Rode NTG-2 vs. Schoeps CMIT5U

[jcs]

Like most people I always look for the best value, best bang for buck, etc. I purchased the Rode NTG-2 years ago when it first came out and it has provided good quality for a very reasonable price. Since it can work with a battery when phantom power isn't available, as is the case with DSLRs, it provides a very light, compact simple solution. On a recent outdoor shoot, I used the Rode NTG-2 and noticed how it picked up a lot of off-axis sound, and was generally noisy, which required a bit of audio post to sound decent:

We shot in the same location under similar conditions using the Schoeps CMIT5U, using a Zoom F4 to provide phantom power and also a preamp:

I didn't need to do any post work on the audio at all and the quality difference is substantial. With a preamp DSLRs can use high-end mics, and the 1DX II for example, can sound as good as the C300 II. The only issue is the Zoom F4 is big and heavy, so run & gun could use a much smaller and lighter preamp. Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Saramonic-SmartRig-Audio-Adapter-Smartphones/dp/B00WITIHZ6/ + this https://www.amazon.com/Rode-SC3-3-5mm-TRRS-Adaptor/dp/B00L6C8PNU/ (there are cheaper versions available) would keep things small and light with decent quality.

Shot run & gun style with mic on camera using my Filmic Skin picture style and very minimal grading. Canon 1DX II FF 1080p ALL-I (post sharpened) and Canon 24-105 F4L lens using DPAF (could squeak out a little more detail and shallower DOF with the 24-70 F2.8L II when using a tripod).

[Kisaha]

Mix Pre!!

Is the Schoeps better, or not!?!  

[jcs]

7 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Mix Pre!!

Is the Schoeps better, or not!?!  

Sounds Device rock for sure, especially the analog limiters! It's still a kinda heavy metal box (will be replacing the Zoom F4 with the Sound Devices Mixpre-6). If the Saramonic sounds decent enough, would work well for run & gun (no tripod). Might have to try it (if SD made such a device that would be amazing!).

The Schoeps + preamp is >10x the $ vs. Rode (a more fair test would be to use the Rode with the F4 and not on the battery). Just not having to do any post work is a huge time saver (let alone the quality difference!). 

[IronFilm]

Do you have any BTS pics of mic placement? As that is what matters the most when filming.

 

But yes, the NTG2 is a student grade mic (or for other non-sound specialists who just don't care about sound, such as cameramen. Which is where I use my NTG2 now, as an on camera mic when there is no other option for a scratch track. I should probably sell my NTG2 though, as I have plenty of other options for that).

At the absolute bare *bare* minimum, if you're aspiring to do this professionally and/or you just simply *care* about sound then get an Aputure Deity or Rode NTG3 as your shotgun for outdoors.

[Parker]

I got an NTG-2 on a sweet deal a couple years ago, and I was a little disappointed... until I ordered a Triton Audio Fethead -- 27db's of clean gain for $100-- and it turbo-boosted my NTG-2 to such a degree that I haven't felt the need to buy any higher-end shotguns since. Even with a lowly DR-40, combined with the fethead, the NTG-2 puts out a really hot signal, I can record dialogue around that -12db target at a gain of around 20 on the Tascam, compared to 80 or 90 without, avoiding all that crappy pre-amp noise. Good option for the budget minded, especially if you already have the rode.
http://tritonaudio.com/fethead.html

 

[IronFilm]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

At the absolute bare *bare* minimum, if you're aspiring to do this professionally and/or you just simply *care* about sound then get an Aputure Deity or Rode NTG3 as your shotgun for outdoors.

A little secret tip for the very frugally minded: if even an Aputure Deity is outside your price range, then grab yourself an Audio-Technica AT4073a from eBay. (Or maybe even the Audio-Technica AT4071a if you can handle the extra bulk of its longer lengrh)

As this was a very popular mic, an "industry standard" even. And a ***tonne*** of these were used by broadcasters for the Olympics (as AT was the Olympic sponsor) which ended up flooding the secondhand market and driving down prices. And unlike the other "industry standard" Sennheiser 416, the Audio-Technica AT4073a is nowhere near as famous, which has helped keep prices down even lower.

http://www.dslrfilmnoob.com/2012/03/27/gear-watch-audio-technica-at4073a-shotgun-mic/

 

I'd disagree with DSLRfilmnoob here, as if you're paying over two hundred bucks then you failed! As with patience it can be found even cheaper ;-)

 

I have one myself arriving in a few days, which I picked up for a mere song.

