Magic Lantern Raw Video

[Deadcode]

5 hours ago, kidzrevil said:

@Deadcode I rather you just say you don't like the look. Rec2020 or Rec709 has nothing to do with the appearance of the colors if nothing is clipping inside the color space.The only time you even see a visible benefit with Rec2020 is when the file is encoded in 10 bit color and displayed on a true rec2020 monitor. Color clipping is one thing but there is nothing clipping. On a technical level this complies to the tee with the standards of the color gamut and you can simply screenshot a still and watch it on your vectorscope. It sounds like you are saying you don't like the rendering of the color and that's fine but that's subjective. What do you define as a filmic look ? 

Anything from hyalinejim. This is the best example

Your earlier grades were better too.

I have been testing ACES workflow for HDR with 8 bit footage and the results are nice, but the banding is quite heavy of course.

[kidzrevil]

@Deadcode not every client wants that. If I used whatever LUT was used in the example video on a fashion client you’ll never be able to see the true colors of the clothes. The LUT will shift and compress all the hues to fit this color pallette. Point is with film there is an infinite amount of looks and aesthetics one can choose and market. If everyone wanted a muted color palette instagram’s filters wouldn’t be so widely used and abused. Idk why you keep mentioning HDR in this conversation but you seem excited about it so I would love to see your results

does this look more “filmic” to you

[squig]

11 hours ago, Deadcode said:

Im saying you can export to rec2020 from raw footage in davinci, and maybe with proper display these oversaturated neonish colors can look fine.

In rec709 it's simply unrealistic. I have rec709 display too. Everyone is using the 5D to get the most filmic look for cheap, this is not it.

Who made you the "filmic" police?

I like it. Filmic is anything that doesn't resemble video. @kidzrevil's work is some of the most filmic Magic Lantern stuff I've seen, and has me thinking I need to lift my game colorwise.

[kidzrevil]

Thank you ! And thats all I want to do is give people more options. We have millions of colors to choose from, why be locked i to the same looks you know ? @squig

[squig]

1 minute ago, kidzrevil said:

Thank you ! And thats all I want to do is give people more options. We have millions of colors to choose from, why be locked i to the same looks you know ? @squig

Yeah totally. Films shot on actual film can be cross-processed or have a tonne of other old school processes applied to them to get the look the filmmaker wants to tell their story, digital just gives us even more options to work with. 'The Road' would just look wrong over-saturated like 'City of God' and vice versa. A film can have a bunch of different looks in it to suit the narrative. The beauty of raw is it makes it a whole lot easier.

[kidzrevil]

52 minutes ago, squig said:

Yeah totally. Films shot on actual film can be cross-processed or have a tonne of other old school processes applied to them to get the look the filmmaker wants to tell their story, digital just gives us even more options to work with. 'The Road' would just look wrong over-saturated like 'City of God' and vice versa. A film can have a bunch of different looks in it to suit the narrative. The beauty of raw is it makes it a whole lot easier.

+1

I kinda wanted to express that with that grade. I wanted to show how thick you can make colors look without clipping with 14 bit color in addition to the LUT.

Davinci Resolve Tetrahedral interpolation makes LUTs even more accurate which is a neccessity with ML raw 14bit color. I then finished the grade in Adobe Premiere lumetri with simple adjustments and it really handled the nuance color well leaving nothing clipped

[kaylee]

@kidzrevil, i like your saturated flat look...! no idea what this has to do with hdr or rec 2020... i was actually thinking about you when i was using a polarizing filter to kill some reflections the other day, and i was wondering if youve ever used one to get some even deeper colors? ive always avoided them for fear of an unnatural look, lack of reflection/translucency with skin, etc, but the footage i shot for fun had a really great feel to it. might be cool to try ?

[Alpicat]

13 hours ago, capitanazo said:

so will never be able to record on non crop mode more resolution than 720p on the eos m?

Hard to say, depends on whether someone is willing to put in time and effort to enable 1080p non crop on the eosm. If you're interested and want to help out with the development, there's a discussion about this on the magic lantern forum: https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=16608.0

13 hours ago, capitanazo said:

and what about the 700d cant handle 1920x1080x24p 10bit on non crop mode with the uhs-i hack?

None of the digic 5 cameras can shoot 1920x1080 in non crop mode, I think only the 5D mk III can do that. Here's the magic lantern raw calculator which gives you info on the different camera resolutions: http://rawcalculator.bitballoon.com/calculator_desktop

 

 

[TwoScoops]

6 minutes ago, Alpicat said:

 

None of the digic 5 cameras can shoot 1920x1080 in non crop mode, I think only the 5D mk III can do that. Here's the magic lantern raw calculator which gives you info on the different camera resolutions: http://rawcalculator.bitballoon.com/calculator_desktop

 

 

 

How come 5D4 is on that calculator? 

[Alpicat]

@TwoScoops That's the write speed and resolution the 5D4 could achieve if it had magic lantern enabled, but it doesn't yet. Could be years before we see magic lantern on that camera.

