My Thoughts Canon 1DXMK2 vs Panasonic Lumix GH5

[DBounce]

13 minutes ago, mat33 said:

If you have the 1DXMK2 and want a second small/light camera for one handed gimbal/travel etc then I would consider the XC10/15 -should match the 1DX well and if you need low light or shallow DOF just switch to the 1DX.

I think 1DXMK2 will be primarily for stills. It's not that it is not capable as a video camera... it's more that the GH5 is better suited for this job. The 1DXMK2 is an epic stills camera and my go to for high speed and sports. I think it is as far ahead of the GH5 for stills as the GH5 is ahead of it for video. Both are great, but focused differently. The 1DXMK2 does attract a lot of attention. Everyone keeps asking if you are a professional.

[mat33]

Makes sense, the 1dx is far to large for me, so downsizing to the GH5 + smaller lenses is definitely more travel friendly and low-key. I really like my XC10 and find it much easier to grade than my now sold GH4. I have even been considering getting a 80D for shallow DOF shots and stills or maybe even (gulp) a M6.

[DBounce]

7 hours ago, mat33 said:

Makes sense, the 1dx is far to large for me, so downsizing to the GH5 + smaller lenses is definitely more travel friendly and low-key. I really like my XC10 and find it much easier to grade than my now sold GH4. I have even been considering getting a 80D for shallow DOF shots and stills or maybe even (gulp) a M6.

If they made the XC10 with 10 bit 422 color, I think it would sell quite well. It's an interesting camera. I personally love the Canon colors. But as we all know, Canon seems committed to holding back just enough features to necessitate yet another camera from their line-up. Worst than the cost of doing this, is the weight penalty and hassle of needing to bring yet more gear. We have to commend Panasonic for not playing these games. I think outside of the former Samsung entrants, no other major player has been so forthcoming with making serious tools available at a reasonable price. 

I was committed to buying the C200, but the more I looked into it, the more I realized it would not be a practical option. I imagine it will be greeted with mediocre sales, as more serious buyers start crunching the numbers on what it will take to support the masses of data that it generates. 

For enthusiast the GH5 is a godsend. I think it safe to say there is a real place for the GH5 in the professional space also. I might get out with both and see how well the GH5 can compete with those glorious Canon colors. 

[Fritz Pierre]

8 hours ago, EthanAlexander said:

I guess I'm just confused why you are wanting to go with the GH5. You said it's because the footage is sharper, more grade-able, and "cinematic"... do these things only matter to you if the size is kept small? Genuinely interested, because to me small only matters for things like gimbals, but even then I don't really consider a 1DX large if I'm honest.

 

If you've never shot on a GH4 or 5, you cannot appreciate how the camera becomes an extension of your hand/arm...plus the ways you can customize the camera to suit your needs, are virtually unlimited...it you want a large Cine cam it goes on rails, cage and sticks...the modularity is fantastic....yet in the right hands, and especially with IBIS on theGH5, you can be on a street corner literally anywhere, and with what looks like no more than  a tourist camera and get footage that looks locked off and and can cut together with virtually any camera...another value of walking onto an airplane with a couple of light lenses, a 16" travel tripod and one or 2 GH5s in a small backpack  cannot be understated enough...I will get a second body soon....if you're curios about the camera...rent one for a week...don't go into a store and ho,d it and snap a couple of picks....this is no a camera for amateurs....it takes months to really master it, but when you do, the results, the operating experience, the ergonomics...it all becomes clear.

[EthanAlexander]

1 hour ago, Fritz Pierre said:

If you've never shot on a GH4 or 5, you cannot appreciate how the camera becomes an extension of your hand/arm...plus the ways you can customize the camera to suit your needs, are virtually unlimited...it you want a large Cine cam it goes on rails, cage and sticks...the modularity is fantastic....yet in the right hands, and especially with IBIS on theGH5, you can be on a street corner literally anywhere, and with what looks like no more than  a tourist camera and get footage that looks locked off and and can cut together with virtually any camera...another value of walking onto an airplane with a couple of light lenses, a 16" travel tripod and one or 2 GH5s in a small backpack  cannot be understated enough...I will get a second body soon....if you're curios about the camera...rent one for a week...don't go into a store and ho,d it and snap a couple of picks....this is no a camera for amateurs....it takes months to really master it, but when you do, the results, the operating experience, the ergonomics...it all becomes clear.

