Magic Lantern Raw Video

[ZEEK]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

Btw, if you like that 25mm, I’m pretty sure the Contax version is the same optical formula, just with better coatings.

And if you like the Zeiss Jena, East German lenses, you have to try the 35mm 2.4 and the 50mm 2.8. What they lacked in quality control, they surely made up in image quality. 

Good to know! May look into it as I really like the 25mm look owning a 7Artisans 25mm.

I own the zeiss Jena tessar 50mm f2.8. Very nice character indeed. Though it's just slow for a 50mm. 

Heard good things about the 35mm f2.4, but whenever I get a medium/wide lens, I'm somewhat forced to get the equivalent brand 50mm. I've already owned the pancolar 50mm but find it a little saturated like Jena tessars and not as organic as the contax zeiss line. 

Never tried the Rollei Zeiss QBM Mount, wondering if they allow for infinity focus with EF Adapters or EF Mount. Cheers!

[Brian Williams]

Have there been any recent improvements with the live view? I haven't shot any ML raw in almost a year, but I check in to this forum every once in a while because I do miss it; I just couldn't get past how hard it was to focus with live view the way it was on the EOS-M.

[Anaconda_]

You can shoot 1080 raw in real time colour live view. Anything other than that is jerky and low res.  I can’t use it at all and only shoot 1080 with mine. It scales up pretty nicely though. 

[odie]

On 8/27/2019 at 12:28 AM, mercer said:

No, not without an external recorder. But with the experimental build and 14 Bit Lossless, file sizes are dramatically smaller without any loss in quality. Also if you use MLVFS file system for post, the files open up in Resolve without any transcoding to DNGs. The whole process is really quite simple now.

Honestly, all Zeiss lenses, I’ve tested, work great with ML Raw. I’ve tested Rollei Zeiss, Contax Zeiss and the ZF Classics.

Although, the newer ZF versions are a bit sharper, I prefer the West German made Rollei Zeiss. I find they have the perfect mix of sharpness, color separation and character with my 5D3.

Here’s a frame from the 50mm 1.8...

And here’s a frame from the 25mm 2.8...

Hey Mercer

 

thanks for the reply

 

I’ve been exporting pro res files to resolve using  Ilia’s app

 

is that right?

[mercer]

5 hours ago, odie said:

Hey Mercer

 

thanks for the reply

 

I’ve been exporting pro res files to resolve using  Ilia’s app

 

is that right?

I use the MLV App, if I quickly want to get my footage into FCPX but if I want to go through Resolve to FCPX, or use Resolve, I use MLVFS...

https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=13152.0

Basically, MLVFS is an on the fly CDNG converter. Resolve will recognize the .mlv files from your 5D3 as .cdng files so you can use the Raw Panel in Resolve and save a conversion step.

[Anaconda_]

I recently filmed a vacation video with my EOSm and enjoyed it, but now I'm home and I've noticed a whole load of banding all over my footage. I've never seen it in other things I've filmed with the camera, and I don't feel like I've pushed the grade any more than normal, and I'm having a hard time getting rid of it. In fact, you can see it in the ungraded screengrab!

I've attached some screen grabs to show you what I mean.

WORKFLOW:

1080p rewire 25p (I think 12bit)

Use MLVapp to do minor adjustment and convert to Arri Logc then export as ProRes. I also bring it up to 4k from MLVapp.

 

If it helps, here's my settings in MLVApp:

 

[Brian Williams]

On 8/29/2019 at 11:53 AM, Anaconda_ said:

You can shoot 1080 raw in real time colour live view. Anything other than that is jerky and low res.  I can’t use it at all and only shoot 1080 with mine. It scales up pretty nicely though. 

This is also properly scaled? Last time I used it it was either choppy/B&W (but properly scaled) or smooth/color (but cropped in, and not even center cropped at that). This has improved?

