The other issue with the C200

[Fritz Pierre]

18 minutes ago, DBounce said:

I can see from this conversation that some here think the B-cam is about price or quality... And therefore must be inferior to the A-cam, but the fact is it's about getting shot from a different angle to support the story. That's it... Nothing more.

Today yes...but again it depends on what you shoot...sometimes, in say the case of narrative, a 2nd unit camera would pick up shots missed the previous day or  establishing shots to name an example..could be exactly the model/camera....shooting in a completely different location...as cameras get cheaper and closer to each other in image, depending on the scene, you may have an A,B,C & D cam...however, the money shot is always going to be covered by your Acam (best imaging) while B or C cams will film alternative angles and perhaps even be sacrificed in the shot, say in the case of a crash or something...I think today the use of more than one camera per scene is far more common than in the old days...it of course presents far more challenges in lighting scenes too.

[Jimmy]

Oliver... If you are mixing your Sony B cam with FS5 raw, I'm not sure why you would have an issue mixing them with c200 raw

Sony raw has nice colours and skin tones

[Oliver Daniel]

4 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Oliver... If you are mixing your Sony B cam with FS5 raw, I'm not sure why you would have an issue mixing them with c200 raw

Sony raw has nice colours and skin tones

I was meant for this to come across from the needs of a sole videographer / two man band kinda thing. I'm looking at this as a hierarchy of cameras that serve a different purpose, but can also be cut between seamlessly in post. 

For instance - the FS5 kitted out does pretty much everything, it's the highest quality and therefore is the A-cam. The A6500 sits on a gimbal due to it's small size, autofocus and HFR. The A7SII grabs a different angle where the light isn't quite a good (lowlight) and shot handheld (IBIS). The RX100 is mounted into a tight space to grab a difficult angle I'd struggle with using the FS5, or be slipped out the pocket when a shot opportunity suddenly arrives. 

This is how myself, and many others I know set up their cameras and shoot. So with any major camera purchase, I have to think about the others too. 

I'm flirting around the C200 vibe as I'm a fan of Canon imagery. But I'm fine with Sony, and I'll stick with it. 

[Jimmy]

10 minutes ago, Oliver Daniel said:

I was meant for this to come across from the needs of a sole videographer / two man band kinda thing. I'm looking at this as a hierarchy of cameras that serve a different purpose, but can also be cut between seamlessly in post. 

For instance - the FS5 kitted out does pretty much everything, it's the highest quality and therefore is the A-cam. The A6500 sits on a gimbal due to it's small size, autofocus and HFR. The A7SII grabs a different angle where the light isn't quite a good (lowlight) and shot handheld (IBIS). The RX100 is mounted into a tight space to grab a difficult angle I'd struggle with using the FS5, or be slipped out the pocket when a shot opportunity suddenly arrives. 

This is how myself, and many others I know set up their cameras and shoot. So with any major camera purchase, I have to think about the others too. 

I'm flirting around the C200 vibe as I'm a fan of Canon imagery. But I'm fine with Sony, and I'll stick with it. 

 

Yes, ideally Canon would have an array of cheap cameras that use the same sensor/colour science... But that is not Canon's way (unless you have huge swathes of cash to have a couple of C200s, a 1D-Xii, a 5Div and maybe an XC15).... But If you are successfully using all those Sony cameras and they are blending well with the FS5 in raw, then swapping out the A cam shouldn't be too big a headache. The FS5 raw is so much better than the rest, with no inherent WB problems, yet you are still successfully matching them up. Matching them to a C200 shouldn't be that hard.

[hmcindie]

1 hour ago, Oliver Daniel said:

I was meant for this to come across from the needs of a sole videographer / two man band kinda thing. I'm looking at this as a hierarchy of cameras that serve a different purpose, but can also be cut between seamlessly in post. 

For instance - the FS5 kitted out does pretty much everything, it's the highest quality and therefore is the A-cam. The A6500 sits on a gimbal due to it's small size, autofocus and HFR. The A7SII grabs a different angle where the light isn't quite a good (lowlight) and shot handheld (IBIS). The RX100 is mounted into a tight space to grab a difficult angle I'd struggle with using the FS5, or be slipped out the pocket when a shot opportunity suddenly arrives. 

I've shot with Canon 5d h264, raw, sony rx10ii, sony a7s (mark i and ii) and the sony a7rII in the same shoot. Also with the canon 5d mk iv that intercut with a dji osmo and the older 5d mark iii.

You make it sound like you can only shoot with Sony or Canon cameras together. That's not true.

[Oliver Daniel]

2 hours ago, Jimmy said:

 

Yes, ideally Canon would have an array of cheap cameras that use the same sensor/colour science... But that is not Canon's way (unless you have huge swathes of cash to have a couple of C200s, a 1D-Xii, a 5Div and maybe an XC15).... But If you are successfully using all those Sony cameras and they are blending well with the FS5 in raw, then swapping out the A cam shouldn't be too big a headache. The FS5 raw is so much better than the rest, with no inherent WB problems, yet you are still successfully matching them up. Matching them to a C200 shouldn't be that hard.