[jcs]

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Do you have any BTS pics of mic placement? As that is what matters the most when filming.

 

But yes, the NTG2 is a student grade mic (or for other non-sound specialists who just don't care about sound, such as cameramen. Which is where I use my NTG2 now, as an on camera mic when there is no other option for a scratch track. I should probably sell my NTG2 though, as I have plenty of other options for that).

At the absolute bare *bare* minimum, if you're aspiring to do this professionally and/or you just simply *care* about sound then get an Aputure Deity or Rode NTG3 as your shotgun for outdoors.

Simple mic-on-camera placement (in the studio all mics are boomed close to talent). In the outside shoot with the NTG-2 and CMIT5U, mic to mouth was about 4 feet. Primary noise source (street) was camera right (perpendicular, so best rejection possible (no sound behind camera, so no need to mic top down)).

RAW photo courtesy Canon 5D3, 24-105 F4L lens. 1DX II, Tiffen variable ND, Kamerar VF-4+ VF, Sony 7506 headphones, Mogami XLR cable, ancient Bogen 3001 tripod. That's what the 1DX II rigged up to be functionally equivalent to a C300 II looks like. Actually it does 4K60p and the C300 II can't (C300 II does 10-bit 422 4K and 12-bit RGB 444 2k and the 1DX II can't (8-bit 422 4K, and 8-bit 420 1080p)). Might sell the 1DX II when C200 is released. 5D3 still great for stills.

2 hours ago, Parker said:

I got an NTG-2 on a sweet deal a couple years ago, and I was a little disappointed... until I ordered a Triton Audio Fethead -- 27db's of clean gain for $100-- and it turbo-boosted my NTG-2 to such a degree that I haven't felt the need to buy any higher-end shotguns since. Even with a lowly DR-40, combined with the fethead, the NTG-2 puts out a really hot signal, I can record dialogue around that -12db target at a gain of around 20 on the Tascam, compared to 80 or 90 without, avoiding all that crappy pre-amp noise. Good option for the budget minded, especially if you already have the rode.
http://tritonaudio.com/fethead.html

 

Makes sense, part of what makes higher end mics sound better is the internal amp. Does the Fethead pass phantom power or do you need to run the NTG-2 on the battery?

Here's the NTG-2 used as a wireless mic (Sennhieser G3), and thus with a preamp into the camera (Schoeps needs phantom power so it can't be used this way): 

 

[jcs]

Here's the Aputure Deity vs. the Schoeps CMIT5U:

Curious how the Deity sounds next to the NTG-2 or NTG-3 in the same conditions, as it's quite thin and noisy compared to the CMIT5U in this test.

I'm also a fan of Audio Technica. For those needing a shotgun and stereo too, the AT BP4029 creates great mid-side stereo (allowing you to mix mono to ultra-wide stereo and anything in-between in post): https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/215893-REG/Audio_Technica_BP4029_BP4029_AT835ST_Stereo.html. While it's not the quietist mic, the quality and imaging is excellent, sometimes capturing audio that when played back on desktop monitor speakers makes me turn around during playback thinking the recorded sound is live in the room

 

[Parker]

@jcs depends on the model you get. They have a phantom version that will pass it through to the mic as well, but the gain boost you get is a little less because of it. I have the non-phantom/higher gain one, so I just use the ntg-2's battery (which surprisingly I've still never had to change, not once) and then my recorder's phantom power gives the fethead the juice it needs. 

[IronFilm]

3 hours ago, jcs said:

Simple mic-on-camera placement (in the studio all mics are boomed close to talent). In the outside shoot with the NTG-2 and CMIT5U, mic to mouth was about 4 feet. Primary noise source (street) was camera right (perpendicular, so best rejection possible (no sound behind camera, so no need to mic top down)).

 

Hmmmm....  well, oh, reckon you can't  make much of a conclusion when you're just comparing them mounted on the camera. As that isn't how they're meant to be used. 

Still, zero surprise the CMIT5U came out ahead of the NTG2! It is a $2.2K microphone! And I suspect almost noone else will be using it as a microphone on top of a DSLR.