Well done RED for trying something different with Hydrogen - but will the modularity make sense?

[Andrew Reid]

RED are set to release their first smartphone, Hydrogen, in 2018.

As things stand, this is the first ultra-premium device in a new market for phones, priced ahead of any of the current flagship smartphones. I think it's an area that is going to see explosive growth.

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[Hanriverprod]

If it was under a grand it would do well. As it is it's a monitor to a red camera that receives calls from the producer complaining about setup times

[Garug]

It is interesting, but not sure what it is

 

I really hope there would be HDMI and/or SDI to Smart phone adapter. That would get me long way, RED or not.

[Elias]

I'm pretty well versed on 3D technologies out there, and from the looks of it this seems like a completely different approach to imaging 3D/holographic content, so I'm *very* curious (jump to my last paragraph for possible explanations of what this tech is). One thing however where I can speculate is on how RED got a hold on this tech. I'm not too sure it was developed in-house, unless they have some sort of genius engineer in there who not only works on sensors and algorithms but also on moonshot projects. Most likely it was developed by someone outside who pitched the project to the company and they wisely bought into it and decided to bring it to market.

I gotta say that I can't wait to see what the trick is behind this holo-tech.

As for what this tech might be, here's some wild speculation (take it with a huge grain of salt): This tech could be finally what masters real digital holograms (i.e., the kind you see on credit card stickers) using real-time generated content with some sort of sophisticated laser system. This is something that has been demoed before but it has been slow and very computational-intensive. Another possibility is a different kind of lenticular-like system using very small electromechanical mirrors in a dense grid, which could increase the resolution tremendously over traditional lenticular systems and offer very good refresh rates and color qualities. Another possibility is a rotating mirror in a double-helix configuration (something I independently invented while in college) using lasers. Fingers crossed hoping that RED delivers on all the hype they are creating with this...

[fuzzynormal]

Not particularly interested for myself. 

However, I think it may have a market.  For instance, as a kid growing up near Detroit, I've always felt that car companies that are willing to create premium models of their product were ahead of the game.  You'd lust after a GT40 and admire it, knowing you'd never own it, but respecting the Ford brand because it could make something so bad-ass.

Besides, if cameras can have a enthusiast's marketplace, why not stuff like this?

[Django]

Interesting. Apple France is currently promoting here a film done by academy award winning director Michel Gondry, shot entirely on a iPhone 7 Plus..

https://www.apple.com/fr/detour/

[Michal Gajdoš]

Panasonic (and to some extent even samsung and sony) have at least tried. I remember holding CM1 from panasonic, at photokina 4 years ago (or 5 ?). they have not seen much success :(. I think @Andrew Reid reviewed the CM 1, with some decent photos http://www.eoshd.com/2014/11/panasonic-cm1-review-part-1-smartphone-first-impressions/ ... i don't think the phone was a big success though. I think it had limited screen size, stupid recording limitations (bugs with lens) but otherwise if they'd improve on that, i think they would have a good phone. it seems they dumped it in the trash and didn't improve it anymore. Let's see what this red is about. although price is steep.

[Andrew Reid]

It's all about the product.

If it's market leading, it'll sell.

Panasonic dipped their toe in the water with the CM1, it was overpriced and very mediocre as a phone vs the competition. Camera even had it's flaws too.

C- for effort, must try harder.

[Jimmy]

If you're using your phone as part of a cinema camera.... You're gonna need another phone for calls, internet etc anyway...

My concern with this holo phone is that RED seem to want to develop all the apps themselves or have not really thought out how people will make apps for it. I've asked several times on reduser about the coding environment it will use for apps, if development kits are going to be released before launch, etc... but it gets drowned out by posts of "goodbye apple, nice knowing you... go Jim!"

This kind of tech will live or die by the apps it runs... They need to figure this out quickly if they want app devs to take it seriously, especially with a Q1 2018 launch.

[jgharding]

Seems like it's a sort of "thought leader" product, in that they're heading for holographic and so on.

They have a bit of a market issue in that most Red owners are very protective of the notion of "professionalism" so they can't really make this into a "proper" cinema camera.

So for that reason I think you're right, it won't become a proper camera, as it were.

One interesting aspect of it is the inlusion of Red's proprietary formats. This sort of thing can backfire if the formats aren't open enough.

Sony were obsessed with controlling media, formats and so on and their history is littered with expensive failed experiments: ATRAC3 players (instead of MP3), UMD, Sony Memeory Stick, and so on... even the new wireless headphones I have include some proprietary codec support that only works with Sony phones, though at least that's not all they do.

So it's kinda interesting to watch, but if holographic does take off, the format with the low-fee or totally open license will win!

I also question the ability of any current battery to run this stuff for a long time.

