Canon 6d mark 2 it´s official

[noone]

2 minutes ago, mercer said:

Haha, I was thinking about buying an A7ii. I am so yesterday with this stuff. I am holding out for the Canon FF mirrorless but may buy a D7500 in the fall for the right price as an interim. If the FF Canon mirrorless doesn't occur or isn't up to spec, I will probably sell the D7500 and put that money go back in time again and buy a 1DC. By next spring, they should be selling for around $2500 on the used market. And to be honest, 4 years later I don't think there's a better 4K image in that price range. 

While I sold my original A7 as it was more stills camera than I needed (and the A7s is fine for me as a stills camera), I would take the original A7 from 2013 over this new camera any day.

Yes this has dual pixel and a fully articulated touch screen but for me that is it.       EVF, head phone jack, 1/8000, 1/250 flash sync and lens adaptability and more all favour the A7 (let alone the A7ii) and the original can still be found at great prices now.

https://***URL removed***/products/compare/side-by-side?products=sony_a7&products=sony_a7_ii&products=canon_eos6d&products=canon_eos6dmkii

 

[Cinegain]

Basically the 5DmkII and 550D/T2i were happy accidents. Like, what really have they been doing since? DualPixel AF... that's about the only thing they have to show for. They're just milking that early success all they can. And to be honest, if I were a company and could get away with that... people still running to the stores to get one of my cameras, I probably as well would keep putting in minimum effort. Problem is that people are so invested into the system they have blinders on. Their customers are enabling Canon's behaviour. I'd say it's bad for the market in general.

[Andrew Reid]

Sony has clean 1080/120fps with no moire on the A99 II.

Canon can't even give us 1080/24p to match what Sony is doing at 120fps.

Their customers must just not care.

2 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

So there is one thread bashing pro video cameras and celebrating David Lynch.

And one where we bash the use of a 5D because of moire...

Im confused.

And to be honest, I love cheap cameras and being creative with lowend gear. For sure..

..But every time Michael Mann cuts from the film camera to some DV-cam in Public Enemies it totally rips me out of the story and makes me very aware that Im watching something fake. 

He loved it and said it made the movie better.. imo it made it suck ass.

There are times when the creativity of a DSLR can help you. And times when you should go all in.

A good story can handle a little moire (Hurt Locker slowmo scenes) and a weak story (Public Enemies) need all the help it can get.

Imo.

You shouldn't be confused, it's perfectly consistent. We want affordable, small, hybrid GH5-style cameras that do the most beautiful image possible for video purposes, with the minimum of effort and workarounds on our part.

Canon's customers have been asking for that for ages, so they gave us an XC10, which was basically a camcorder, showing that they seem to lack the understand of what we actually want, whereas Sony and Panasonic are providing it without drama, without issues, without massive, crippling expense.

Just about the best thing you can say about the 6D Mk II from an EOSHD perspective, is it would make a great Magic Lantern raw camera 3-5 years later, but there's no guarantee it will even happen.

[mercer]

I don't know are they really? I have seen maybe a dozen videos from the GH5 that look like they couldn't be shot with the G85. Your GH2 videos are better, or as good, as the best GH5 videos around. And let's be honest here... the ONLY reason Panasonic added 10bit to the GH5 is so they could add a LOG Profile that didn't have banding and magenta issues... they didn't give it to us just to be kind or to be ahead of the technical curve. If they did, the new EVA would have 10bit 60p in 4K or better than the 400mbps codec they're offering  

Now, I don't disagree about the 6D ii being bullshit but is it really a surprise?

The problem is there are no great $2000 cameras. $2000 for a micro 4/3 camera is kinda ridiculous. As much as I want an e-m1mkii, I could never pay that kind of money for a Micro 4/3 camera. I made that mistake last year with the XC10 and it's one inch sensor.

So, what else is there? A Sony that will overheat? What good are all these features if you can only shoot reliably with them in 30 degrees or less? I think we should continue to call Canon out on this bullshit but at least when they offer a feature... it works.

[Mattias Burling]

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

 Sony and Panasonic are providing it without drama, without issues, without massive, crippling expense.

Just about the best thing you can say about the 6D Mk II from an EOSHD perspective, is it would make a great Magic Lantern raw camera 3-5 years later, but there's no guarantee it will even happen.