[Anaconda_]

9 hours ago, Brian Williams said:

This is also properly scaled? Last time I used it it was either choppy/B&W (but properly scaled) or smooth/color (but cropped in, and not even center cropped at that). This has improved?

1080 MCM Rewire is properly scaled, realtime in colour. Any higher resolutions have choppy B&W or cropped view on the LCD. For me, it's too difficult to use and trust the outcome.

Update to my banding issue above. In MLVApp, I switched from Arri Log-c to Film and that fixed my problem... I then used @ZEEK rec709 to Logc lut in MLVApp to convert it back to the log(ish) footage that I wanted in the first place. Thanks for the LUT!

[ZEEK]

Thought I'd share an EOS M RAW Video in 2.5K Mode with the Russian Cine Lens Vega 7-1 20mm F2:

EOS M 2.5K Raw B/W

2.5K ML RAW @ 2.35:1 [2520X1072] - No Letterbox added. 
ISO 100
23.976FPS
1/48
Lightly Graded in MLV APP, exported in a 4K Timeline [FCPX]

[Anaconda_]

hey @ZEEK - can you get realtime preview with correct framing at 2.5k?

I'm having a hard time getting it to work. I had it working a few days ago, then tried a few other settings and now can't get everything back in order haha. 

[ZEEK]

On 11/20/2019 at 5:51 AM, Anaconda_ said:

can you get realtime preview with correct framing at 2.5k? I'm having a hard time getting it to work

Not with realtime preview no. I can get correct framing but it will be a little laggy. 2.5K is in my opinion the best mode to use on the EOS M, I'll do a video about it, how to set it up, framing, and the other stuff very soon on YT. If it's not working for you, you can go into the ML Settings and reset ML Configuration to start fresh with ML Settings. 

[hmcindie]

Here's a little magical forest battle shot with the 5d mark III in raw, 1080p60 (1920x670 or whatever it is), upscaled to 4k.

 

 

[mercer]

So, after using the 14bit Lossless mode, on my 5D3, for the past 6 months I have decided to go back to the regular nightly build. At first I didn't think there was a loss in quality but after looking at older footage, I definitely see a slight loss in detail. It wouldn't be a huge deal except, for steady 2 year usage I never had one issue with the camera or FW. But since switching to the Lossless mode, I have had multiple freezes. And of course it happened on my best take the other day. 

Just wondering other people's experiences and throwing mine out there in case it is useful to anybody.

[plucas]

Never had Danne's build freeze while shooting but I did think that my 5Diii RAW (14 bit lossless) looked slightly less detailed than my EOS M footage - albeit the 5Diii eliminates aliasing.

I've never used the Nightly Build. What record setting did you use for it? (Full 14 bit RAW?)

[mercer]

13 hours ago, plucas said:

Never had Danne's build freeze while shooting but I did think that my 5Diii RAW (14 bit lossless) looked slightly less detailed than my EOS M footage - albeit the 5Diii eliminates aliasing.

I've never used the Nightly Build. What record setting did you use for it? (Full 14 bit RAW?)

Honestly, I don't follow the development pages too much. Occasionally, I'll check the downloads page to see if there is a new nightly build or a new experimental build, but since I'm in the middle of shooting my film, I don't want to risk anything and I don't have the time to experiment.

With that said, I really appreciate what Danne and a1ex are doing. ML Raw turned my mediocre skills into beautiful images... to me anyway.

And yes, I used the full 14bit raw with sound from the Nightly Builds page. I never had a single glitch and I am convinced there is more detail. The extra storage capacities of the 14bit Lossless was great but I cannot afford freezes or loss in detail. I am curious if I could use the regular full 14bit raw in the July 2018 experimental build and not have any issues, in case I ever want to shoot in crop rec mode for establishing shots.

I may test that in the future but right now, I'd rather have the stability of the nightly build. In fact, the original build I used was from April of 2017 and I swear the focus peaking worked better than the newer build, so I may just go back to that build.