[mkabi]

9 hours ago, Hanriverprod said:

If it was under a grand it would do well. As it is it's a monitor to a red camera that receives calls from the producer complaining about setup times

Have you looked at other RED stuff? Cheap is not within their vocabulary.

 

2 hours ago, Jimmy said:

If you're using your phone as part of a cinema camera.... You're gonna need another phone for calls, internet etc anyway...

My concern with this holo phone is that RED seem to want to develop all the apps themselves or have not really thought out how people will make apps for it. I've asked several times on reduser about the coding environment it will use for apps, if development kits are going to be released before launch, etc... but it gets drowned out by posts of "goodbye apple, nice knowing you... go Jim!"

This kind of tech will live or die by the apps it runs... They need to figure this out quickly if they want app devs to take it seriously, especially with a Q1 2018 launch.

Meh... he already said its an android phone... which means you can load other android apps.

If it were their own proprietary OS.... then I would be concerned, but then again... I'm not worried at all, because I'm not even interested... why is anyone interested????? Sure, RED are disrupting the cinema industry and now they've moved their sights to cell phones... but they don't even have a prototype to show us... I need some modicum of assurance with a real world example... not a picture and a half-arse spec. sheet.

[Jimmy]

1 hour ago, mkabi said:

Meh... he already said its an android phone... which means you can load other android apps.

Apps that use the holographic display will not be simple Android coding. Hopefully something like Unity... But at this point, no one knows.

Maybe save your "meh"s for a topic you understand?

[AaronChicago]

I know that Matt Workman has hinted at working in beta to develop a mobile version of Cine Designer for the Hydrogen.

[DPC]

If they get this right (and "right" for me would include ND filters, a stable pro filming app on Android, memory management that lets you easily get footage off the device) there's a huge market. Look at all the TV stations and newspapers using iPhones to make content now, for example....

 

9 hours ago, Django said:

Interesting. Apple France is currently promoting here a film done by academy award winning director Michel Gondry, shot entirely on a iPhone 7 Plus..

https://www.apple.com/fr/detour/

But have you seen how that iPhone was kitted out and the amount of people involved ?

[noone]

They will sell every one they can make and it will be back ordered for months.

Not for me, I will wait a few years and buy fourth version or more likely the "Metabones" speed booster version (or the cheaper Kipon smart phone/focal reducer version).

Sony will probably be onto the A99 smart phone by then (with A99R and S versions as well), Nikon will be making very nice FF smart phones (as the Panasonic phone optics division) and Canon will be on the DSLR 5D mk 7 holding 100% of DSLR market share.

[BTM_Pix]

I stil have no idea what its all about.

Some speculation on Reduser that the screen might be similar (if not actually based) on this.

Even if its not, its worth watching for the very cool intro tune, the older presenter's strange safari suit and the outright contempt he and the co-presenter appear to have for each other.

 

[Leica50mm]

I'd not worry about the apps.  With their cameras, they have opened it up to private developers . 

For instance, Fool Control . Which makes the cameras 100% easier

to operate and even works as wireless focus for canon lenses. It is amazing! 

[cantsin]

The Achilles heel of this phone will be Android, because it means that RED is putting itself at mercy of chipset providers and Google's OS updates. To give one example: Android 7.x no longer runs on Snapdragon 800/801 chipsets (used in many 2014 phones like the Samsung Galaxy J, Nexus 5 and Sony Z1). Even for its own high-end Pixel phones, Google only promises OS updates for two years. After that planned obsolescence, a phone basically turns into mobile security hole since an unpatched Android is prone to malware exploits. Even Fairphone, the only smartphone with a honest business model, got screwed by this because their hardware is based on Snapdragon 800; being stalled at Android 6.x, it still receives Google's security updates for that OS version, but will miss its goal of providing a long-life product.

RED normally sells high-end products that can be used many years. Now it will be forced to release a new phone every 2-3 years, or stay on a rapidly depreciating Android version with both its hardware and its apps. In the worst case, people could end up using the RED phone only for controlling their cameras/camera modules, plus some other Android phone as the "real" smartphone. Or RED plays along and releases a new phone every 2 years.

[Andrew Reid]

The holographic screens were on eBay at one point and now don't seem to be available anywhere, so maybe RED bought the company (Leia)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leia-3D-Holograma-pantalla-holografica-realidad-/141967275851?_ul=BO&nma=true&si=mM3h9QbtZR8JuvEDto7tgj3XE9E%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

[Caleb Genheimer]

This phone will live or die on the holographic tech. Let's be honest here. A decked out current iPhone plus model is near the $1K price point, so $500 extra isn't that much more, especially considering this thing looks like it's built like a tank in typical RED fashion. If the new display tech can do high quality, accurate displaying of pro content, PLUS it is holographic in a usable, non-gimmicky way? Sure it's worth an extra $500. On the flip side, if the display suffers poorer quality or clunky usability due to the tech not being practical? This thing is DOA.