Swapping the FS5 for a........ GH5?

[Oliver Daniel]

On 07/07/2017 at 11:48 AM, Inazuma said:

Please tell me what you think of the image  I'm going back into video work soon and am tossing up between and GH5 and A99 II. The GH5 + Metabones price comes up to similar to the A99 II. 

So far.... V-Log L is very nice. Bit harder than Slog2 to use, but that might be because I'm used to Sony's version. 

The Cine-D stuff seems robust, however I do prefer V-Log L as the dynamic range is too low for my tastes in Cine-D (it was a very bright, sunny day). That's only early impressions as I believe the Cine-D profile wasn't tweaked in camera.  

Can't give a solid answer on my opinion yet as so little footage to judge from. 

[Oliver Daniel]

On 07/07/2017 at 3:32 PM, Jonesy Jones said:

 

My decision making is more philosophical. Most manufacturers are not going to give us what we want at prices that make sense for most of us. What can Sony really give us with the FS5 ii that won't eat into FS7 territory? Every camera from those manufacturers is strategically handicapped. This is poor philosophy. They are not thinking about us. They are not thinking win/win. It's a failing strategy. And strangely this is one of the few industries where this happens. Most products are designed strictly with cost and physics in mind. What BM and ML have shown us is that camera manufacturers are intentionally holding back.  

You should probably just keep what you have if it's working for you. Personally I'm happy to not be in the Sony/Canon camp. 

Natural

I like the philosophy. 

I do think Sony do push much harder than Canon and bring some really innovative stuff to the table - like the FS5's elec-ND, the fact all their cameras have decent HFR, S-log and the fact their mirrorless range is seriously pushing it so quickly. 

I would expect the FS5 II to have a very similar body, with a better electric-ND, 4K 60p and something else like the A9 autofocus tech (to challenge Canon on their unique feature). 

Colour is also improving, so I think we will see an update to their ageing picture profile set. 

They do hold back some stuff, such as the 4K 8bit on the FS5. Nowhere near what Canon does. 

The C200 is almost ideal, so very close. They need that middle codec in there. Badly. 

Onto Panasonic - you gotta love these guys. They just put in everything, it's almost ridiculous. Awesome.

Overall, Sony really have something going and are due a next round of major releases. It might be worth waiting. They greatly improve with every release. Loads of smaller cameras here. 

Choosing now, I don't think you can go wrong with the GH5. It will always be an asset. Whether I'd favour that ahead of the FS5 is unconcluded. 

 

[bunk]

On 08/07/2017 at 6:23 PM, Fritz Pierre said:

Yes....extreme grade would be the understatement...

Here is te extreem curve used.

Be your own judge.

On 08/07/2017 at 6:24 PM, Jonesy Jones said:

Would be great if you could share your recipe.

I think the 400 mb/s codec is going to be interesting to see and could correct shortcomings. 400 mb/s is equivalent to Prores LT btw from a data rate standpoint. We'll see.

I don't have a real recipe. What I tend to do is set up some extreme curves to explore the picture as a whole. So literally the top point either to left or bottom direction and the bottom point to the right or up direction and that for each curve. That usually leads to a good first impression of the direction I want to go. After that it's just a choice of tools. On my desktop computer I work with Davinci. The picture you shared was graded on my MBP in ColorFinesse a plugin for AE. I use it as it is the only grading plugin that will work on my 2010 MBP ...it is slow but actually quite sophisticated for it's age. ...In the end basically all you need is curves and a way to set saturation.

The curves in the picture above tell you what I did with the tools available ColorFinesse. The waveform shows I crushed some of the lower levels and the histogram shows the new cloth of the emperor

It would really be cool if the 400mb/s is going to help out but I don't have high hopes.

[Oliver Daniel]

My latest (unfinished) video is like 80% A6500 and 20% the FS5. 

This is purely down to camera movement, there's a lot of it. Doing much more of this.

FS5 was used for more static angles and a few 200fps shots. 

An £8.5k camera package playing 2nd fiddle to a £1.5k camera with terrible battery life and rolling shutter. 

Madness? 

[Celli]

FS5 is like 827g body only camera? I think every argument for and against bigger cameras really come down to what you are shooting with it. I switched from Sony nex 5r to Ursa mini and for the life of me I would never go back to a dslr like form factor for my controlled narrative shooting. Specially for shots involving movement. Every inch of that movement is planned...with regards to the talent and background. Why would I want to wiggle around with a small cam, that just doesn't make sense. If you run and gun with your camera, and you never really know where you want to move beforehand.... sure grab a small cam or start lifting weights?

[Oliver Daniel]

1 hour ago, Celli said:

FS5 is like 827g body only camera? I think every argument for and against bigger cameras really come down to what you are shooting with it. I switched from Sony nex 5r to Ursa mini and for the life of me I would never go back to a dslr like form factor for my controlled narrative shooting. Specially for shots involving movement. Every inch of that movement is planned...with regards to the talent and background. Why would I want to wiggle around with a small cam, that just doesn't make sense. If you run and gun with your camera, and you never really know where you want to move beforehand.... sure grab a small cam or start lifting weights?

Thanks for the tips - but we're all different, shooting different things in different scenarios for different purposes and a different audience. 

On this most recent shoot, the A6500 + Zhiyun Crane was a huge, huge asset. 

The fact that you can now use tools like this instead of rigged up, expensive stuff and get professional level results (with operator skill) can't be underestimated. 

