Magic Lantern Raw Video

[kye]

On 3/24/2019 at 11:48 AM, DigitalOxygen.ca said:

I have this same question. Most of the examples I see online show resolutions I don't seem to be able to get even with the experimental 10-bit builds. For example this article on this very site shows resolutions like 1792 x 762 on the 6d and even 70d. I finally discovered it's with experimental builds for 10-bit but even with that neither camera can do continuous above 1600 x 680 give or take. In most of the sources there doesn't seem to be mention of the sd_uhs hack so I feel like I'm missing something somewhere.

Any help would be very greatly appreciated.

I think I figured it out eventually, but I can't recall what it was unfortunately, so sorry I can't be of more help.

I do have a vague recollection that they are available in a different menu/mode?

[DigitalOxygen.ca]

17 minutes ago, kye said:

I think I figured it out eventually, but I can't recall what it was unfortunately, so sorry I can't be of more help.

I do have a vague recollection that they are available in a different menu/mode?

I played around a bit more and noticed that in a particular view of the resolutions it said something at the bottom about using left / right on the directional pad to fine tune the adjustments. I'm not near it at the moment so don't recall the wording or which screen it was on (it wasn't all of them that allowed resolution adjustments, just one I think). The directional buttons allow you to cycle through the "in between" resolutions.

[kye]

4 hours ago, DigitalOxygen.ca said:

I played around a bit more and noticed that in a particular view of the resolutions it said something at the bottom about using left / right on the directional pad to fine tune the adjustments. I'm not near it at the moment so don't recall the wording or which screen it was on (it wasn't all of them that allowed resolution adjustments, just one I think). The directional buttons allow you to cycle through the "in between" resolutions.

That sounds vaguely familiar! Awesome you found it

How are you finding ML?

There are many people who prefer it, even to the BM cameras.

[DigitalOxygen.ca]

9 hours ago, kye said:

That sounds vaguely familiar! Awesome you found it

How are you finding ML?

There are many people who prefer it, even to the BM cameras.

Honestly so far I'm not sold on it. On paper it seems amazing and in lots of ways it is, but practically speaking for me it's not a game changer... yet. Being limited to odd crop sizes and limited frame rates (i.e. hard to get decent res at 60fps) is not great. Fully understand the hardware limitations all the ML contributors have to work with. The effort and ingenuity being put in to work around the limitations is amazing but I need more time with it to see if the downsides and extra workflow elements is worthwhile for me.  So far it seems like if the scene is exposed properly there isn't a massive noticeable difference in the final footage with raw vs the default h.264. But again I need more time to fine tune the settings and figure out the best workflow.

[kye]

9 hours ago, DigitalOxygen.ca said:

Honestly so far I'm not sold on it. On paper it seems amazing and in lots of ways it is, but practically speaking for me it's not a game changer... yet. Being limited to odd crop sizes and limited frame rates (i.e. hard to get decent res at 60fps) is not great. Fully understand the hardware limitations all the ML contributors have to work with. The effort and ingenuity being put in to work around the limitations is amazing but I need more time with it to see if the downsides and extra workflow elements is worthwhile for me.  So far it seems like if the scene is exposed properly there isn't a massive noticeable difference in the final footage with raw vs the default h.264. But again I need more time to fine tune the settings and figure out the best workflow.

I think it's also due to your personal preferences.  There are a group of people on this forum that really appreciate the image from the original BMPCC and another group that don't rate it as being particularly special.  Because of that difference, some people are willing to put up with the quirks and weaknesses of the camera, and others opt for better all-around performers as the 'downgrade' in image quality is worth it for the ease of use for them.
I suspect ML is the same.  Some absolutely adore the image and others don't.  It also depends on what body you're shooting, what lenses you have, and what particular features you're interested in using.  I really appreciated the 3x crop mode which turned my 55-250mm lens into the 35mm equivalent of a 264-1200mm zoom, and combined with the nice IS of that lens, it was even usable at 1200mm!  Now I have a GH5 and the 3x crop mode of ML is still something I miss a little bit.

[mercer]

@Andrew Reid I think I remember reading that you have the Canon FD 50mm 1.2 L converted to EF?

I just bought one for a song and was wondering if you’ve used it with your 5D3 and ML Raw?

[kaylee]

heyyyyy yallll

so its been a while since the big 3.5k ML April Fools *Not A Joke* reveal and i feel like things kinda stagnated with all that

are these higher k modes useable now? has there been any recent progress?

sadly,

Kaylee

[mercer]

@Andrew Reid your 3.5K Magic Lantern Raw Guide is excellent. It’s well written and easy to understand. 

Although the 3.5K is pretty amazing, I’m most impressed with the 1080p 14bit lossless! Not only are the smaller, file sizes a Godsend, it seems the image is sharper and cleaner in the shadows than uncompressed 14bit! Is this just in my head?

