Any love for the Canon EOS M5?

[andrgl]

Found one used for $600, haven't touched these since the M1:

GOOD

• tiny
• flip-out touchscreen
• dpaf
• ibis
• canon color
• 60fps slomo

BAD

• native lens select still shit
• soft 1080
• no 4k
• price as new laughable
• meh video DR (raw stills at 100 are noice)
• paperthin 8bit files not worth trying to grade

THOUGHTS

An almost perfect consumer hybrid from Canon. Thank fuck for competition. Panasonic and Sony have woken the giant from a 5 year slumber.

Forgot how much fun a tiny cam to snap pics and shoot a few family videos could be.

[mercer]

I don't need the EVF, so I was thinking about picking up an M6 eventually. Pair it with the 22mm f/2 and it would be a great Pocket cam for casual shooting or interesting, lo-fi projects. I recently found this video shot handheld with the G7X Mark ii and think it looks pretty spectacular...

With the DPAF of the M series, you could have a nice compact set up. I have an M10, which I plan on selling, but the focus peaking is the best I've ever used, so that's a plus too. 

[andrgl]

10 minutes ago, mercer said:

With the DPAF of the M series, you could have a nice compact set up. I have an M10, which I plan on selling, but the focus peaking is the best I've ever used, so that's a plus too. 

I'm sure others would tell us the Sony A#### or Panny G#### are superior in so many ways but all Canon needs for the next M is 4K video. Stabilization and auto-focus are already top notch. And I found the M5 ergonomics superior for cameras this size. (G7 was pretty good too.)

[Cinegain]

Wait, how is stabilization top notch with Canon? They only have silly e-stabilization, no?

And that embedded video... actually, the image quality isn't too great and you'd already only use the your best shots, but the guy knows his composition, editing, grading etc that makes up for it. Just goes to show that it's the one that presses the buttons that matters, not the device the buttons are placed on. For vloggers etc however, a Canon is just a breeze to work with, you could just shoot away, drop the footage on the timeline, cut the sequence and you're done. If... like... the content is the only thing that matters, I mean, there's enough shakey portrait mode videos shot on potatoes that have gone viral. Though... if you're want to add a touch of actual cinematography and want the most control and information captured as possible... you can't deny that a Sony A-series or Panny G-series is flippin' awesome. They've got more to offer than that point-n-shoot characteristic of anything that's Canon consumer range and especially Panasonic is doing it rather well, I'd say.

[mercer]

35 minutes ago, Cinegain said:

Wait, how is stabilization top notch with Canon? They only have silly e-stabilization, no?

And that embedded video... actually, the image quality isn't too great and you'd already only use the your best shots, but the guy knows his composition, editing, grading etc that makes up for it. Just goes to show that it's the one that presses the buttons that matters, not the device the buttons are placed on. For vloggers etc however, a Canon is just a breeze to work with, you could just shoot away, drop the footage on the timeline, cut the sequence and you're done. If... like... the content is the only thing that matters, I mean, there's enough shakey portrait mode videos shot on potatoes that have gone viral. Though... if you're want to add a touch of actual cinematography and want the most control and information captured as possible... you can't deny that a Sony A-series or Panny G-series is flippin' awesome. They've got more to offer than that point-n-shoot characteristic of anything that's Canon consumer range and especially Panasonic is doing it rather well, I'd say.

I don't know I think you're missing the point of the original post and my subsequent reply. 

I mean I can argue that the XC10 has the best 4K image under $2000, better than anything Panny or Sony is offering. But irrelevant to the conversation at hand. 

[andrgl]

57 minutes ago, Cinegain said:

Wait, how is stabilization top notch with Canon? They only have silly e-stabilization, no?

And that embedded video... actually, the image quality isn't too great and you'd already only use the your best shots, but the guy knows his composition, editing, grading etc that makes up for it. Just goes to show that it's the one that presses the buttons that matters, not the device the buttons are placed on. For vloggers etc however, a Canon is just a breeze to work with, you could just shoot away, drop the footage on the timeline, cut the sequence and you're done. If... like... the content is the only thing that matters, I mean, there's enough shakey portrait mode videos shot on potatoes that have gone viral. Though... if you're want to add a touch of actual cinematography and want the most control and information captured as possible... you can't deny that a Sony A-series or Panny G-series is flippin' awesome. They've got more to offer than that point-n-shoot characteristic of anything that's Canon consumer range and especially Panasonic is doing it rather well, I'd say.

Is it really only electronic? Haha. Man, I'm guilty of talking shit against estab because of what motion blur does to the image, but to be honest, after testing both cameras, the M5 and GX85 seemed to be identical in smoothing shake.

End of the day, because it was used and I had a few EOSM accessories laying around, this camera was cheaper to own than a A6500 or GX85.