I wouldn't call it without issues and drama. Plenty of that imo

No ML I think. The cameras that aren't hacked today like the 1DC etc is because they don't know how. Canon have better protection in them these days.

[OliKMIA]

17 hours ago, Eduardo Granadsztejn said:

Without 4k confirmed ..
It can be the future 90d? It's the only one left (for 4k)

Not even, Canon will only release proper 4k (ie not 1.74 crop..) when all the industry will be at 8k60, then we will have 4k24p with moire on Canon DSLR.

7 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

I understand what you mean, your point and why you are upset. But to many still photographers the above line simply isn't true.

What they got is,

• New 26.2-megapixel CMOS sensor
• DIGIC 7 image processor
• ISO 40,000 from 32,000
• Dual Pixel autofocusing system
• 45 cross-type autofocus points at its disposal, a step up from the 6D’s paltry 11.
• 6.5 frames per second, but there’s a short runway there: the maximum burst is 21 frames for RAW photos, and 150 for JPEGs.
• Touchscreen
• Swivel
• Weather resistant
• Wi-Fi, NFC, Bluetooth, and GPS radios.
• And Canon’s done all this while only adding a few grams to the original weight of the 6D.

I can name 5 pro photographers just among my closest friends that would choose a simple thing as weather sealing over 4K any day of the week.
This isn't the next video marvel. It never was. It never wanted to.
The 6D wasn't anything to write home about regarding video, so why would this?
Its like being upset about the lack of video features in a X100f or Leica M9.
Its not supposed to have that.

- New sensor, That the least they can do on a new $2k camera. Nice that they haven't used the one from the original 6D...

- Digic 7 and extended ISO range: what does it bring in real life ? Faster processor and then old UHS-1.  What is the real usable ISO ? Max ISO doesn't really matter 32 000 what not usable on the 6D anyway

- DPAF: again what's the point ? This is mainly a video feature and video quality is going to be poor

- 45 cross type AF: yeah that's nice actually but the original 6D was very bad on AF

- Touch screen and Swivel: nice but nothing revolutionary here neither. It's on many entry level camera

- Weather resistant: yes good point

- Wifi, NFC, bluetooth, GPS:  the wifi and GPS are already on the first 6D, a bluetooth and NFC chip is not very ground breaking, they cost a few dollars and many devices have that nowadays. Actually that would be more important to develop a real ecosytems around that because the current Canon App isn't exactly great. Hopefully the Wifi connection will be easier to setup on the mk2 because that's a huge un-user friendly mess on the 6Dmk1 (the GH5 app is even worst to be fair).

Sure the 6Dmk2 will be an ok camera but 5 years and $2000 for that ? The D750 come very close or better (dual slot) and was released 3 years ago. It's available at almost half the price brand new on ebay. Personally I love my 6D but I can't justify $2k for the mk2.

 

 

[Kubrickian]

Are you guys seeing the moire on the couch on this A99 II footage also? It's at 10 seconds in. 

 

[Andrew Reid]

8 minutes ago, OliKMIA said:

Not even, Canon will only release proper 4k (ie not 1.74 crop..) when all the industry will be at 8k60, then we will have 4k24p with moire on Canon DSLR.

- New sensor, That the least they can do on a new $2k camera. Nice that they haven't used the one from the original 6D...

PRAISE BE!! They were forced to.... They had to put Dual Pixel AF on board, because even the $500 SL2 has that now.

Quote

- Digic 7 and extended ISO range: what does it bring in real life ? Faster processor and then old UHS-1.  What is the real usable ISO ? Max ISO doesn't really matter 32 000 what not usable on the 6D anyway

No UHS II. No USB 3

USB 2? Let's party like it's 2004.

Quote

- DPAF: again what's the point ? This is mainly a video feature and video quality is going to be poor

Exactly. Why bother putting this on, so great for video, when you are "not targeting video users"

Quote

- 45 cross type AF: yeah that's nice actually but the original 6D was very bad on AF

It's so mediocre in this regard, but it's one of their biggest selling points in all the literature I've seen.

Quote

- Touch screen and Swivel: nice but nothing revolutionary here neither. It's on many entry level camera

Weather sealed and swivel screen... See impossible!!

Quote

- Weather resistant: yes good point

- Wifi, NFC, bluetooth, GPS:  the wifi and GPS are already on the first 6D, a bluetooth and NFC chip is not very ground breaking, they cost a few dollars and many devices have that nowadays. Actually that would be more important to develop a real ecosytems around that because the current Canon App isn't exactly great. Hopefully the Wifi connection will be easier to setup on the mk2 because that's a huge un-user friendly mess on the 6Dmk1 (the GH5 app is even worst to be fair).

