Best cheap extras for starter camera, best techniques to master

[Liam]

For now just know all of your options, study up on what's possible, and why some people choose certain options, don't invest yet. Use your camera very bare bones for the time being until you know you can use it this way, but you see exactly how something you can afford would be helpful. A pro can use just a camera and a lens. For instance, a variable nd makes sense, but the good ones cost money, and it can be another thing to fidget with, and make the image worse, and I very rarely want to change exposure within a shot.

Maybe do mainly photography at leat at times - much easier to manage in almost every way than video, and your camera is better at photos than video.

Obsess over it a little

And yeah, learn more from the real pros than from youtube gear heads

Good luck

[jonpais]

DSLR Video Shooter has lots of good info about gear, particularly for the budget-minded. Most recently, Caleb compared 9 different monitors under $200. I stopped watching Dave Dugdale ages ago myself. You can pick up something like the Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8 quite inexpensively, and when used with a focal reducer, it can still give you a 16mm full frame equivalent field of view or thereabouts. I still prefer native lenses, though. Several Olympus lenses have the manual clutch mechanism, including the overpriced 25mm f/1.2, but it's still fly by wire AFAIK.

[cantsin]

This YouTube tutorial really covers all you need:

 

[meanwhile]

1 hour ago, Liam said:

For now just know all of your options, study up on what's possible, and why some people choose certain options, don't invest yet. Use your camera very bare bones for the time being until you know you can use it this way, but you see exactly how something you can afford would be helpful. A pro can use just a camera and a lens. For instance, a variable nd makes sense, but the good ones cost money

That's an excellent point. Otoh, m43 filters are small, which will keep the cost down. And I've had positive experiences with cheapish Zomei filters in the past.

Otoh again, I'm in the NW UK, so blocking out light is the least of my problems...

 

1 hour ago, jonpais said:

DSLR Video Shooter has lots of good info about gear, particularly for the budget-minded. Most recently, Caleb compared 9 different monitors under $200. I stopped watching Dave Dugdale ages ago myself. You can pick up something like the Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8 quite inexpensively, and when used with a focal reducer, it can still give you a 16mm full frame equivalent field of view or thereabouts. I still prefer native lenses, though. Several Olympus lenses have the manual clutch mechanism, including the overpriced 25mm f/1.2, but it's still fly by wire AFAIK.

Thanks - very useful again.

..I've read some of your posts; we should talk about ETTR some time. I'm historically an ETTRer myself, but since picking up a Sigma Merrill as my main stills camera I've become aware of http://www.13thmonkey.org/~boris/photos/Foveon2/foveon-highlights.html Merrill shots have a uniquely filmic quality because they avoid highlight spill - but ETTR with a Bayer should maximize it. So now I'm shooting a Bayer again, I'm going to experiment and see if I should be more cautious.

Re. the Oly, I got the impression that the mechanism gives repeatable focus in way other m43 lenses don't... Wait:

https://suggestionofmotion.com/blog/panasonic-12-35mm-vs-olympus-12-40mm/

the Olympus 12-40mm f/2.8 has a special clutched focus ring that provides linear focus control and hard stops (i.e. the focus ring stops turning when it reaches either end of the focus range). Compared to most native lenses, this means that the Olympus will focus to the exact same points when you turn the focus ring from point A to point B, regardless of how quickly you turn the ring.

 

47 minutes ago, cantsin said:

This YouTube tutorial really covers all you need:

 

I was willing to settle for something less ambitious than getting filmic files at this stage... But the first 30 seconds were so funny and charming I'd now watch it even without your recommendation. (Does anyone else get a Rocky & Bullwinkle flavour from this?)

[mercer]

If you're looking for a cheap, but decent Variable ND, I highly recommend the Bower brand, they are very neutral with color casts and they have hard stops at both ends. Well worth 30 bucks for a beginner fader ND.

[meanwhile]

Thanks, Mercer.