[ZEEK]

On 1/1/2020 at 6:50 AM, mercer said:

And yes, I used the full 14bit raw with sound from the Nightly Builds page. I never had a single glitch and I am convinced there is more detail. The extra storage capacities of the 14bit Lossless was great but I cannot afford freezes or loss in detail. I am curious if I could use the regular full 14bit raw in the July 2018 experimental build and not have any issues, in case I ever want to shoot in crop rec mode for establishing shots.

Awesome Mercer! The 5D3 is such a great cam even in 2020! I have the 5D2 and the 14 bit raw amazes me still, especially with the Samyang Primes. 14 Bit RAW I also feel is better than the lossless. The lossless feels like a .png and 14 Bit feels like full raw with more colours to play around with and more detailed too, considering you're getting more bit rate mb/s. Some people can't tell the difference, but I can feel it when I grade and am sure you can too. 

[mercer]

13 minutes ago, ZEEK said:

Awesome Mercer! The 5D3 is such a great cam even in 2020! I have the 5D2 and the 14 bit raw amazes me still, especially with the Samyang Primes. 14 Bit RAW I also feel is better than the lossless. The lossless feels like a .png and 14 Bit feels like full raw with more colours to play around with and more detailed too, considering you're getting more bit rate mb/s. Some people can't tell the difference, but I can feel it when I grade and am sure you can too. 

It really is an amazing camera and although I sometimes think I need an upgrade, I really couldn't be happier. I have the 50mm 1.4 Samyang and for the money, I don't know if there is a nicer 50mm lens around. I think my next lens purchase will be the 24mm but I hear that lens suffers from copy variations so it may take a few tries to find a good copy. Which Samyang lenses do you have?

Also do you prefer the 5D2 more than the eos-m? A friend of mine recently bought an eos-m based on your videos. He left 4K and IBIS behind with the change.

[ZEEK]

5 hours ago, mercer said:

It really is an amazing camera and although I sometimes think I need an upgrade, I really couldn't be happier. I have the 50mm 1.4 Samyang and for the money, I don't know if there is a nicer 50mm lens  around. I think my next lens purchase will be the 24mm but I hear that lens suffers from copy variations so it may take a few tries to find a good copy. Which Samyang lenses do you have?

Also do you prefer the 5D2 more than the eos-m? A friend of mine recently bought an eos-m based on your videos. He left 4K and IBIS behind with the change.

Honestly, you don't need an upgrade, maybe just a 4K side camera to fill that need. I have the GH5 as a 4K sidekick, but I now appreciate the Magic Lantern cameras more. They're better for my main needs, the gh5 is just for backup 4K if I ever need it. 

I have had pretty much all. 12, 14, 24, 35, 50 & 85 (never owned the 135mm although it looks nice). Now I just own the 35 & 50mm. Both great companions to the 5Dii and extremely sharp. They grade like Hollywood lens ? The 24mm was very nice, but the 24mm and the 85mm just feel like speciality lenses to use in certain situations which is why I sold them as I don't use them often. For landscapes and closeups, they're perfect! Might consider the 85mm again.

I love both the 5D and the EOS M. The 5D is overall better with low light and dynamic range. The dynamic range gives the 5D2 a high end camera feel. Without an ND on a bright day, I'd have to stop the EOS M to about F22, with the 5D2 it's like F11. I love crop sensor cameras as well as the portability. The 5D2 I feel overall provides a more detailed and visually pleasing cinematic look. Really love it, won't give it away.

With dual iso, it has 14 stops of DR, just need to get the settings working. Pentax K lenses also go well with the Canon Full Frame if you file the back correctly. 

Here is the latest eos m film I did, not sure if you've seen it, but it's probably the best work in terms of colour I have pushed on the EOS m:

I use both the 5D2 & EOS M equally as much. 

[mercer]

9 hours ago, ZEEK said:

Honestly, you don't need an upgrade, maybe just a 4K side camera to fill that need. I have the GH5 as a 4K sidekick, but I now appreciate the Magic Lantern cameras more. They're better for my main needs, the gh5 is just for backup 4K if I ever need it. 

