The other issue with the C200

[HockeyFan12]

Ursa Mini Pro is a big winner but IMO would be competitive as an A cam not a good b cam necessarily. 

[Jonesy Jones]

1 hour ago, spinkscapes said:

Pound for pound the Canon 5D mkIV has lovely video. Better, IMO, than the Sony offerings as a B-camera.

It's just that it is not purpose-built for video, has an intense codec and doesn't have a slow motion UHD option which seems out of place compared to cameras like the Panasonic GH5.

Isn't the Ursa Mini Pro (when properly kitted out) a very similar price to the C200?

Adding the BM viewfinder makes this true. Currently I do not have the vf and wouldn't use it much if I had it. It depends on how you shoot. But yes, this addition makes them roughly the same.

And there's also the C200B. Would that be a good B cam for the C200?

One thing I failed to mention about the UMPro is interchangeable mounts. Pretty big deal. 

I owned the original URSA and got the UMPro at the reduced price. I couldn't be happier. Stellar image. 

The C200 has DPAF and that's a huge advantage over the UMPro. I think the UMPro is going to see a price drop just around the release of the C200.

The lack of a stout codec makes the C200 DOA. Looking forward to that addition. If my filmmaking business continues to grow I could see getting C200 and using it alongside the UMPro. I think I still prefer the look and features of the UMPro, but DPAF, what I assume is better lowlight, in a smaller body makes me want the C200 as well. Too much for me at the moment though.

[TheRenaissanceMan]

4 hours ago, DBounce said:

I think the 1DXMk2 is a great B-Cam. It is perfect for situation where I need something rugged or need to go low-key. The video quality looks great. Granted the 12bit raw from the C200 is much more robust, but I'm sure there will be little trouble matching the two. This solution offers the best of both worlds.

But in terms of being smaller, lighter, and cheaper than the C200, it leaves something to be desired. 

[4CardsMan]

Fujifilm XT-2.  The problem will be getting the C200 to look as good.

[yoclay]

The whole premise of this article is that the price point of the cam is as an A-Cam is false.

The C200 is a B-Cam.

Not the other way around.

Despite the fact that the price point of the camera may be expensive for some people here does not make it an A-Cam.

Canon have a C300 and 700 series out there that shoot 4K.  The C100 does not. The C200 does for half the cost. That spells B-Cam.

Making the assumption that they should now come up with a B-Cam for their B-Cam strikes me as a bit silly.

 

 

 

 

 

[Hanriverprod]

Just now, yoclay said:

The whole premise of this article is that the price point of the cam is as an A-Cam is false.

The C200 is a B-Cam.

Not the other way around.

Despite the fact that the price point of the camera may be expensive for some people here does not make it an A-Cam.

Canon have a C300 and 700 series out there that shoot 4K.  The C100 does not. The C200 does for half the cost. That spells B-Cam.

Making the assumption that they should now come up with a B-Cam for their B-Cam strikes me as a bit silly.

 

 

 

 

 

That's the way it should be, but they put internal 'raw' in it.

[yoclay]

So then in fact it is probably more a B-Cam to the C700. Which makes sense to me.  Which also says the next generation C300 will have it too.

[Jonah James]

I plan on buying a C200 and cant see any issue using my 1DC as b camera.  In fact until the internal AVCHD codec arrives,  for the longer shoot where I don't need to shoot raw, the 1DC might even become the a camera, as it gives me 422 internally and the image is practically the same either way.

[yoclay]

What seems clear to me is that they also want C100 users to make the stretch upwards and they don't want to destroy the C300 market, which is broadcast, by bringing the broadcast level codec on board too soon. Who wants to bet against me that the C300 III comes out before this codec ?   I think the C100 series might also be toast in fact.  But that remains to be seen.  The RAW lite adds extended dynamic range and touches the indie market and the dual pixel AF is attractive to a lot of other folks in the industry.  I think it will smoke the new Panasonic for this reason.

For me it is very clear the C200 is a B-Cam to the C700 and the next generation C300 users.

[Oliver Daniel]

1 hour ago, yoclay said:

The whole premise of this article is that the price point of the cam is as an A-Cam is false.

The C200 is a B-Cam.

Not the other way around.

Despite the fact that the price point of the camera may be expensive for some people here does not make it an A-Cam.

Canon have a C300 and 700 series out there that shoot 4K.  The C100 does not. The C200 does for half the cost. That spells B-Cam.

Making the assumption that they should now come up with a B-Cam for their B-Cam strikes me as a bit silly.

 

(Thanks to Andrew for making this point an article). 

I do see your point in regarding the C200 as a B-cam, however in some ways it's better than it's bigger brother, and also for a lot of people, the investment in a C200 is certainly an A-cam. 

My A-cam is a Sony FS5, and with the FS7, F5 & F55 sitting above it, it can be both A and B as Sony have more cameras in their mirrorless range to take up the mantle. They've clearly thought about this as all their cameras have Slog2! 

Andrew makes some good points about the Sony range having much better suited videography features - IBIS, HFR, EVFs, Tilting Screens, smaller file sizes... these are the things Canon are missing with a supporting range of cameras in the lower end. 

I think a 2018 updated C200, with 5D MK IV and XC15 is certainly workable - yet has much more of a headache about it. 

The Canon advantages - colour science & DPAF will be challenged by Sony in the near furute. The A6500 has vastly improved colour and the autofocus as seen in the A9 is catching up. I wouldn't bet against seeing this system in a future FS camera to challenge Canon's DPAF stronghold. 

Panasonic have a monster of a duo on its hands with the EVA1 and GH5, which just lacks that DPAF like feature. 

