Max bitrates and does the NX1 hack actually reduce macro blocking?

[Andrew Reid]

I am enjoying shooting 160MBit H.265 with the hack. What's the highest people have got out of it for continuous recording?

Can people summarise the best cards?

Also does it actually reduce macro blocking and banding over large low contrast areas of the image. So far in my experience it doesn't but I await to be proved wrong

Would like to see your tests and will feature the best on the front page blog.

[Parker]

I use one of the (apparently now discontinued) Lexar 2000x UHS-ii cards. I generally record 4k at 200 mbps and 60p and 120p at 180mbps. Keep in mind however that I am usually recording with the sound off, using manual focus, and at a low-ish ISO (I mostly shoot weddings so sound is not needed for the type of work I do). It is my understanding however that the higher the ISO or more processor-intensive tasks the camera is performing, such as autofocus, DIS, etc., the more likely you are to have your recording stop at those extra-high bitrates. If I do record sound or use autofocus, I usually do drop the bitrate to 160, just to be safe. 

As far as conclusive tests of solving macroblocking with the bitrate hack, if I recall, @kidzrevil posted a whole bunch of tests a while back, when the hack was first getting going, that showed off the results, especially in busy scenes with lots of detail and motion, like a fountain. They're probably buried somewhere in that massive original NX1 hack thread.

[kidzrevil]

Yeah @Parker is on the money, I would use the same Lexar card. As far as macroblocking goes the bitrate definitely helps with that big time. My nikkor 28mm f2.8  used to break the codec into a macroblocked mess on detailed shots until I used the hack @Andrew Reid

[tugela]

The higher bit rates do seem to help with macroblocking, especially in portions of images trailing objects in motion where you would typically see image breakup with the native bit rates.. It doesn't remove all of it of course, but the more bandwidth you have the better it should be since fewer compromises have to be made to fit the image into the available data.

[SMGJohn]

I remember that someone posted a post here showing the effects high bitrate had on macro blocking, personally I never experienced macro blocking anymore with 140mbps bitrate as its the most stable one with autofocus and everything on, if you turn off autofocus and sound you can push it to stupid levels like 220mbps is the highest I ever got before it gets unstable.

It speaks for itself, you probably remember the macro blocking issue before Samsung increased the bitrate through firmware update, I still got old footage with horrendous macro blocking before the first firmware rolled out. 

I shot a lot of 140mbps bitrate video on Crete when I was there last year, did not notice any macroblocking that would cause issues for me and this is with in-camera picture profiles, the last one I pushed saturation to 10 just to see how much the codec could handle, seem to have handled the colours just fine, skin colour is a disaster though when you start experimenting with the picture profiles.

NX1 & NX500 Calm – Type 801 - R1.00 G0.95 B1.00 | 3 Sat | -10 Sharp | -1 Contr | -6 Hue | 16-255

NX1 & NX500 Standard – Type 006 - R1.00 G0.95 B1.00 | 3 Sat | -10 Sharp | -1 Contr | 6 Hue | 0-255

NX1 & NX500 Standard – Type 005 - R1.00 G0.95 B1.00 | 10 Sat | -10 Sharp | 8 Contr | -3 Hue | 0-255

[Andrew Reid]

Cheers for the replies guys. I might have to get a faster card as my Lexar UHS-II 150MB/s doesn't seem to make 160Mbit/s reliable enough.

Is the NX1 card slot UHS-I or II?

[Parker]

UHS-II, for sure. With a really fast card like the Lexar (reads/writes at like 300 MB/s) the NX buffer clears in a flash, so pretty sweet if you're into spraying and praying at 15 fps stills, and it's also a dream to offload data at those blistering speeds, way better than any other card I have, which max out around 80 MB/s. 

[pryde]

I use the Lexar 2000x 300MB/s UHS-II and the Sandisk Extreme Pro 95 MB/s which also works just fine for me. Plus it's cheaper.

I generally shoot at 160 Mbit/s or 140 with audio and it is completely reliable. I'll leave it going for 30-40 minutes during wedding ceremonies.

I was having a lot of issues with macro blocking in shadows and backgrounds with uniform color with the standard bitrates, but the hack completely eliminated those problems for me.

The bitrate hack + Luca's NX-L redeemed the NX1 for me. I've been shooting it in tandem with the GH5 lately and the footage is actually matching pretty well for me.

[lucabutera]

Hi Andrew Reid@, I use the Sandisk Extreme Pro 280MB/s, I shoot 180Mbit/s with audio and 200Mbit/s without audio in 4k 24fps - FHD 50fps  - FHD 100fps. 

In my experience the best setting for kill the macro blocking is 4k DC 24fps, DR profile, Pro mode, 16-235, master black -10.

I use the NX/KS hack and third part lenses. 

Best

[Kisaha]

That master Black number has been all over the place. I can't confidently say how exactly it works, but I have it on +5.