My question wasn't "why is it good?" I was interested in @DBounce 's opinion personally, based on his original post.

FWIW I make a living on video. It's not a side gig or something... Hopefully I'm not the one you're calling amateur

[Fritz Pierre]

5 hours ago, EthanAlexander said:

My question wasn't "why is it good?" I was interested in @DBounce 's opinion personally, based on his original post.

FWIW I make a living on video. It's not a side gig or something... Hopefully I'm not the one you're calling amateur

Not at all...if I included you in that category, why would you be asking questions about the GH5 if you owned one??

[jonpais]

My dream lens would be a 12-75mm f/2 zoom that had the build quality of the Noktons and the beautiful rendering of the Leica wide and the Olympus telephoto throughout the entire range. Or a set of four compact Sigma cine lenses built specifically for the micro 43 mount, like the Veydras. Or a Veydra anamorphic lens. Or practically any one of my Fujinon lenses with a micro 43 mount. 

[DBounce]

41 minutes ago, jonpais said:

My dream lens would be a 12-75mm f/2 zoom that had the build quality of the Noktons and the beautiful rendering of the Leica wide and the Olympus telephoto throughout the entire range. Or a set of four compact Sigma cine lenses built specifically for the micro 43 mount, like the Veydras. Or a Veydra anamorphic lens. Or practically any one of my Fujinon lenses with a micro 43 mount. 

I spoke to the folks at Veydra, and they told me the cost of producing an anamorphic that would meet their requirements was too high, and so they canned the project. I would have felt much better about dropping $3k on a Veydra anamorphic than an SLR Magic. But right now SLR Magic are really the only game in town for $3k and less.

[Django]

 

"Grading, I did not grade the Canon footage. I think the Canon footage is best colored in camera using a picture profile. I did however grade the bejesus out of the GH5 footage... and it did not break." 

"Here is my intermediate conclusion/not conclusion: The GH5 is going to surpass my 1DXMk2 for video. It captures sharper, more detailed and more gradable footage."

Curious, how do you reach to that conclusion, when you haven't tried grading the Canon footage?

From my experience, the 500mbps 422 MJPEG files are pretty damn gradable. GH5 may be 10-bit (vs 8)  but the extra file bitrate should narrow that gap.

As for the "sharper more detailed" well that's the optical low pass filter on the 1DX2 making 4K a tad softer, but I don't find that too problematic (gives less video feel)

Now of course GH5 has VLog and 1DXII doesn't, but there are a bunch of downloadable Canon log profiles out there.

Personally I'm warming up to the 5DIV now that's it got official C-log support. With the 18-35 Sigma the crop factor shouldn't be a problem either.

Biggest downside to the MJPEG codec is the file size. My maxed out 2017 MBP Touchbar struggles to even read the files. Meaning everything will need transcoding..

[wildrym]

- is gh5 ibis + metabones + canon glass stabilization superior to 1dxii + canon OIS lens stabilization? 

For instance, is the 100mm 2.8 macro L usable handheld on both cameras equally?

- Which camera seems to have the highest dynamic range? Does the custom "clog" really increase DR?

 

Thanks !

 

 

 

 

[Dimitris Stasinos]

45 minutes ago, wildrym said:

- is gh5 ibis + metabones + canon glass stabilization superior to 1dxii + canon OIS lens stabilization? 

For instance, is the 100mm 2.8 macro L usable handheld on both cameras equally?

- Which camera seems to have the highest dynamic range? Does the custom "clog" really increase DR?

 

Thanks !

 

 

 

 

Gh5's IBIS is definitely superior. But IS is totally usable in any Canon lens it has been incorporated, including telephoto & macro lens. As for DR, i have not used 1dx ii but i guess you can pull 1-2 usable stops more than GH5, but this is kinda objective. In a controlled environment, using v-log and exposing properly, i think you can gain back those 2 stops.

[gt3rs]

19 hours ago, Django said:

Biggest downside to the MJPEG codec is the file size. My maxed out 2017 MBP Touchbar struggles to even read the files. Meaning everything will need transcoding..

Hi Django, did you try using Resolve, because if you have the 15'' 4 core MBP it should work fine.