[Cinegain]

Quote

Movie: In-camera 5-axis Digital IS available.

No physical sensor shifting. But, opposed to like plain warp stabilization, it's very possible it has a combination of accelerometers/gyro to improve results (think: SteadXP style).

GX80 with 12-35mm is already below 600 bucks here, body only even considerably less. And that's new... Paired with a compact lens like e.g. the Leica 15mm f/1.7, I can't think of a better fun tiny snapper tbh. Of course it indeed depends of what you've got lying around and you're style of shooting etc is. In the end it's all good if you can make it work.

Recently YT oldtimer Philip DeFranco (or should I say Joe Nation, who filmed) went VCR/DV-style and with the edits and cheesy transitions, it did kinda have something nostalgically cool; which again shows I guess that quality is not everything, it's what you do with it. Gotta have fun with it.

 

[mercer]

Keep us posted, I'd really like to see what the new generation of M models have to offer from someone that knows what they're doing.

[Cinegain]

Dave had some good point to go for the Canons...

But... with the EOS-M5 they've like copied their PowerShot G5 X and turned it into a mirrorless interchangeable lens system... without the same vari-angle screen (D'OH!). It's a step in the right direction, but... Fujifilm, Olympus, Sony and Panasonic seem just leaps and bounds ahead concerning the features game, they're not holding back... which I think is kinda silly. Because I don't really care about brands... whatever works I get. And that could be a Canon or Nikon as well, so... are they succesfully protecting certain line-ups and still selling these held back cameras like hot cakes? Dunno. I guess. But it's a damn shame, because that DPAF, with Canon color science, with a well supported mount would be dope... if it were 4K with proper codec, sensor stabilization etc. Oh well.

[mercer]

24 minutes ago, Cinegain said:

Dave had some good point to go for the Canons...

But... with the EOS-M5 they've like copied their PowerShot G5 X and turned it into a mirrorless interchangeable lens system... without the same vari-angle screen (D'OH!). It's a step in the right direction, but... Fujifilm, Olympus, Sony and Panasonic seem just leaps and bounds ahead concerning the features game, they're not holding back... which I think is kinda silly. Because I don't really care about brands... whatever works I get. And that could be a Canon or Nikon as well, so... are they succesfully protecting certain line-ups and still selling these held back cameras like hot cakes? Dunno. I guess. But it's a damn shame, because that DPAF, with Canon color science, with a well supported mount would be dope... if it were 4K with proper codec, sensor stabilization etc. Oh well.

Yes they are. Last year, Canon was the 2nd best seller of mirrorless cameras in their home market. Getting 19% market share, they beat out Sony and Panasonic. Olympus was in the lead.

[mercer]

Don't get me wrong, Canon infuriates me sometimes. Within the next 6 months I am probably going to re-enter the 4K market. I was hoping it was going to be the 6Dii but now it looks like they're not going to include 4K in their $2000 camera. I find that to be absolutely ridiculous and non sensical. If the rumored FF mirrorless is released by the end of the year and it has 4K, I will probably be a customer. I already have a couple EF lenses. Since I'm in no rush right now to get a 4K camera, I can wait a while, but if they don't include 4K in that FF mirrorless, then I will probably sell my EF lenses, shoot ML Raw with my Nikkors and then probably get an Olympus or a GH5... as much as I don't really want a GH5, you are right, the features are undeniable.

Of course I could go with a D7500 as well and be just as happy as I would with a Canon... even though the crop in 4K is mildly irritating... the footage I've seen from the D500 with its identical sensor and video features, has been pretty impressive. 

In the meantime, I am looking for a pocket/glove box cam. Something casual for snapshots and the occasional video. I would rather have Canon color and good autofocus, plus 60p for slow motion. That cam I will buy by the end of the summer and it will most likely be either the G7Xii or the EOS-M6. I haven't decided yet. But I love the video I posted earlier from the G7Xii so I am leaning in that direction. The color, IS and focus tracking looks phenomenal to me... for what it is. 

Also, Canon gets knocked a lot for their soft 1080p, but when I see video shot well with a Canon DSLR, it makes me happy. I don't ever think if only that was in 4K, it would be better. I mean look at this video. It was mostly shot with a Canon t5i and some shots with a G85, and even though I can pretty much pick out the shots that are Panny, I didn't like the rest of the video any less, in fact I would have been happy if the G85 shots weren't included...

 

[Andrew Reid]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

Yes they are. Last year, Canon was the 2nd best seller of mirrorless cameras in their home market. Getting 19% market share, they beat out Sony and Panasonic. Olympus was in the lead.

Who cares about sales?