I have had pretty much all. 12, 14, 24, 35, 50 & 85 (never owned the 135mm although it looks nice). Now I just own the 35 & 50mm. Both great companions to the 5Dii and extremely sharp. They grade like Hollywood lens ? The 24mm was very nice, but the 24mm and the 85mm just feel like speciality lenses to use in certain situations which is why I sold them as I don't use them often. For landscapes and closeups, they're perfect! Might consider the 85mm again.

I love both the 5D and the EOS M. The 5D is overall better with low light and dynamic range. The dynamic range gives the 5D2 a high end camera feel. Without an ND on a bright day, I'd have to stop the EOS M to about F22, with the 5D2 it's like F11. I love crop sensor cameras as well as the portability. The 5D2 I feel overall provides a more detailed and visually pleasing cinematic look. Really love it, won't give it away.

With dual iso, it has 14 stops of DR, just need to get the settings working. Pentax K lenses also go well with the Canon Full Frame if you file the back correctly. 

Here is the latest eos m film I did, not sure if you've seen it, but it's probably the best work in terms of colour I have pushed on the EOS m:

I use both the 5D2 & EOS M equally as much. 

Haha, I don't think I even NEED a 4K side camera... I probably need to be happy with what I have, put my head down and get some work done. Lol. My friend bought a GH5 and I had a chance to mess around with it and I must say it's a fine camera. The IBIS and waveforms are enough to make it a very fun camera to shoot with.

Good to know about the Samyangs. I tend to shoot with one lens so maybe the 50mm is enough for me. But you're right about the sharpness. It has an interesting mix of modern sharpness and vintage creaminess. 

I used to have a few Pentax-M lenses and a couple SMC K versions... the original K lenses are interesting because most of them are identical to the Takumars with the new mount.

How does Dual ISO work? That feature has been around for a while but it was my understanding it's at the cost of extra noise... or something that made it impractical.

That eos-m video looks great... you really found the secret sauce with that camera. I just watched your Beach Vibes video as well... did you process and upres that in the MLV App or in Resolve? Whatever you did, it looks fantastic!!!

[ZEEK]

5 hours ago, mercer said:

I used to have a few Pentax-M lenses and a couple SMC K versions... the original K lenses are interesting because most of them are identical to the Takumars with the new mount.

How does Dual ISO work? That feature has been around for a while but it was my understanding it's at the cost of extra noise... or something that made it impractical.

That eos-m video looks great... you really found the secret sauce with that camera. I just watched your Beach Vibes video as well... did you process and upres that in the MLV App or in Resolve? Whatever you did, it looks fantastic!!!

yeah the Pentax M give a more modern looking image with a similar Takumar-like character, except for the yellowing effect  The Pentax-M 50mm f1.4 feels like the 8-Element Takumar as it's pin sharp @f1.4.

Dual ISO works fine with the EOS M @ISO 100/200, 100/400, & Potentially 100/800. You enable Dual ISO, record, and then place the video files into MLV App and then select the "Dual ISO" Enable Button which automatically corrects the exposure of the whole clip. Then you just tweak it from there. Aliasing can be a bit rough so you need to use anamorphic mode or x3 crop mode where zero aliasing is present. You get up to 13.2 stops of DR or around there. With the 5D2, Dual ISO doesn't work that well, I still need to play around with some settings, but you can get a crazy 14 Stops of DR. 

Thanks! It's the reason why I wont let go of the EOS M. Super easy to carry around and can produce nice footage. With the Beach Vibes Video, I did upscale that to 3840x2160 in MLV App which is the only platform I use to grade all my footage, then I export as Prores. Some say the ML Workflow is what puts them off, but it's super quick the way I do it. It takes me more time to get the colours and skin tone right on my GH5 to be honest. Cheers!!