 

No I don't think it would be - I've matched together four or five different brands before. 

Today I graded some footage from the FS5 in 4k ProRes from the Inferno, and it looks great. I don't see a great need to switch to a C200, it's just a bit of geeky curiosity. 

 

1 hour ago, hmcindie said:

I've shot with Canon 5d h264, raw, sony rx10ii, sony a7s (mark i and ii) and the sony a7rII in the same shoot. Also with the canon 5d mk iv that intercut with a dji osmo and the older 5d mark iii.

You make it sound like you can only shoot with Sony or Canon cameras together. That's not true.

 

When you have a business to run, and time is of the essence - having a perfectly streamlined range of cameras makes things a lot easier. Not essential, but purposefully done to save time and get consistent results. 

If you want to mix different brands together and it works - go for it. I still do it when necessary.

[jgharding]

We got the XC10 for this... but no nuts.

the fuzzy-motion noise reduction, not great low-light, all kinds of little quirks and issues... they do need a dedicated b-cam, but they're too afraid of losing sale.

A litlle half-size C50 with C100 sensor and so on would do it

Of course you'd want internal stabilisation, and they'll never give it to us due to wanting to flog stabilised lenses.

[mercer]

The Cinema Raw Light is so interesting to me that I wonder if they will start implementing a 1080p version in their lesser models. A 6D2 with CRL at 1080p up to 60p would be a genius move and nobody would even complain about it not having 4K.

Obviously, this is Canon we're talking about here, so it is highly unlikely they'll ever do such a thing, but damn it would be a smart move. Especially if they're having technical issues with 4K and overheating 

[BenEricson]

1 hour ago, jgharding said:

the fuzzy-motion noise reduction, not great low-light, all kinds of little quirks and issues... they do need a dedicated b-cam, but they're too afraid of losing sale.

Yes, the XC10 is ALMOST so good. The stabilizer is really great. I love the color you can get, but the image is a bit unreliable. In the right setting however, it looks amazing.

[OliKMIA]

On 6/16/2017 at 0:30 PM, Andrew Reid said:

Not a very good rumour. Not their highest rating for the source and specs sounds made up. 26MP? Makes no sense.

It's been nearly 6 years since the old 6D, they have to get it right.

 

 

On 6/16/2017 at 0:41 PM, OliKMIA said:

Don't underestimate Canon ! "See impossible". I'm sure they can fuck it up big time: 6 or 8 mpx bump, a flip screen, 1080/60 and they are good until 2022...
 

Apparently, Canon did it again. A 6D had sex with an 80D.. taaadaaaaaaaaa 2000$.....

http://www.canonwatch.com/canon-eos-6d-mark-ii-images-specifications/#disqus_thread

[tugela]

On ‎6‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 9:39 AM, jgharding said:

We got the XC10 for this... but no nuts.

the fuzzy-motion noise reduction, not great low-light, all kinds of little quirks and issues... they do need a dedicated b-cam, but they're too afraid of losing sale.

A litlle half-size C50 with C100 sensor and so on would do it

Of course you'd want internal stabilisation, and they'll never give it to us due to wanting to flog stabilised lenses.

Or not wanting to be sued because competitors hold the IP.

On ‎6‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 10:23 AM, mercer said:

The Cinema Raw Light is so interesting to me that I wonder if they will start implementing a 1080p version in their lesser models. A 6D2 with CRL at 1080p up to 60p would be a genius move and nobody would even complain about it not having 4K.

Obviously, this is Canon we're talking about here, so it is highly unlikely they'll ever do such a thing, but damn it would be a smart move. Especially if they're having technical issues with 4K and overheating 

The DV6 should have a Digic 8 sibling, so perhaps the new processor will have enough efficiency to start implementing 4K in hardware in consumer cameras. We will probably have to wait until the end of 2017 when the new processor starts appearing in powershot style cameras to get a sense of whether it will be good enough for that. The Digic 7 very likely already has a 4K encoder built into it, they just can't make use of it because the processor would get too hot.

37 minutes ago, OliKMIA said:

 

Apparently, Canon did it again. A 6D had sex with an 80D.. taaadaaaaaaaaa 2000$.....

http://www.canonwatch.com/canon-eos-6d-mark-ii-images-specifications/#disqus_thread

They are still stuck in 2013 it seems. I suppose that the development cycles for the higher end products are longer, so it is perhaps unreasonable to expect too much from a 6D mark 2 if it is released with the tech Canon have now.

Given the product cycles Canon has, it may be as late as 2019 before we start to see a competitive Canon hybrid, but by then of course everyone else would have moved on so they could well still be behind even then.

The best bet for such a camera would be a 7D mark 3 IMO, since we can expect to see a new model in that line sometime around late 2018.

 

[Kisaha]

I don't understand why the OP considers an FS5, an A7sII, an 6300 and an RX100 a match made in heaven. I haven't great experience with Sony cameras, but most of the times we are trying to mix and match different Sony cameras it is quite challenging. Even their APS-C cameras seem to have different color science.