Sure the 6Dmk2 will be an ok camera but 5 years and $2000 for that ? The D750 come very close or better (dual slot) and was released 3 years ago. It's available at almost half the price brand new on ebay. Personally I love my 6D but I can't justify $2k for the mk2.

$2000 is a lot for this, when you can get a 5D Mark III used for less.

3 minutes ago, Kubrickian said:

Are you guys seeing the moire on the couch on this A99 II footage also? It's at 10 seconds in. 

You're off topic.

The moire is from YouTube's downsampling for your browser / non 4K-screen, most likely. But at least moan about it in the right thread Kubrickhead.

[Emanuel]

55 minutes ago, mercer said:

I don't know are they really? I have seen maybe a dozen videos from the GH5 that look like they couldn't be shot with the G85. Your GH2 videos are better, or as good, as the best GH5 videos around. And let's be honest here... the ONLY reason Panasonic added 10bit to the GH5 is so they could add a LOG Profile that didn't have banding and magenta issues... they didn't give it to us just to be kind or to be ahead of the technical curve. (...)

C'mon Glenn... *Phew* You and we all know this is not true. Give a RED to a rookie and you'll see the damage. Your claim is totally BS to lightheartedly be posted in a forum among friends oh yeah, but don't hit the fan with, sorry mate :-) 

[mercer]

4 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

C'mon Glenn... *Phew* You and we all know this is not true. Give a RED to a rookie and you'll see the damage. Your claim is totally BS to lightheartedly be posted in a forum among friends oh yeah, but don't hit the fan with, sorry mate :-) 

Emmanuel I am dead serious. The best videos I have seen from the GH5 are from members of this forum. I've also seen a bunch of 10bit VLog footage that I believe could easily be accomplished with a G85 and a CineLike Profile. I had a G7 for a while and I loved it and I want all camera companies to make great cameras for us, but I just don't see all of this great footage from the GH5 that I expected to see.

Even Andrew said a few weeks ago that he doesn't love the camera that much and finds himself picking up the Olympus more often. However, I commend Panasonic for releasing such a groundbreaking camera and it is easily the camera of the year... maybe next year too and hopefully it will force Canon and other companies to start taking video seriously as they develop future cameras.

I truly think this 6D Mark II may get the backlash Canon needs to start some forward thinking when it comes to video. Hopefully the FF mirrorless will have the features we want.

But as is, if money isn't an issue, which for me $2000 is an issue, but if it wasn't, I would rather raise the extra money and get a 1DC or save money and just get a G85. I am hoping the Summer FW update will give the GH5 that extra bit I'm craving because I really love the 200mbps all-i 1080p I used with the FZ2500... at 10bit up to 60p... it should be great.

But in all honesty, why can't I get the high bitrate 1080p in the G85. Canon constantly gets bashed for withholding features but every single other company does the exact same thing... granted not to the same extent. 

[Emanuel]

7 minutes ago, mercer said:

Emmanuel I am dead serious. The best videos I have seen from the GH5 are from members of this forum. I've also seen a bunch of 10bit VLog footage that I believe could easily be accomplished with a G85 and a CineLike Profile. I had a G7 for a while and I loved it and I want all camera companies to make great cameras for us, but I just don't see all of this great footage from the GH5 that I expected to see.

Right. No miracles in hands of many... Be free to mark my words LOL :-)

BTW, IBIS per se is worthy of any camera upgrade ; ) To begin with... :P

Let alone 10-bit or 4K/60p for under 2000 bucks... Without mention 400Mbps or new AF firmware to come up in a couple of months :X

[ntblowz]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

I don't know are they really? I have seen maybe a dozen videos from the GH5 that look like they couldn't be shot with the G85. Your GH2 videos are better, or as good, as the best GH5 videos around. And let's be honest here... the ONLY reason Panasonic added 10bit to the GH5 is so they could add a LOG Profile that didn't have banding and magenta issues... they didn't give it to us just to be kind or to be ahead of the technical curve. If they did, the new EVA would have 10bit 60p in 4K or better than the 400mbps codec they're offering  

Now, I don't disagree about the 6D ii being bullshit but is it really a surprise?