As I did mention, it's an emotional thing. I smile in delight using my wife's budget Canon DSLR, a feeling that's vacantcwhen snapping with the A6500. Same goes for the video too (Blackmagic has that thrilling feel too). 

We're talking professional, and professional is business. I'm covered with Sony, almost completely. I don't think I'd see much difference in my income going Canon, if any. But I do want to be covered by Canon (for emotional reasons) hence my post. Their lack of better smaller cameras for video makes the prospect difficult to consider. 

EOS-M? I certainly hope to see an absolute corker here. But not expecting to. By that time, they'll be an FS5 II, A7S III, A6700 etc that may fix the issues we have with Sony. It's certainly worth being patient.

[Andrew Reid]

2 hours ago, yoclay said:

The whole premise of this article is that the price point of the cam is as an A-Cam is false.

The C200 is a B-Cam.

Not the other way around.

Despite the fact that the price point of the camera may be expensive for some people here does not make it an A-Cam.

Canon have a C300 and 700 series out there that shoot 4K.  The C100 does not. The C200 does for half the cost. That spells B-Cam.

Making the assumption that they should now come up with a B-Cam for their B-Cam strikes me as a bit silly.

Your whole premise is based on a slice of the market that isn't representative.

Ask any of the distributors, retailers and rental shops and they will tell you that the majority are using the C200 as their main rig.

That RED, C700, F55, Alexa users will consider it a B-camera does not make it "Not an A-cam" in the eyes of the rest of the pro video market.

I know Cinema5D think $8000 is little money... all those ads are clearly paying well.

For the rest of us it's an A-camera.

[OliKMIA]

Here

[Andrew Reid]

57 minutes ago, Oliver Daniel said:

Andrew makes some good points about the Sony range having much better suited videography features - IBIS, HFR, EVFs, Tilting Screens, smaller file sizes... these are the things Canon are missing with a supporting range of cameras in the lower end.

I know many pros through this site and in Berlin, they are all shooting A7R II, GH4, etc. despite owning the larger cameras... The supporting role is still valid.

They have cut-away angles that need a less experienced operator shooting handheld, so C200 is overkill for that role.

57 minutes ago, Oliver Daniel said:

I think a 2018 updated C200, with 5D MK IV and XC15 is certainly workable - yet has much more of a headache about it.

The headaches are a pity because they're unnecessary.

57 minutes ago, Oliver Daniel said:

The Canon advantages - colour science & DPAF will be challenged by Sony in the near furute. The A6500 has vastly improved colour and the autofocus as seen in the A9 is catching up. I wouldn't bet against seeing this system in a future FS camera to challenge Canon's DPAF stronghold.

Not to mention the electronic NDs which could filter down into more models and make an A7S Mk 3 much more viable even as an A-cam.

[mercer]

Idk, I would think that the people the C200 is marketed for, most would not use a B-Cam... or the C200B is the B-Cam... maybe?

Also, I am under the impression, correct me if I'm wrong, that pixel density auto focus cannot equal dual pixel auto focus and I believe Canon has that technology and any variant of it pretty locked up with patents. While the other manufacturers were dumping R&D into 4K, Canon chose to throw theirs at DPAF.

[Andrew Reid]

2 hours ago, Jonah James said:

I plan on buying a C200 and cant see any issue using my 1DC as b camera.  In fact until the internal AVCHD codec arrives,  for the longer shoot where I don't need to shoot raw, the 1DC might even become the a camera, as it gives me 422 internally and the image is practically the same either way.

1D C as a B-camera depends on how long you shoot for over the course of a day, because trust me that codec in 4K is not nice for long form content, interviews and live events.

[Liam]

Maybe a 4k nikon? Color science is often compared, but not sure about matching them exactly. Plus they still have issues

[mercer]

Also, I'm unsure why a 5D4 would be a headache as a B-Cam? If Fury Road can use 5D2s as B-cams and C-Cams to an Alexa, I'm pretty sure a 5D4 would be a suitable B-Cam to the C200. Or even a 5D3 with ML Raw.

[wolf33d]

@Andrew Reid the end of your article made me smile because Canon Rumors just announced that 6DII that will be soon announced (2 weeks) won't have 4K.

Another joke from Canon, yes I know. Hopefully though Canon Rumors are wrong, but even if they are, it's not gonna have a better codec and 4K than 5D4. End of the year or early 2018 Canon will release a FF mirorless but i am afraid this doesn't change their strategy regarding video.  

Such a shame, if we have Canon do an A7RII real competitor with same specs, XC15 codec, DPAF and canon lenses, with 5D4 still quality. Many of us would not look back and invest in canon lenses myself included...

[Andrew Reid]

Not a very good rumour. Not their highest rating for the source and specs sounds made up. 26MP? Makes no sense.

It's been nearly 6 years since the old 6D, they have to get it right.

55 minutes ago, Liam said:

Maybe a 4k nikon? Color science is often compared, but not sure about matching them exactly. Plus they still have issues

Problem there is the completely different set of lenses you'd need to buy and manual focus ring that turns in opposite direction plus the terrible 2x crop factor on the D500 and the expense of the D5 means you may as well get the 1D X Mark II instead with DPAF.

[Liam]

6 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Not a very good rumour. Not their highest rating for the source and specs sounds made up. 26MP? Makes no sense.

It's been nearly 6 years since the old 6D, they have to get it right.

Problem there is the completely different set of lenses you'd need to buy and manual focus ring that turns in opposite direction plus the terrible 2x crop factor on the D500 and the expense of the D5 means you may as well get the 1D X Mark II instead with DPAF.

Yeah but if he was somewhat considering keeping the sonys with the c200, he may be alright with a couple lens brands. Smaller files sizes than the mjpeg, and still larger sensor than xc10. Was just throwing it out there