On Windows on similar/same CPU 7700HQ I have no problem playing back with resolve and media player classic. It works great even at 4k 60p 1DxII. Mine has a better GPU but for only playback it should not matter, grading could be limited but if you have the 4GB Vram version it should work ok...:

 

[Django]

4 hours ago, gt3rs said:

Hi Django, did you try using Resolve, because if you have the 15'' 4 core MBP it should work fine.

On Windows on similar/same CPU 7700HQ I have no problem playing back with resolve and media player classic. It works great even at 4k 60p 1DxII. Mine has a better GPU but for only playback it should not matter, grading could be limited but if you have the 4GB Vram version it should work ok...:

 

Got a maxed out 13" MBP..  but zero problem reading 4K codecs from Fuji, Sony, BMD etc. Only MJPG causes severe drop outs. Less so when editing, I'm talking just playback using preview or quicktime.

[gt3rs]

Just now, Django said:

Got a maxed out 13" MBP..  but zero problem reading 4K codecs from Fuji, Sony, BMD etc. Only MJPG causes severe drop outs. Less so when editing, I'm talking just playback using preview or quicktime.

Ok all clear now. The 13 MBP has a 2 core i5 and is probably not powerful enough for decoding in real-time MJPG. The h264 is HW decoding optimized (for playback) on most CPUs so even an Atom based cpu can playback 4k 25p in real-time. My i5 surface pro 3 can playback 4k 30p h264 with no issue at all. Editing is another story where h264 lgop are a pain. New Resolve Studio (paid version) has HW decoding for h264 but only on windows and only with nvdia cards. 
I would try still Resolve (free version) beta 14, it faster than 12.5 and it may work. On various 4 core i7 notebook that I have tested is very fast with MJPG file both real-time playback at 60p and scrubbing.

[DBounce]

On 7/30/2017 at 8:33 AM, Django said:

 

"Grading, I did not grade the Canon footage. I think the Canon footage is best colored in camera using a picture profile. I did however grade the bejesus out of the GH5 footage... and it did not break." 

"Here is my intermediate conclusion/not conclusion: The GH5 is going to surpass my 1DXMk2 for video. It captures sharper, more detailed and more gradable footage."

Curious, how do you reach to that conclusion, when you haven't tried grading the Canon footage?

From my experience, the 500mbps 422 MJPEG files are pretty damn gradable. GH5 may be 10-bit (vs 8)  but the extra file bitrate should narrow that gap.

As for the "sharper more detailed" well that's the optical low pass filter on the 1DX2 making 4K a tad softer, but I don't find that too problematic (gives less video feel)

Now of course GH5 has VLog and 1DXII doesn't, but there are a bunch of downloadable Canon log profiles out there.

Personally I'm warming up to the 5DIV now that's it got official C-log support. With the 18-35 Sigma the crop factor shouldn't be a problem either.

Biggest downside to the MJPEG codec is the file size. My maxed out 2017 MBP Touchbar struggles to even read the files. Meaning everything will need transcoding..

The Canon colors are great out of camera, but the pseudo flat profiles can disappointing in post. For this reason I often opt to capture as near as possible to final grade baked in. The GH5 is far more flexible in post. Codec size is a challenge in some regards, but if you work with proxy files in PP or FCPX it is not that bad. Lowlight is far better on the 1DXMK2. Organic and forgiving upto 12800 in a pinch. Contrast this to the 1600 iso useable range on the GH5. Detail is better on the GH5, but that is not to say that the 1DXMk2 has bad IQ... It has great IQ, but as a filmmaker's tool, it falls short for lacking many features that are expected in such an application. All the GH5 lacks is DPAF and lowlight. 

[Django]

5 hours ago, gt3rs said:

Ok all clear now. The 13 MBP has a 2 core i5 and is probably not powerful enough for decoding in real-time MJPG. The h264 is HW decoding optimized (for playback) on most CPUs so even an Atom based cpu can playback 4k 25p in real-time. My i5 surface pro 3 can playback 4k 30p h264 with no issue at all. Editing is another story where h264 lgop are a pain. New Resolve Studio (paid version) has HW decoding for h264 but only on windows and only with nvdia cards. 
I would try still Resolve (free version) beta 14, it faster than 12.5 and it may work. On various 4 core i7 notebook that I have tested is very fast with MJPG file both real-time playback at 60p and scrubbing.