Most people are sheep with minimum knowledge, and as I'm not a Canon shareholder I don't care about who is in the lead of sales, I care about what is going to give me the most artistic image, best specs, the most convenient form factor and best value for money.

[mercer]

29 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Who cares about sales?

Most people are sheep with minimum knowledge, and as I'm not a Canon shareholder I don't care about who is in the lead of sales, I care about what is going to give me the most artistic image, best specs, the most convenient form factor and best value for money.

I am not disagreeing with you, I was merely answering why Canon may be holding back investing R&D into things we may find important as a minority in the world of consumer cameras.

From a business standpoint, I can't say I disagree with their logic. As a consumer, I wish they offered more. 

But as an artist, can you say your work is any better than your GH1/GH2 days? Has any of these, rush to market, advancements made your work any better?

I am seriously asking your opinion on this. Because I am a fan of your work. Some of your early GH1 footage is inspiring, even to today's standards. I almost bought a GH2 yesterday after watching one of your earlier cinematography reels.

[Inazuma]

@mercer A well made video is a well made video but Ive always felt Canon dslr 1080p was soft to the point of being distracting. To each their own though... i have a friend that swears 5d3 footage (non ML) looks sharp, especially with L lenses.  I really hope the 6D ii has good 1080p. 

[mercer]

7 hours ago, Inazuma said:

@mercer A well made video is a well made video but Ive always felt Canon dslr 1080p was soft to the point of being distracting. To each their own though... i have a friend that swears 5d3 footage (non ML) looks sharp, especially with L lenses.  I really hope the 6D ii has good 1080p. 

Well, IMO, the brilliance of the DSLR movement was that it gave the indie filmmaker the ability to create shallow depth of field.

With close ups and blurred backgrounds filmmakers could shoot inconspicuously in public and not need the budget to worry about sets or people walking by. The softish nature of Canon DSLR video is a plus with close ups... who wants razor sharp portrait shots?

Now obviously it's difficult to make a film without any wide angles, and this is where that Canon soft look fails.

My whole point was that people are too crazy, worrying about the next and best advancement in IQ, when in most instances it doesn't help their work. I have been guilty of it.

Look at Kendy Ty, a man revered for his t2i films shot with one lens. He recently switched over to the a6300 and in my opinion his work has actually suffered for it.

On the other hand, people like what they like... and I couldn't care less how they spend their money.

For me and my work, if I'm not shooting Raw, I want a camera that will make my life easier, so DPAF is definitely something on my radar. I love Canon's IS and focus peaking, so those features outweigh my need for 4K, especially since most consumer 4K looks brittle, oversharpened and plastic.

Also, other than the a7s, for its lowlight capabilities, and GoPro, for its tiny footprint, the 5D is the most used "consumer" camera used in Hollywood films. If it's good enough for George Miller...

Look at the Zacuto Shootout and how well the GH2 was received. Wasn't it Coppola's favorite? If that shootout occurred today and they pit the GH5 against the Alexa, I'm not so sure they'd receive the same results... but maybe. 

But I get it... I want 4K too. But do I really need it? But again this is just my opinion... I have very specific needs due to the films I am working on. I need an inconspicuous footprint to get my shots. Other people have other needs and tastes. In the end, whatever produces work the creator is happy with, or can afford, is the right tool for the job. For some that's 4K, for some it's soft DSLR video from a Canon.

[mercer]

But anyway, sorry for going off on a tangent about all this. Just something I've been thinking about lately. @andrgl I have been searching and searching for M5 videos this morning and I don't think any filmmaker has bought this camera. I am really interested to know how you get along with it. So please post a video after you put it through its paces. 

[Dave Maze]

I'm sure you would love the M5 or M6. The image is quite noisy. I'm not sure why but it is. I just picked up an 80D personally and so far am really happy with it as I already own a Canon1DC that I use for higher end projects. 

Don't worry. No scripture in this one.

 

[bamigoreng]

21 hours ago, mercer said:

Look at Kendy Ty, a man revered for his t2i films shot with one lens. He recently switched over to the a6300 and in my opinion his work has actually suffered for it.

My thoughts exactly (https://vimeo.com/channels/kendy/videos).

[samuel.cabral]

If the M5/M6 are just mirrorless 80Ds, the hardware is awesome for RAW video. But for now we don't have a Magic Lantern port for these cameras... (different system, more like point and shoot Canons). 

As is... Even 1080p is poorly implemented by Canon. ?

[andrgl]

1 hour ago, samuel.cabral said:

If the M5/M6 are just mirrorless 80Ds, the hardware is awesome for RAW video. But for now we don't have a Magic Lantern port for these cameras... (different system, more like point and shoot Canons). 

As is... Even 1080p is poorly implemented by Canon. ?

Never will, M5 uses a different firmware so it can't get ML. Maybe the next one.