Thanks for supplying these guides, I don’t think you get enough credit for them... they’re priceless!!!

[The ghost of squig]

I just did a few jobs for independent candidates running for parliament. Besides some gopro adventure footage at the beginning of the first film, it's all 5D MK3 14bit lossless. 99% shot with an old Leica 35mm summicron-r, a few shots with the 90mm summicron and 135mm elmarit-r. Almost all of it shot from the shoulder. Also used a B+W Käsemann polariser and a cheap Hoya ND. Cut and graded in Resolve 16 with filmconvert and http://www.colorghear.com/ , upscaled to UHD.

 

 

 

 

[mercer]

@The ghost of squig welcome aboard, I think you’ll find this place very hospitable...

I just started using the 14bit Lossless from the experimental build and am pretty floored by it. It’s breathing new life into the camera. While others are jumping ship, I feel reenergized by the camera. Do you know if it’s available in the Nightlies too? I found the 3.5K to be too buggy and the 3K has too much of a crop, so I don’t really need to run an experimental build if the 14bit Lossless is stable on a nightly. 

[The ghost of squig]

16 hours ago, mercer said:

@The ghost of squig welcome aboard, I think you’ll find this place very hospitable...

I just started using the 14bit Lossless from the experimental build and am pretty floored by it. It’s breathing new life into the camera. While others are jumping ship, I feel reenergized by the camera. Do you know if it’s available in the Nightlies too? I found the 3.5K to be too buggy and the 3K has too much of a crop, so I don’t really need to run an experimental build if the 14bit Lossless is stable on a nightly. 

Hehe.

No lossless in the nightlies. I only shoot 1080p, the rolling shutter in 3k is horrendous. 1080p raw upscaled to 4K looks solid. I just bought an X-T3 and a Pocket 4K, I'll be testing them both up against the Mk3 raw and posting the results when I have time. I love the look of the Mk3 raw, but the 11.7 stop dynamic range is a big limitation.

[Mattias Burling]

3 hours ago, The ghost of squig said:

Hehe.

No lossless in the nightlies. I only shoot 1080p, the rolling shutter in 3k is horrendous. 1080p raw upscaled to 4K looks solid. I just bought an X-T3 and a Pocket 4K, I'll be testing them both up against the Mk3 raw and posting the results when I have time. I love the look of the Mk3 raw, but the 11.7 stop dynamic range is a big limitation.

Will be interesting to see how they compare. 

These videos looked great, the first one was my favorite. Gorgeous grade. And man does a shoulder rig beat gimbals imo..

Does ML work with an external monitor, any restrictions?

19 hours ago, mercer said:

@The ghost of squig welcome aboard, I think you’ll find this place very hospitable...

I just started using the 14bit Lossless from the experimental build and am pretty floored by it. 

Know of any samples online for download?

[Emanuel]

Lovely footage, Anthony, you made that combo sing! In a documentary style of your very own no doubts on there ; ) You could apply with that material to any doc competition indeed and let us to enjoy all that together, think on it ; -)

1080p? Upscaled to 4K? WTH that finely proves there are no pixels to matter but talent to make them shine!

 

Glad you're here again alive and kickin'! (E : -)

[The ghost of squig]

2 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Will be interesting to see how they compare. 

These videos looked great, the first one was my favorite. Gorgeous grade. And man does a shoulder rig beat gimbals imo..

Does ML work with an external monitor, any restrictions?

Thanks. ML works fine with external monitors, I have a smallHD 501 and AC7, but in this case I was using a Zacuto Z-Finder, the extra point of contact with my face helps with stabilization.I left the Ronin-M at home, didn't need it, and doing up to 19 hour days I had no time for it.

25 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Lovely footage, Anthony, you made that combo sing! In a documentary style of your very own no doubts on there ; ) You could apply with that material to any doc competition indeed and let us to enjoy all that together, think on it ; -)

1080p? Upscaled to 4K? WTH that finely proves there are no pixels to matter but talent to make them shine!

 

Glad you're here again alive and kickin'! (E : -)

Thanks. Yeah, the 5D Mk3 raw looks good upscaled to 4K, I have no complaints about the resolution, the 35 Leica is 70s vintage and not the sharpest lens either. As always, it's all about the story.

[Emanuel]

50 minutes ago, The ghost of squig said:

Thanks. ML works fine with external monitors, I have a smallHD 501 and AC7, but in this case I was using a Zacuto Z-Finder, the extra point of contact with my face helps with stabilization.I left the Ronin-M at home, didn't need it, and doing up to 19 hour days I had no time for it.