Actually maxed out 13 MBP's use 7th gen dual core i7's.. far from quad core but still I've been pretty surprised at what it can handle.. except MJPG. 

I use Resolve beta 14 for transcoding & grading. I usually hire a video editor for paid jobs so mostly I just want to review footage.. try some graded looks etc..

Sadly MJPG is a no go for me on my $2900 2017 notebook setup..

4 hours ago, DBounce said:

The Canon colors are great out of camera, but the pseudo flat profiles can disappointing in post. For this reason I often opt to capture as near as possible to final grade baked in. The GH5 is far more flexible in post. Codec size is a challenge in some regards, but if you work with proxy files in PP or FCPX it is not that bad. Lowlight is far better on the 1DXMK2. Organic and forgiving upto 12800 in a pinch. Contrast this to the 1600 iso useable range on the GH5. Detail is better on the GH5, but that is not to say that the 1DXMk2 has bad IQ... It has great IQ, but as a filmmaker's tool, it falls short for lacking many features that are expected in such an application. All the GH5 lacks is DPAF and lowlight. 

to be honest with you unless you're primarily a still action / sport photographer.. I kinda fail to see the point in investing in a 1DX2. At that price point there are so many better video cam options out there. Even the 5D4, now with log support & HDR video at half the price.. and of course Sony, BlackMagic... GH5.. meh 2.2x crop is just too severe for my taste.. poor lowlight.. AF.. and sucky at stills. I do get it's a godsend to some types of shooters thanks to 10-bit 422 in DSLR form factor but yeah it's on the other side of the spectrum of the 1DX2 that's for sure!

[Fritz Pierre]

3 hours ago, Django said:

Actually maxed out 13 MBP's use 7th gen dual core i7's.. far from quad core but still I've been pretty surprised at what it can handle.. except MJPG. 

I use Resolve beta 14 for transcoding & grading. I usually hire a video editor for paid jobs so mostly I just want to review footage.. try some graded looks etc..

Sadly MJPG is a no go for me on my $2900 2017 notebook setup..

to be honest with you unless you're primarily a still action / sport photographer.. I kinda fail to see the point in investing in a 1DX2. At that price point there are so many better video cam options out there. Even the 5D4, now with log support & HDR video at half the price.. and of course Sony, BlackMagic... GH5.. meh 2.2x crop is just too severe for my taste.. poor lowlight.. AF.. and sucky at stills. I do get it's a godsend to some types of shooters thanks to 10-bit 422 in DSLR form factor but yeah it's on the other side of the spectrum of the 1DX2 that's for sure!

The GH5 does not have poor lowlight performance at all!...lol...have you shot with one?

[Django]

There are dozens of videos online showcasing GH5's low light / high iso performances. 

.. wether it's good/poor depends on what you are comparing it to I guess. compared to GH3/GH4 it's fantastic. Compared to FF Sony/Canon.. not so good.

[jonpais]

13 hours ago, Django said:

Actually maxed out 13 MBP's use 7th gen dual core i7's.. far from quad core but still I've been pretty surprised at what it can handle.. except MJPG. 

I use Resolve beta 14 for transcoding & grading. I usually hire a video editor for paid jobs so mostly I just want to review footage.. try some graded looks etc..

Sadly MJPG is a no go for me on my $2900 2017 notebook setup..

to be honest with you unless you're primarily a still action / sport photographer.. I kinda fail to see the point in investing in a 1DX2. At that price point there are so many better video cam options out there. Even the 5D4, now with log support & HDR video at half the price.. and of course Sony, BlackMagic... GH5.. meh 2.2x crop is just too severe for my taste.. poor lowlight.. AF.. and sucky at stills. I do get it's a godsend to some types of shooters thanks to 10-bit 422 in DSLR form factor but yeah it's on the other side of the spectrum of the 1DX2 that's for sure!

I was under the impression that 4K was a straight 2X crop, not 2.2. Am I mistaken?

[ade towell]

yes it's 2x crop, not too far from 5d mk4 with its 1.7x crop that Django seems to recommend...at least the gh5 has lenses suited to its crop