Are there any more zooms like the Tokina I should consider? A linear focus in the typical kit zoom range would be great - something like a 17-55mm.

[mercer]

31 minutes ago, meanwhile said:

Thanks, Mercer.

Are there any more zooms like the Tokina I should consider? A linear focus in the typical kit zoom range would be great - something like a 17-55mm.

If you don't mind vintage, Pentax and Minolta both made 24-50mm zoom that are pretty good, but they're slow at a constant f/4. I have an old Tokina 24-40mm f/2.8 I like a lot. 

[meanwhile]

And the D4Darius video was entertaining but not really useful. It was mostly either high level "values" stuff I can take care of myself or impractical advice like re-wallpapering the rooms I'll be shooting in. He also said to always use manual focus but didn't give advice on what lenses to buy or on techniques - and the next video I watched was a Parker Wallbeck where he shot a wedding to Godfather standards and used nothing but AF...

[mercer]

15 hours ago, meanwhile said:

59 minutes ago, meanwhile said:

And the D4Darius video was entertaining but not really useful. It was mostly either high level "values" stuff I can take care of myself or impractical advice like re-wallpapering the rooms I'll be shooting in. He also said to always use manual focus but didn't give advice on what lenses to buy or on techniques - and the next video I watched was a Parker Wallbeck where he shot a wedding to Godfather standards and used nothing but AF...

Actually rewallpapering rooms is a great tip for the no budget filmmaker, but maybe not what you're looking for right now. Also I wouldn't dismiss Fuzzy's recommendation of going out and shooting. Of course, read as much as you can, watch as many videos as you can, but most importantly go out and shoot. Take one lens, be it the kit, or the Panny 20mm or your Tak and go out and shoot stuff. If you're interested in narrative, write a one minute short film, think about how to tell the story visually with little to no dialogue. Or take a song you like and make a music video for it. Or if you're interested in street shooting, go out into the streets and shoot. It's no different than photography... find your subject and think about composition and story. You have a great little camera that can have CineLikeD now thanks to BTM's discovery, so upload it, go out with your lens and a variable ND and shoot something. If you want material to read and watch, go check out Noam Kroll's site and go back 50 or a hundred pages of this forum and read as much as you can. But then during the day, find the best locations around you, when there is good natural light, and go out and shoot. 

[cantsin]

4 hours ago, meanwhile said:

and the next video I watched was a Parker Wallbeck where he shot a wedding to Godfather standards and used nothing but AF...

There's only one camera brand with which this is possible (unless you use small-chip camcorders) - Canon, because of its dual pixel AF technology. But since Canon's consumer DSLRs now lag ten years behind everyone else in image quality and don't even produce a good HD image, your only choice for this type of filmmaking would be to buy into Canon's expensive Cinema EOS line.

[PannySVHS]

20 hours ago, mercer said:

If you don't mind vintage, Pentax and Minolta both made 24-50mm zoom that are pretty good, but they're slow at a constant f/4. I have an old Tokina 24-40mm f/2.8 I like a lot. 

@meanwhile with GX85, manual focus is the best. AF does not compare to the AF beasts for video.

Mercer also owns a Tokina 25-50 F4, which is my favorite lens for handheld shooting and manual focussing

without focussing gear. Couple this bargain lens with a cheap focal reducer and you have a nice lens with 2.8 light gathering and S35 cinema standard image and

exellent ergos for manual handheld shooting. Add a small cage later on, once you can find one for cheap. I got a "Rolleiflex 4K" cage for around 40USD. Usually they

range around 200 bucks.

Another favorite of mine is the Canon FD 28mm F2.8 in combination with a cheap focal reducer, bargain quality lens. Maybe still my number one.

The EVF on the GX85 is not nice on the shooters eyes, so one would depend on the LCD.

Shoot that little guy in 4K, because the HD is not as nice as it used to be with the Panasonic Lumix cams.