[TwoScoops]

20 minutes ago, Alpicat said:

@TwoScoops That's the write speed and resolution the 5D4 could achieve if it had magic lantern enabled, but it doesn't yet. Could be years before we see magic lantern on that camera.

Figured as much. Thanks.

[kidzrevil]

@kaylee thank you ! I’ve used one to get deep colors in a landscape shot but I haven’t used it on skin ??? you should try it out you may be onto something !!!

[capitanazo]

8 hours ago, Alpicat said:

Hard to say, depends on whether someone is willing to put in time and effort to enable 1080p non crop on the eosm. If you're interested and want to help out with the development, there's a discussion about this on the magic lantern forum: https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=16608.0

None of the digic 5 cameras can shoot 1920x1080 in non crop mode, I think only the 5D mk III can do that. Here's the magic lantern raw calculator which gives you info on the different camera resolutions: http://rawcalculator.bitballoon.com/calculator_desktop

 

 

700d say it can shot up to 1728 without crop mode, so it will work well with the new uhs-i hack and a little of upscale?

[mercer]

Out of curiosity, how much and which of the post Raw specific controls do you use in Resolve or ACR? For the most part I have been just using them to correct WB, even though I rarely even have to do that. But I wasn’t sure if some people go all out and treat the clips like they would process a Raw photo?

Also, I’m finding that 9 out of 10 times my corrected clips end up looking damn close to the default Rec709 conversion in Resolve and the Footage App, does anyone forego the transfer to a Log Profile in post? I assume there’s a slight hit in DR possibilities processing them that way but if there is, it seems negligible.

[kaylee]

honestly i havent gotten into my processing options too deep yet. after i shoot my short that should be quite an adventure lol

[kidzrevil]

@mercer I use resolve to make all adjustments to the raw file before exporting in 12 bit individual files. Resolve debayers the raw files way better than acr. After you compress to prores or dnxhr you can edit freely in whatever nle you choose

[kye]

I have 700D with ML..  it's a decent setup!

On 13/05/2018 at 5:26 AM, capitanazo said:

and what about the 700d cant handle 1920x1080x24p 10bit on non crop mode with the uhs-i hack?

I believe the limitation of the 700D in non-crop-mode is 1728 because non-crop-mode takes every third pixel across the sensor and therefore runs out of pixels.  It's not a limitation on the SD card.

11 hours ago, capitanazo said:

700d say it can shot up to 1728 without crop mode, so it will work well with the new uhs-i hack and a little of upscale?

1728 RAW upscaled to 1080 isn't bad at all, but you'll need to play with the sharpening to keep a bit of detail.

I believe the low quality of the non-ML video from the 700D is the combination of 1728 upscaled to 1080 and then heavily compressed, making everything blurry.  With ML RAW in non-crop-mode you'll still face the same challenge as you'll likely be compressing the final output for delivery.

My card can't do 1728 continuously, so I've used 1600 for this video:

This was also a low light test (ISOs at up to 3200 / 6400 for some shots) so not the perfect conditions.  With 1728 you'll be able to do better in terms of sharpness and detail.

I'm looking forward to the SD card hack being stabilised and re-released so I can get higher resolutions!

[capitanazo]

i l

12 hours ago, kye said:

I have 700D with ML..  it's a decent setup!

I believe the limitation of the 700D in non-crop-mode is 1728 because non-crop-mode takes every third pixel across the sensor and therefore runs out of pixels.  It's not a limitation on the SD card.

1728 RAW upscaled to 1080 isn't bad at all, but you'll need to play with the sharpening to keep a bit of detail.

I believe the low quality of the non-ML video from the 700D is the combination of 1728 upscaled to 1080 and then heavily compressed, making everything blurry.  With ML RAW in non-crop-mode you'll still face the same challenge as you'll likely be compressing the final output for delivery.

My card can't do 1728 continuously, so I've used 1600 for this video:

This was also a low light test (ISOs at up to 3200 / 6400 for some shots) so not the perfect conditions.  With 1728 you'll be able to do better in terms of sharpness and detail.

I'm looking forward to the SD card hack being stabilised and re-released so I can get higher resolutions!

i liked your videoo a lot, its a extremly good quality for that iso.
hope soon will can use stable ml raw with sd hack, sound and 10-12 bit mode.

[mercer]

12 hours ago, kidzrevil said:

@mercer I use resolve to make all adjustments to the raw file before exporting in 12 bit individual files. Resolve debayers the raw files way better than acr. After you compress to prores or dnxhr you can edit freely in whatever nle you choose

I meant specific adjustments to the Raw Tab in Resolve... changing the numerical values for Vibrance or Shadow Detail or Midtone Detail.

For the most part I’ll do a rough trim of the clips, correct WB and maybe Saturation in the Camera Raw Tab before I export to ProRes for a final edit and grade in FCPX.

[kidzrevil]

@mercer oooooh the only thing I adjust  globally is sharpness -0 and I may add a touch to the color boost slider.  I adjust the exposure levels on a clip by clip basis, it works better with the raw files than using the lift,gamma,gain sometimes