The problem is there are no great $2000 cameras. $2000 for a micro 4/3 camera is kinda ridiculous. As much as I want an e-m1mkii, I could never pay that kind of money for a Micro 4/3 camera. I made that mistake last year with the XC10 and it's one inch sensor.

So, what else is there? A Sony that will overheat? What good are all these features if you can only shoot reliably with them in 30 degrees or less? I think we should continue to call Canon out on this bullshit but at least when they offer a feature... it works.

Just earn more money so you can buy all the gears you want, seriously, more action less whiny lol

 

can't wait for the C200 to be released.. looking forward to it

[BTM_Pix]

7 minutes ago, mercer said:

But in all honesty, why can't I get the high bitrate 1080p in the G85. Canon constantly gets bashed for withholding features but every single other company does the exact same thing... granted not to the same extent. 

Cinelike D being able to be switched on in their £250 travel compacts might have opened a few people's eyes to Panasonic playing a very similar game

 

[Andrew Reid]

Image is soft with moire!

Extremely soft on the wide angle landscape shots

Looks worse than 2012.

[mercer]

11 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Cinelike D being able to be switched on in their £250 travel compacts might have opened a few people's eyes to Panasonic playing a very similar game

 

What bothers me the most is why do I have to spend a thousand dollars for a Panasonic and I can't even reheat my burrito with it... why do they always hold back features?

[BTM_Pix]

15 minutes ago, mercer said:

What bothers me the most is why do I have to spend a thousand dollars for a Panasonic and I can't even reheat my burrito with it... why do they always hold back features?

Credit to Sony on that front. You can reheat frozen burritos with their cameras.

[jcs]

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

You're off topic.

The moire is from YouTube's downsampling for your browser / non 4K-screen, most likely. But at least moan about it in the right thread Kubrickhead.

The 1DX II has aliasing at 1080p, however for some things I like the soft-ish look and extra shallow DOF available at FF (not to mention the tiny files sizes!). The Sony A99 II is clearly aliasing in 4K on a 4K monitor. I haven't seen aliasing with the 1DX II in 4K yet, though I have seen aliasing on the C300 II in 4K! Very few cameras provide sufficient Bayer photosites to allow oversampling (2x per Nyquist sampling theory) to eliminate all aliasing (along with a tuned OLPF for a specific target resolution).

Camera manufacturers could have created a "perfect" camera many years ago, however that would ruin their upgrade path.

One manufacturer dared to create a superior camera before its time: Samsung and the NX1. After doing much research in 'how the world really works', I seriously doubt Samsung's reasons for dropping that camera were accurate. That said, balance is important, and it's best if there is good competition and many different companies be allowed to survive along with all the people they keep employed.

A lot of people think it would be great if we had free energy for all, right now. While that will be amazing for the planet, we'd need to ease into that, because the world economy is based on the petro-dollar, and anything that disrupts that dramatically would cause a worldwide crisis and chaos. Bitcoin and related cryptocurrencies are the next big disruptors, and are very close to being mainstream and trusted replacements for the petro-dollar. Once that transition is more established, then we'll start to see more clean energy technologies becoming available (some say government UFO/alien disclosure will happen then too, however I wouldn't hold your breath. Some people think Jupiter Rising is a documentary, hopefully that's not true, lol).

The ARRI Alexa/Amira series are as close to perfect for image quality that have been created so far, however these cameras are big, heavy, have huge power requirements, don't have any AF, and are priced for very specific markets (which can also afford a skilled AC to pull focus). So nearly perfect image quality doesn't make a perfect camera for everyone (Alexa Mini becomes big and heavy when fully rigged).

Regarding older cameras being better, the Canon 5D III IMO has better color science than the 1DX II, especially for video using the stock picture styles! This does create opportunities for folks to create and sell better ones (I'll release some for sale soon). 5D III RAW compares very favorably to the C300 II 12-bit RGB444. The 5D III has less DR, much more RS, more noise, no NDs, no XLR audio, and no AF, however it can still be used for quite a lot of types of shooting with fantastic results! In the budget market, the 5D3 and GH5 are really no excuse cameras. If AF is a primary need, the Canon 80D and Sony A7R II can work really well, especially if the target is only online streaming. In the midrange, the C200 is going to sell very, very well.