[meanwhile]

8 hours ago, mercer said:

Also I wouldn't dismiss Fuzzy's recommendation of going out and shooting

I would. I really don't need someone to tell me that. The stuff I want is the boring but non-obvious that takes hours to learn by experimentation but a minute if you find the right information. In video, both 180 rules are good examples. And the information I've picked up about trying to manual focus my AF stills lenses.

 

5 hours ago, cantsin said:

There's only one camera brand with which this is possible (unless you use small-chip camcorders) - Canon, because of its dual pixel AF technology. But since Canon's consumer DSLRs now lag ten years behind everyone else in image quality and don't even produce a good HD image, your only choice for this type of filmmaking would be to buy into Canon's expensive Cinema EOS line.

Oh, Japan - why dost thous provoke my desire but refuse it's fulfilment? This is Season 2 of PASWG all over again...

 

However, I can see at least two ways around this that I want to try

1. Just shoot with cuts that don't need changes in focus; limiting, but it must work and I don't have to buy extra lenses

2. Shoot with dof to spare, use back button focus and a dfd lens and keep hitting the back button - it won't be perfect but it might keep me happy for now

..I had stills shoots set up for today and more tomorrow, so I probably won't be able to play with this until next week. Now to work out how to get my cat to cooperate...

 

[PannySVHS]

15 hours ago, meanwhile said:

I would. I really don't need someone to tell me that. The stuff I want is the boring but non-obvious that takes hours to learn by experimentation but a minute if you find the right information. In video, both 180 rules are good examples. And the information I've picked up about trying to manual focus my AF stills lenses.

 

Oh, Japan - why dost thous provoke my desire but refuse it's fulfilment? This is Season 2 of PASWG all over again...

 

However, I can see at least two ways around this that I want to try

1. Just shoot with cuts that don't need changes in focus; limiting, but it must work and I don't have to buy extra lenses

2. Shoot with dof to spare, use back button focus and a dfd lens and keep hitting the back button - it won't be perfect but it might keep me happy for now

..I had stills shoots set up for today and more tomorrow, so I probably won't be able to play with this until next week. Now to work out how to get my cat to cooperate...

 

 

Now you have all the things on the table to rock your GX85. You have shown readers of the forum a nice deal of your own knowledge.

Is the GX85 your first DSLR/DSLM for shooting video? If so, great camera to start with!

 

[meanwhile]

9 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

 

Now you have all the things on the table to rock your GX85. You have shown readers of the forum a nice deal of your own knowledge.

Is the GX85 your first DSLR/DSLM for shooting video? If so, great camera to start with!

 

Actually, the thing I appreciate most is that thanks to the time people have taken with me here that I realise how ignorant I was! Focus especially is an area where I would wasted ages doing the wrong thing. Now I can jump a stage where I might have wasted days, then, if I decide the limitations of my stills lenses are too great then I know exactly what lenses to buy. And instead of wasting time trying to make sense of different light reviews and then maybe buying the wrong ones, thanks to jonpais I know which reviewer to look at. (And I've already learned from that reviewer that Apurture are an especially safe bet for good CRI cheaply, which is my first priority.)

So now I can go out and shoot without wasting time. Except - no joke - it is pouring down outside...

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

On 26/07/2017 at 10:50 AM, meanwhile said:

On the subject of cheap but workable gear, is there a good alternative to the zacuto magnifiers? preferably something that still allows me to use the screens ability to tilt?

 

In this one, I can help you: https://kamerar.com/collections/lcd-viewfinders/products/magview-lcd-view-finder

Bought one of these for my GX85 and it worked wonderfully. Don't remember the correct ratio for the screen, I think that it was 4:3. 
More than blocking the sun light, the best advantage is to have one more stabilizing point for the camera - your face. With it and IBIS, handheld steady shots beacame rock steady, even with prime lenses. And the viewed image is much larger, much better than use the EVF or the LCD alone.