[jonpais]

On 7/5/2017 at 7:52 PM, DBounce said:

I have largely kept out of this one. But as I patiently wait for the Canon C200 my thoughts have also turned to the GH5. With the pending 400Mbps codec and 10bit, this camera looks to offer compelling features for a nice low price. I could easily snag two of these little beast and some lenses for the same money. But perhaps even more compelling is the mobility that the GH5 affords when striped down. 
Even my 1DXMkII becomes heavy in normal use. Granted it is worth the weight for stills, and I love the images I get from it. But for video I have to wonder if the GH5 is not the better of the two. 10bit makes a real difference. One that is apparent after editing some V-Log footage from the GH5. Those file can be pushed further than my 1DXMkII files. And we are talking less than a third the size. I am impressed with this camera. Also it would seem the GH5 represents the easiest path to anamorphic filming. Granted, most of the lenses I have seen that are "cough" affordable, look like garbage. I will give you that the Orion Series by Atlas looks pretty nice, but at $18k for the set... let's just say it's doable, but not without some thought. I guess the point is, I can see real benefits to the GH5. Frankly, save for lowlight performance, Panasonic have in many ways surpassed the competition. If Panasonic can get their act together with better AF (maybe int the new firmware?) they will be unstoppable. 

The Atlas Orion anamorphics are the first modern ones I've seen that appeal to me at all, and by that, I mean they blow me away. Like you said, not 100% unobtainable, but would definitely require a lot of mulling over. The sample footage over at their website is pretty darn impressive. But it's not only their price that's ginormous - these are hefty lenses with a weight of up to around six pounds and an outer diameter of 110mm. They make my Veydras look like freaking lens caps!

 

[Laurier]

I went from ursa mini 4.6k to A7r2 for similar reasons, But honestly get a a7r2 over a gh5 price wise it s quite similar,

You get better low light, full frame look if you want to ( with low rolling shutter) and very good auto-focus performances in video + it s a fantastic camera for stills.

Gh5 colors are worst than sony imo and dynamic range is so so .

[DBounce]

On 11/18/2017 at 2:41 PM, Laurier said:

I went from ursa mini 4.6k to A7r2 for similar reasons, But honestly get a a7r2 over a gh5 price wise it s quite similar,

You get better low light, full frame look if you want to ( with low rolling shutter) and very good auto-focus performances in video + it s a fantastic camera for stills.

Gh5 colors are worst than sony imo and dynamic range is so so .

Had the A7R2, it’s a great camera, but imo, the GH5 is the better of the two for video. The codecs hold up much better in post. Personally I was never wild about the lowlight performance of the Sony, I think the 1DXM2 is much more organic in this regards. The GH5 checks most of the buttons. But if stills are the main use, Sony > GH5. 

[JordanWright]

On 18/11/2017 at 7:41 PM, Laurier said:

Gh5 colors are worst than sony imo and dynamic range is so so .

Gotta disagree with you, I really like the Gh5 colours 

[ntblowz]

6 hours ago, JordanWright said:

Gotta disagree with you, I really like the Gh5 colours 

Agreed, while I do find A7rII have more solid colour than FS5 the GH5 is definitely better.  (had a7RII for 2 years)

 

Below one is on C500 on RAW to 7Q+ and one on GH5

 

[BenEricson]

9 minutes ago, ntblowz said:

Below one is on C500 on RAW to 7Q+ and one on GH5

The C500 is definitely nicer on the skin/highlights, but the GH5 looks pretty nice to me.

[Jonesy Jones]

1 hour ago, ntblowz said:

Below one is on C500 on RAW to 7Q+ and one on GH5

I like the skin of the lower more. I assume that's the C500.

[jonpais]

@Jonesy Jones I'm dying to know myself. =)

[anonim]

I'm dying just because Mercer couldn't shoot the same scene focusing on mr Pinky Cheek with his Canon 5m mk3 and show us in raw comparative result.

Besides that dying, both looks looks nice to me, both between-exchangeable with little grading/sharping effort.

[Laurier]

On 20/11/2017 at 3:59 PM, DBounce said:

Had the A7R2, it’s a great camera, but imo, the GH5 is the better of the two for video. The codecs hold up much better in post. Personally I was never wild about the lowlight performance of the Sony, I think the 1DXM2 is much more organic in this regards. The GH5 checks most of the buttons. But if stills are the main use, Sony > GH5. 

Yeah but the A7R2 have excellent auto-focus in video , I shoot a lot of fashion video/Mv and that a fantastic feature, It save me the cost of a 1st AD, beside I can shoot moving subject hand held with a 85mm 1.8 wide open in full frame,  and I love the look.

I had a GH4 as well, that was versatile but image quality was always disappointing for me.

Honestly I would rather go for a blackmagic micro + monitor if I was going for a smaller sensor /better codecs.

But I m not saying the GH5 is a bad camera,  it s just that price wise ... I would choose a a7r2

[PannySVHS]

 

@Laurier I think, that GH5 could well be the champ of DSLMs. For 1500 -1700 it is a heck of a deal. Video below was shot in REC709 mode and regular 8bit HD, 800 ISO with F-stop at 2.8 for light gathering and F4 for dof.

 

 

[Laurier]

25 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

 

@Laurier I think, that GH5 could well be the champ of DSLMs. For 1500 -1700 it is a heck of a deal. Video below was shot in REC709 mode and regular 8bit HD, 800 ISO with F-stop at 2.8 for light gathering and F4 for dof.

 

 

That A7R2 + batis 85 + 35mm 2.8, Slog-2 iso 800-1600, and literally hand held , I did not had all my equipment with me that day, but I usually have a  zacuto marauder and it s not as shaky.

[PannySVHS]

@Laurier, I like the grade and colors. But when it comes to less muted palettes Sonys 8bit cameras have not so pleasing colors. But good job on your video.

[jonpais]

@PannySVHS @Cinegain Shared a video shot with the A7s with some of the most muted colors I've seen, and while I'm not overly fond of the low contrast look for extended periods of time, I think the results are quite pleasing. I'm not at all familiar with Sony, but I think it's shot in 8 bit.