Thanks. Yeah, the 5D Mk3 raw looks good upscaled to 4K, I have no complaints about the resolution, the 35 Leica is 70s vintage and not the sharpest lens either. As always, it's all about the story.

And mostly talent IMHO, without it, fail. I loved that face factor steady... LOL As well, the vintage policy! ; -)

[Mattias Burling]

2 hours ago, The ghost of squig said:

Thanks. ML works fine with external monitors, I have a smallHD 501 and AC7, but in this case I was using a Zacuto Z-Finder, the extra point of contact with my face helps with stabilization.I left the Ronin-M at home, didn't need it, and doing up to 19 hour days I had no time for it.

Cool, might have to revisit this thing. Now days when Im 95% stills and do enjoy a good DSLR its an even better match.

[mercer]

9 hours ago, The ghost of squig said:

Hehe.

No lossless in the nightlies. I only shoot 1080p, the rolling shutter in 3k is horrendous. 1080p raw upscaled to 4K looks solid. I just bought an X-T3 and a Pocket 4K, I'll be testing them both up against the Mk3 raw and posting the results when I have time. I love the look of the Mk3 raw, but the 11.7 stop dynamic range is a big limitation.

With the 3K/3.5K, I found keeping the shutter angle at 180 degrees and the choppy live view to be way too restrictive for the end result. But the 14 bit Lossless is insane... it nearly doubles my storage and seems a touch sharper than uncompressed.

Yes, please post some side by sides when you get a chance. The X-T3 has a nice look to it and I love that it shoots cinema 2K at a hefty bitrate. I almost bought a BMPCC 4K, but it seems there’s something missing from the original Pocket/Micro that I wish it had. With that being said, it does have a beautiful image and I’d love the convenience of ProRes and FCPX. I’m looking to build a small Micro Rig for those times I want to shoot with my c-mounts and have a simpler post workflow. 

6 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Know of any samples online for download?

No, I don’t know of any but I am heading out this weekend to “officially” test it for my film, so I can probably put something together for you next week, if that helps? Just let me know what type of footage you’d like to see.

[The ghost of squig]

8 minutes ago, mercer said:

Yes, please post some side by sides when you get a chance. The X-T3 has a nice look to it and I love that it shoots cinema 2K at a hefty bitrate.

Will do. The X-T3 does look good, but like every camera I'm discovering its quirks which have me thinking I'll probably have to shoot with it and the Pocket 4K to get everything I want to film shot. Unfortunately we're still not at the point where there's a sub $10,000 camera that can do it all. By all I'm speaking in terms of internal raw and DPAF in particular.

[mercer]

1 hour ago, The ghost of squig said:

Unfortunately we're still not at the point where there's a sub $10,000 camera that can do it all. By all I'm speaking in terms of internal raw and DPAF in particular.

To everything... there is a season.

Although I completely agree with you, I think we’re spoiled in a lot of ways and I’m noticing it more and more as a newer generation of shooters show up on this forum.

I’d love 16 stops of DR and DPAF with internal Raw and/or ProRes but those specs won’t make me a better filmmaker. I’d love an IBIS mirrorless that has the latitude of an Alexa Mini... but then what would I strive for and work toward?

1080p is still more than enough for me. Even at a little less than 12 stops, the 5D3 still blows me away.

With that being said, I’ve recently found and posted some trailers from some micro budget, indie features that really impressed me...

This was shot in ProRes LT on the OG Pocket with one lens...

And this was shot on Raw with the OG Pocket...

This is the kind of work that inspires me and for the price of the Pocket/Micro, the Micro will make a more sensible second camera for me right now. Or maybe that new Z-Cam E2C but there are a lot of unknowns with it.

However, I do wish Arri would enter the sub-$10,000 market with a camera that includes some of the features from the Alexa Classic in a more shooter friendly form factor. No matter how many Alexa comparison videos are marketed on YouTube, I still don’t think anything even comes close to the Alexa... but BlackMagic is getting closer.

[The ghost of squig]

24 minutes ago, mercer said:

To everything... there is a season.

Although I completely agree with you, I think we’re spoiled in a lot of ways and I’m noticing it more and more as a newer generation of shooters show up on this forum.

I’d love 16 stops of DR and DPAF with internal Raw and/or ProRes but those specs won’t make me a better filmmaker. I’d love an IBIS mirrorless that has the latitude of an Alexa Mini... but then what would I strive for and work toward?

It's all about having the right tool for the job and efficiencies. On a 30 day Alexa shoot, a 1st AC would add $8000 to my budget, including food, accommodation, travel, etc.A gaffer, that's another $8000. Steadicam operator for that Alexa? There goes another $10,000. All fine when you have a 500k budget, not so much with an 80k budget. Tech like DPAF, dual ISO, and Braw makes lower budget projects with high production values more viable.