Can someone explain more about it? What about the crushed blacks, are those 2 relevant?

Does anyone believe that recording on Black magic video assist 4K can brought better results?

@Andrew Reid and whoever can comment. I am been "bullied" by people I work with, to move to Sony for better compatibility between all our cameras and lenses (as I am the only one I know with NX!) for better workflow and post production. Honestly, what do you believe between these 2 cameras? Is Sony image so much better than NX?

I am using the NX1 with the 16-50S (and others) but a6300/6500 with 18-105 is seriously better in high iso situations, and people using A7sII/a6xxx cameras have stopped using lights whatsoever.

As it is, I will have to reconsider my options this winter.

[Marco Tecno]

For sure if you need high/very high iso, you should consider A7s (I or II). NX1 imo is the best hybrid (in general) but still has the "flaw" of high iso shooting in video, which is bad already at 3200 and no more than decent at 1600.

[lucabutera]

These days I wanted to test the maximum bitrates with hack NX/KS.
I've found that to get the maximum bitrates you need to turn off all the functions that require memory and cpu:
So if I turn off bluetooth, all the automatic functions, and close the display by going on EVF can go up to 220Mbit/s without interruption and up to 240Mbit/s for about a minute.
The benefit that is obtained is that the macroblochin is reduced in size, transforming itself from small squares into a noise-like grain.
What I think is that if the hack could turn off the display and the EVF being recorded, the NX1 could go over 250Mbit/s without any recording time limit.

[SMGJohn]

On 6.7.2017 at 0:49 AM, lucabutera said:

These days I wanted to test the maximum bitrates with hack NX/KS.
I've found that to get the maximum bitrates you need to turn off all the functions that require memory and cpu:
So if I turn off bluetooth, all the automatic functions, and close the display by going on EVF can go up to 220Mbit/s without interruption and up to 240Mbit/s for about a minute.
The benefit that is obtained is that the macroblochin is reduced in size, transforming itself from small squares into a noise-like grain.
What I think is that if the hack could turn off the display and the EVF being recorded, the NX1 could go over 250Mbit/s without any recording time limit.

Yes but having autofocus and stabilisation off is a big bummer when you use the camera for its mobility like me and do not have huge rails and tripods to work with. 
At best it will do 160mbps but its unstable, it could just be my card is too slow even though its a 2000x Lexar from 2016 300MB/s. 

It would be interesting if anyone could test an even faster card to see whether it is the ARM CPU being limited in its processing capability or if its truly the SD card being too slow to write the data to.

[lucabutera]

9 minutes ago, SMGJohn said:

Yes but having autofocus and stabilisation off is a big bummer when you use the camera for its mobility like me and do not have huge rails and tripods to work with. 
At best it will do 160mbps but its unstable, it could just be my card is too slow even though its a 2000x Lexar from 2016 300MB/s. 

It would be interesting if anyone could test an even faster card to see whether it is the ARM CPU being limited in its processing capability or if its truly the SD card being too slow to write the data to.

I think it is a processor data processing problem.
It's a pity not to have a working team like magic lantern on Samsung NX! ...

[SMGJohn]

29 minutes ago, lucabutera said:

I think it is a processor data processing problem.
It's a pity not to have a working team like magic lantern on Samsung NX! ...

I been humouring the idea whether we should start a fundraiser/kickstarter to get enough money to hire really good developers who could develop a new firmware for this camera. 

[Kisaha]

On 15/7/2017 at 8:33 PM, SMGJohn said:

I been humouring the idea whether we should start a fundraiser/kickstarter to get enough money to hire really good developers who could develop a new firmware for this camera. 

There were some really talented people working on it but I guess they reached a peak that is very difficult to overcome (Otto, KinoSeed, Vasile).

The final frontier would be the release of the firmware code, but no company is crazy enough to offer their expensive and copy protected code, to their antagonists, and I believe that Samsung offered almost everything this camera is capable of (DIS is better than Warp Stabilizer!). 

Raw would be just brilliant though, and a fricking "zoom in to focus" function while recording.

To fund professional developers, capable to do great stuff, is much more expensive -and time consuming - than you may think and/or believe.

[Marco Tecno]

I guess that with a lot of time/knowledge/money a (partial?) reverse engineering of the code could be done, but...I personally don't have none of those three.

[Caleb Genheimer]

So the Lexar cards are for sure the best? 

[Marco Tecno]

Yes at least for me

[Caleb Genheimer]

I installed it yesterday and all I have is Samsung Extreme Pro 95 cards. Pretty much as advertised, any settings over 95 hit the card write limit. A little strange, I recall using these very same cards for some pretty intense Driftwood settings back in my days of shooting on the Panasonic GH2, but whatever. You can imagine what cards still kicking around from back then must look like now, it's probably time for some new ones anyway.