[wolf33d]

Some here can guess which year we will finally have a right camera? 
I mean, PROS from some manufacturers are CONS from others. Sony = poor ergonomics which is a Pro of Canon and vice versa and that goes for every pros and cons.
Since years I have been begging for 1 manufacturer to bring those Pros together. Truly Camera market is the most disappointing industry in the world.

Canon, give us a FF mirrorless with rotating multitouch screen + PDAF + EF Mount + usual colors and ergonomics + GH5 video specs and be done with it. 
No one on this planet having more than 2K to spare and interested in photo + video would buy anything else. Sony would be instantly dead. 
So what are you waiting ? 

[User]

14 hours ago, Timotheus said:

It just feels like pure calculation and/or cynicism. I don't like that. Now why would you make potential customers feel this way?

Hiroshima?

[Mattias Burling]

7 hours ago, OliKMIA said:

- New sensor, That the least they can do on a new $2k camera. Nice that they haven't used the one from the original 6D...

So why mope?
The X100 had the same sensor for three straight generations with not much complaint. GRii as well.
But the pro photographers using the 6D got a new one, I was just pointing out that it wasn't just a swivel screen

Quote

- Digic 7 and extended ISO range: what does it bring in real life ? Faster processor and then old UHS-1.  What is the real usable ISO ? Max ISO doesn't really matter 32 000 what not usable on the 6D anyway

Higher ISO means that the camera sensor is more sensitive to light. You can use that in whats called the exposure triangle, but you knew that.
That the 32 000 in the 6D was unusable is THE POINT of raising the ISO. If the max is 40 000 the 32 000 and everything bellow will be more usable than before.
And the pro photographers using the 6D got that, I was just pointing out that it wasn't just a swivel screen

Quote

- DPAF: again what's the point ? This is mainly a video feature and video quality is going to be poor

So why mope?
The pro photographers using the 6D got a new feature, I was just pointing out that it wasn't just a swivel screen

Quote

- 45 cross type AF: yeah that's nice actually but the original 6D was very bad on AF

So why mope?
You say the 6D was bad in AF, this does it better.
The sis something the pro photographers using the 6D is going to like, I was just pointing out that it wasn't just a swivel screen

Quote

- Touch screen and Swivel: nice but nothing revolutionary here neither. It's on many entry level camera

So why mope?
Since when did adding a GOOD feature become something bad and what should they have done instead?
Im not trying to be smart here, Im asking. Did you want two screens? Five EVFs? External screen? Whats the revolution?

At the end of the day the pro photographers using the 6D might like their new swivel screen
Lots of photographers hate scowl screens and would never buy one with it. So Panasonic fudged that imo, I would never buy the G80 or GH5 because they are fully articulating. Tilt or nothing for me.

Quote

- Weather resistant: yes good point

Yup

Quote

- Wifi, NFC, bluetooth, GPS:  the wifi and GPS are already on the first 6D, a bluetooth and NFC chip is not very ground breaking.

Read my answer to point number 5

Quote

Sure the 6Dmk2 will be an ok camera but 5 years and $2000 for that ? The D750 come very close or better (dual slot) and was released 3 years ago. It's available at almost half the price brand new on ebay. Personally I love my 6D but I can't justify $2k for the mk2.

Then the camera isn't meant for you. Simple as that.
Me neither. I own zero Canon cameras and won't buy this either. But Im not upset about it.
In the same way that Im not upset that OBH-Nordicas latest toaster can't repaint my house

Nikon vs Canon is a long and infected feud. I don't see any great numbers of pros switching from either side any time soon.

And the pro photographers using and enjoying the 6D got a new one, I was just pointing out that it wasn't just a swivel screen

7 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

No UHS II. No USB 3

USB 2? Let's party like it's 2004.

USB 3... what is this amateur hour? Cameras with Thunderbolt hit the scene 2012

USB1, 2 and 3 are the worst connections of any type of connection in history. 
And that not even the super futuristic companies like Panasony have switched to C-type is a joke. What where they thinking?????

I mean common Sony, its been two weeks and €1000 since the last camera. Get innovative for crying out loud.

And whats with the 4K in the GH5... Hello.. 4K is already in other cameras. Old news.
Don't they understand that they always have to be unique or we will piss all over them..
Time to wake up Panasonic. We don't want reliability or usable tools we want numbers on paper

Any who, I better stay of this topic. It seems rather infected and not ready for a lets say nuanced discussion with a broader than 4K perspective