Sorry, I made a misspec... I meant XF-AVC... which will be released next year in a firmware update. 

[jhnkng]

40 minutes ago, mercer said:

Sorry, I made a misspec... I meant XF-AVC... which will be released next year in a firmware update. 

I was at a C200 demo a few days ago and the Canon rep said he was absolutely sure that the XF-AVC upgrade was going to be 4:2:0 8bit writing to SD cards. I even pushed back asking if there was any chance of seeing a 4:2:2 8bit writing to the CFast card, and he said no. I have no idea how high up he is in the company, and how deep his connections are to the engineers working on the C200, so take it with a big pinch of salt. Considering the XC10 shoots 4K 4:2:2 8bit to CFast it's mindblowing that Canon wouldn't put that in the C200.

There was a lot of interest in the camera amongst the 12 or so of us in the room, and more than one person asked whether there would be a better codec coming in the future. I can't say for sure but I think if Canon had committed to even a future broadcast spec codec upgrade there might have been a couple of sales right there and then.

[mercer]

2 hours ago, jhnkng said:

I was at a C200 demo a few days ago and the Canon rep said he was absolutely sure that the XF-AVC upgrade was going to be 4:2:0 8bit writing to SD cards. I even pushed back asking if there was any chance of seeing a 4:2:2 8bit writing to the CFast card, and he said no. I have no idea how high up he is in the company, and how deep his connections are to the engineers working on the C200, so take it with a big pinch of salt. Considering the XC10 shoots 4K 4:2:2 8bit to CFast it's mindblowing that Canon wouldn't put that in the C200.

There was a lot of interest in the camera amongst the 12 or so of us in the room, and more than one person asked whether there would be a better codec coming in the future. I can't say for sure but I think if Canon had committed to even a future broadcast spec codec upgrade there might have been a couple of sales right there and then.

Last I checked, the website still has the details of that codec listed as TBA, so hopefully Canon will get feedback requesting that it be 10bit and they will fold. Probably not though. I can't afford to buy the camera, but I am very interested in renting one next summer for a short film. I would shoot it entirely in Raw so that mid grade codec really means nothing to me. But for others, I hope it's available!!!

[IronFilm]

On 6/23/2017 at 6:35 PM, HockeyFan12 said:

But the middle ground is being added later

Never a smart idea to buy a camera on the promise of what is to come in the future. 

Plus by the time it comes out, there will be even more other alternative options.

[DBounce]

4 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Never a smart idea to buy a camera on the promise of what is to come in the future. 

Plus by the time it comes out, there will be even more other alternative options.

I'll agree with your first statement. You really need to be comfortable with what specs that are certain. But your second statement seems to contradict your first. As these potential "other options" we know even less about.

What I will do is wait until there have been some reviews from people I trust in these matters. Then if all seems OK I will buy. No way I preorder without some good reviews with sample footage that I can download and play with.

[Andrew Reid]

On 23/06/2017 at 3:01 PM, jhnkng said:

I was at a C200 demo a few days ago and the Canon rep said he was absolutely sure that the XF-AVC upgrade was going to be 4:2:0 8bit writing to SD cards. I even pushed back asking if there was any chance of seeing a 4:2:2 8bit writing to the CFast card, and he said no. I have no idea how high up he is in the company, and how deep his connections are to the engineers working on the C200, so take it with a big pinch of salt. Considering the XC10 shoots 4K 4:2:2 8bit to CFast it's mindblowing that Canon wouldn't put that in the C200.

There was a lot of interest in the camera amongst the 12 or so of us in the room, and more than one person asked whether there would be a better codec coming in the future. I can't say for sure but I think if Canon had committed to even a future broadcast spec codec upgrade there might have been a couple of sales right there and then.

One day Canon's rep can explain to me why there is 300MBit 4:2:2 on the £1400 XC10 but just 100Mbit 4:2:0 on the £7500 C200

[tugela]

On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 7:27 AM, DBounce said:

First review of RAW on the C200:

 

RAW footage samples... I'm pretty pumped for this camera.

 

The first video is private. Looking at the second video on my laptop, the resolution looks good, but they did a terrible job grading it, the green looks too yellow. Not the fault of the camera, but a user error.

On ‎6‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 7:01 AM, jhnkng said:

I was at a C200 demo a few days ago and the Canon rep said he was absolutely sure that the XF-AVC upgrade was going to be 4:2:0 8bit writing to SD cards. I even pushed back asking if there was any chance of seeing a 4:2:2 8bit writing to the CFast card, and he said no. I have no idea how high up he is in the company, and how deep his connections are to the engineers working on the C200, so take it with a big pinch of salt. Considering the XC10 shoots 4K 4:2:2 8bit to CFast it's mindblowing that Canon wouldn't put that in the C200.

There was a lot of interest in the camera amongst the 12 or so of us in the room, and more than one person asked whether there would be a better codec coming in the future. I can't say for sure but I think if Canon had committed to even a future broadcast spec codec upgrade there might have been a couple of sales right there and then.

That seems weird, unless the hardware is just not set up for that. If that is the case then no firmware can change it. It may be something to do with the new processor, with perhaps the hardware encoder optimized for the Digic 8 variant so they can enable 4K footage in consumer models of their products.

7 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

One day Canon's rep can explain to me why there is 300MBit 4:2:2 on the £1400 XC10 but just 100Mbit 4:2:0 on the £7500 C200

It has to be because of the different processors used and the hardware encoding options available in each.

[jhnkng]

9 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

One day Canon's rep can explain to me why there is 300MBit 4:2:2 on the £1400 XC10 but just 100Mbit 4:2:0 on the £7500 C200

I'm kicking myself for not asking the same question!!
 

2 hours ago, tugela said:

That seems weird, unless the hardware is just not set up for that. If that is the case then no firmware can change it. It may be something to do with the new processor, with perhaps the hardware encoder optimized for the Digic 8 variant so they can enable 4K footage in consumer models of their products.

It has to be because of the different processors used and the hardware encoding options available in each.

The C200 ships with Dual Digic 6 processors which has got to be faster than the single Digic 5 in the XC10. There's no way the hardware couldn't support it. RAW output can't be the reason either because RAW is *less* processor intensive -- it just takes the sensor feed and writes it to a card, it doesn't have to debayer or add noise reduction or anything. 

Canon's own press release for XF-AVC lists the specs of the codec, and for 4K it can do either 8/10bit I-Frame 422 and for HD 8/10/12bit 420/422/444. Committing resources to creating an 8bit 420 for 4K just to protect the C300mkII would be *insane*, though I wouldn't put it past them. It might even explain why it doesn't ship with XF-AVC.

I walked into the demo planning the business case to finance the C200, and I walked out with an order for a C100 mkII. They're now selling the C100 mkII for $5000AUD and it comes with an Atomos Ninja Blade kit, vs the C200 with retails for $12499AUD. Easiest purchase decision I've ever made!