I have this one too, https://kamerar.com/collections/lcd-viewfinders/products/qv-1-m-lcd-view-finder, but is only better if you plan to add some serious rigging (like follow focus), and you could have some issues with the camera height relatively to the mounting plate (did not tested this model with the GX85, only with my GX7, but I remember having some troubles with the LX100).

Only problem with these is fogging (it winter here now), but I'm sure there is an easy solution .

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

I was almost opening a very similar thread, but I think that I could jump in the bus in this one (if @meanwhile approves) - get a lot of good info already.

My case is very like meanwhile's one - albeit I've experimenting for some time before now. But now I have a incoming trip - London, Barcelona and some Portugal cities in september / october), and I wish to make some travel videos with a little bit better quality. Since I will go with my girlfriend, time consuming setups are out - my idea is to buy a Crane-M in London (than I could bypass a tripod for panning and slider-like shots), and use the 12-32mm or the 14-42mm with a VariND for daylight shots, and the 14mm 2.5 and the 20mm 1.7 for indoor shots. Probably will use the GX85 for stills too, planning to get Xume magnetic adapters to fast removal of the variND filter.

My questions are somewhat overlapping with the @meanwhile ones, but I will ask them again (pardon for the repeats):

- White balance: since we don't have raw, I guess that it is good advice to set the wb manually. The best practice is set the camera in the profile that you will use and set the wb with a gray card, and set again if the lighting changes? Any other procedure needed?

- Profiles: liked the Cinelike-D in the GX85 (best hack ever), but it is the best profile for every situation? I guess that I will have 5 scenarios in this trip: daylight landscapes, daylight city streets, indoors (churches, castles, etc), night landscapes and night citty streets.
      a) I suppose that Cinelike-D is good for the daylight ones, the additional DR is useful to balance the skies and the scenery (mostly buildings). But I saw lots of complaints with it in other cameras reagrding two aspects: noise in the shadows and skin tones - how are your experiences with it? And I'm not versed in grading techniques - no problem in learn that, but I don't know wht is the learning curve...
     b) For the indoors and night scenes, Cinelike-D is adequate, or the shadow noise becomes a problem?
     c) If Cinelike-D is not recommended for me (because of use cases / noobism  / complicated post processing), which profile and settings do you recommend?
     d) For Cinelike-D and / or other profiles, how is the base ISO and exposure recommended method? ISO 200 and ETTR?
     e) Shot a color card (X-Rite or something) is each lighting situation is useful?

- Slow motion: would like to make some shots in 1080p60 for slowmo; I know that the GX85's 1080p is somewhat bad, but it is usable? If not, someone tried 4k downscaled + Twixtor or something similar)? And if I put this 1080p60 in a 24fps timeline, will there be some cadence problems?

Sorry for the long reply, and thanks in advance for your answers.

[meanwhile]

1 hour ago, Márcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

- Profiles: liked the Cinelike-D 

Those are really interesting questions, but need a thread that will attract people with knowledge of Cinelike-D and camera profiles. So maybe they need a thread titled something like "Cinelike-D: When shouldn't I use it?" Because that title will attract the C-D experts? And then link it here, so people finding this thread in the future can get that info easily?

Thanks for the magnifier suggestion, btw!

I thought I'd some more resources here for people finding this by google

 

 

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

1 hour ago, meanwhile said:

Those are really interesting questions, but need a thread that will attract people with knowledge of Cinelike-D and camera profiles. So maybe they need a thread titled something like "Cinelike-D: When shouldn't I use it?" Because that title will attract the C-D experts? And then link it here, so people finding this thread in the future can get that info easily?

Good idea, will open a new thread.

[meanwhile]

 

 

[meanwhile]

Excellent discussion of exposure for video

http://www.leeminglutone.com/#usage

More on audio

https://www.premiumbeat.com/blog/record-indie-filmmaking-audio/