A s35 camera, a full frame one, an APS-C one and a 1" one. A couple of different mounts and a compact.

It seems to me that Canon has more reliable and similar -to different products - color science than Sony. Sony will try to evolve their color science, so most of their future cameras will be different, as they aren't there yet.

C200 and C200B, I am wondering what the "B" stands for. Could it be "B" cam?

[Andrew Reid]

Body only.

[DBounce]

Shouldn't this thread really be called "the other issue with my budget"?

[Oliver Daniel]

45 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

I don't understand why the OP considers an FS5, an A7sII, an 6300 and an RX100 a match made in heaven. I haven't great experience with Sony cameras, but most of the times we are trying to mix and match different Sony cameras it is quite challenging. Even their APS-C cameras seem to have different color science.

They are not a match made in heaven, and this is because I don't "love" the Sony cameras. The image isn't there yet, however features-wise - they tick the boxes. 

14 minutes ago, DBounce said:

Shouldn't this thread really be called "the other issue with my budget"?

If I had the budget I'd buy everything for a laugh.

I, like many others, will purchase a feature packed main camera, and also buy smaller cameras to grab other bits of content. I wouldn't buy 2 or more of the "main" cameras, unless the majority of my shoots really needed it. 

I don't think there's anything wrong in saying that I'd struggle to change to a Canon setup, because their lower end doesn't match my needs, to support a C200 purchase. 

For all I know, I could have this weird epiphany and make an indie blockbuster using a 5D mk IV mixed with a GoPro and Olympus EM1 II using a Helios 58mm as the only lens. Whatever works.

The Sony setup works for me and my shooting strategy, but I'm not connected emotionally to the "feel" of the imagery, hence my greater liking to Canon. 

 

[DBounce]

16 minutes ago, Oliver Daniel said:

They are not a match made in heaven, and this is because I don't "love" the Sony cameras. The image isn't there yet, however features-wise - they tick the boxes. 

If I had the budget I'd buy everything for a laugh.

I, like many others, will purchase a feature packed main camera, and also buy smaller cameras to grab other bits of content. I wouldn't buy 2 or more of the "main" cameras, unless the majority of my shoots really needed it. 

I don't think there's anything wrong in saying that I'd struggle to change to a Canon setup, because their lower end doesn't match my needs, to support a C200 purchase. 

For all I know, I could have this weird epiphany and make an indie blockbuster using a 5D mk IV mixed with a GoPro and Olympus EM1 II using a Helios 58mm as the only lens. Whatever works.

The Sony setup works for me and my shooting strategy, but I'm not connected emotionally to the "feel" of the imagery, hence my greater liking to Canon. 

 

Point taken, but it's not really an issue with the C200 is it?

[BenEricson]

On 6/20/2017 at 7:58 AM, Oliver Daniel said:

Today I graded some footage from the FS5 in 4k ProRes from the Inferno, and it looks great. I don't see a great need to switch to a C200, it's just a bit of geeky curiosity. 

Color and autofocus.

First and Third are Sigma 18-35 1.8 - The second shot is with the 70-200 at 2.8. ISO 1000. First take, nails focus the entire path.

The Sony FS5/FS7 can look nice, but this horribly lit hospital would be pretty tough. This is C300ii.

 

 

[Andrew Reid]

5 minutes ago, BenEricson said:

Color and autofocus.

Don't think Canon has a colour advantage any more. I am getting often superior results with EOSHD Pro Color on the A99 II, and the GH5's 10bit is something else.

[BenEricson]

4 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Don't think Canon has a colour advantage any more. I am getting often superior results with EOSHD Pro Color on the A99 II, and the GH5's 10bit is something else.

Superior to the c300ii? ? 

I'm mainly talking about the Fs5 and Fs7, since they are similar in features. 

[wolf33d]

On 6/17/2017 at 7:13 PM, wolf33d said:

   On 6/16/2017 at 0:12 PM,  wolf33d said: 

@Andrew Reid the end of your article made me smile because Canon Rumors just announced that 6DII that will be soon announced (2 weeks) won't have 4K.

Another joke from Canon, yes I know. Hopefully though Canon Rumors are wrong, but even if they are, it's not gonna have a better codec and 4K than 5D4. End of the year or early 2018 Canon will release a FF mirorless but i am afraid this doesn't change their strategy regarding video.  

 

   On 6/16/2017 at 0:30 PM,  Andrew Reid said: 

Not a very good rumour. Not their highest rating for the source and specs sounds made up. 26MP? Makes no sense.

It's been nearly 6 years since the old 6D, they have to get it right.

 

Well, rumor now updated to CR3 rating. 1080P it looks. Let's see in 2 weeks.

@Andrew Reid

Confirmed, no 4K for 6D, seems that you were wrong. http://www.canonrumors.com/first-images-more-specifications-for-the-canon-eos-6d-mark-ii-leak/