Best cheap extras for starter camera, best techniques to master

[howard]

"LOL" I guess I wasn't the only one feeling like what several have mentioned when I was reading this thread.

[Gregormannschaft]

Tip #1: Be grateful to anyone who gives you their time and advice. People help you get somewhere in this industry, not gear or good technique.

[meanwhile]

16 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

 

If anyone does want to work on their blocking ability, I recommend Akira Kurosawa's work - it gave us Seven Samurai and Stray Dog, so you can't deny it has scope..

 

It seems with your approach in dealing with this topic and its arguments, you have named your best personal advises yourself by drawing

conclusions from the flaws you see in the arguments of others.

No. I've found the answers to the questions I asked useful.

What I've found un-useful is the suggestion that I should try to learn how to pull focus by making a film instead of before making a film, so I can make the film competently without wasting collaborators' time.  Anything I can practice without wasting an actor's time, I will practice without wasting an actor's time. To me this seems like common sense and good manners; I have no idea why some people object to this. 

Also, I appreciate the importance of writing, I just don't especially need to practice it, don't have time to practice it - you can only write so much in a day and I have a thousand words to do today - and when I want to improve my writing then I go to much better sources than Some Guy On Youtube Who Happens To Own A Video Camera. (As well as Egri I'd recommend Samuel Delaney's collection of essays. Although as far as I know he's never made a youtube video.)

I agree Kurosawa is excellent on blocking - although I'd argue that Imaishi is more interesting because he's learned to take Kurosawa's blocking and run faster with it. But blocking isn't really relevant to the question I asked, which is how best to adapt my stills technique with a camera to video - it's a much higher level activity that I'll worry about once I have exposure in the groove, steady pull shots, etc.

 

 

[Liam]

I think you want a blog to post on, not a forum.

Still good luck though

[PannySVHS]

 

9 hours ago, meanwhile said:

No. I've found the answers to the questions I asked useful.

Useful in ways beyond the specific topics of your questions? You took some opportunities to express your dissatisfaction about some aspects of answers you´ve been given.

 

 

9 hours ago, meanwhile said:

Also, I appreciate the importance of writing, I just don't especially need to practice it, don't have time to practice it -

You let us know about the persons, who we could learn a great deal about writing from, just one day ago.

 

 

9 hours ago, meanwhile said:

I agree Kurosawa is excellent on blocking - although I'd argue that Imaishi is more interesting because he's learned to take Kurosawa's blocking and run faster with it. But blocking isn't really relevant to the question I asked, which is how best to adapt my stills technique with a camera to video - it's a much higher level activity that I'll worry about once I have exposure in the groove, steady pull shots, etc.

I named him for these exellent blocking skills.

I did that as a direct and immediate reply to that advise of yours about your greatest personal idols in the writing field.

I wouldnt argue, that Imaishi is more interesting. Blocking is really relevant to the question you asked.

Blocking directly affects the amount of your stills technique that you can apply to video.

With certain blocking like out of Kurosawas arsenal you will not have to worry about steady pull shots.

 

[meanwhile]

9 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

 

I wouldnt argue, that Imaishi is more interesting. Blocking is really relevant to the question you asked.

Blocking directly affects the amount of your stills technique that you can apply to video.

With certain blocking like out of Kurosawas arsenal you will not have to worry about steady pull shots.

 

It's impossible to argue (sanely) that Kurosawa isn't excellent. But it's interesting that he comes up so much more that, say, Kubrick or Godard. And also that while he is widely referenced I don't see any signs of people actually absorbing him as influence. But, as Crow T Robot said, I digress:

The point is that I wouldn't and didn't ask about blocking here because it's easy to find incredible books, articles and examples. The stuff I asked about is material I can't seem to get from books - how to work with very small consumer cameras like the GX80. Being told to look at a video about writing and blocking instead doesn't really help me with that.

An example of the sort of thing I'm wondering about is how to pull focus when shooting handheld or even whether I should. My guess after pulling over 500 shots is that it can work reasonably well with a focusing lever and something like a chest brace. But it would be nice to know instead of told to learn to focus by re-making Ran. 

[PannySVHS]

 

1 hour ago, meanwhile said:

The stuff I asked about is material I can't seem to get from books - how to work with very small consumer cameras like the GX80. Being told to look at a video about writing and blocking instead doesn't really help me with that.

 

I am not sure if it´s practical to describe manual techniques like handheld focussing. It might be easier to show.

A stronger grip to the GX85 is necessary for ambitious handheld filming and focussing, to be found in a camera cage.

@jonpais is using the same cage as I am. They are pricey. Good thing, I got mine for 40 USD. You might want to look for this one or a similar one.

I attach rubber bands to the cage and the other end to the shoulder belts of a backpack, I put then one hand under the lens´ focus ring,

with the other on the handgrip of the cage.

 

You state about the usefulness of our answers and at the same time deny it. That is one of a few contradictions I read in your posts.

You can support the people you ask by asking them specific questions. If necessary to you, you would follow up with a specific and friendly reply,

how your question could be answered more to your satisfaction. That way it is easier to fullfill your interested and interesting and friendly request.

 

Brandon Lis is an avid handheld DSLM shooter. Watching him is fullfilling one of many

learning strategy besides the kind of answer I was giving above.

Only certain shooting styles allow for handheld manual focussing. So it can make sense to watch material of capable handheld shooters in order to see if

it could even be possible to achieve certain styles as a one man band camera operator and focus puller.

Techniques like deep focus, Kurosawas blocking style and Brandon Lis approach would allow for that.

That´s what some answers reflect on, which you have been given in this thread.

 

 

[meanwhile]

19 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

 

 

I am not sure if it´s practical to describe manual techniques like handheld focussing. It might be easier to show.

A stronger grip to the GX85 is necessary for ambitious handheld filming and focussing, to be found in a camera cage.

@jonpais is using the same cage as I am. They are pricey. Good thing, I got mine for 40 USD. You might want to look for this one or a similar one.

I attach rubber bands to the cage and the other end to the shoulder belts of a backpack, I put then one hand under the lens´ focus ring,

with the other on the handgrip of the cage.

 

That's useful, thanks. I think I've got around the need for a cage with sugru. Re rubber bands, I'm using a shoulder strap as a stabilizer and I thinking of running another strap or elastic via a fitting in the tripod thread. But now I think I can see how to convert an SV1000 folding rig into a very decent chest support, so I'll try that.

As for being friendly - really, I have been. But when people repeatedly mis-state what you've said, and insist on telling you to do things you've politely declined, being brisk is reasonable. 

[PannySVHS]

Just now, meanwhile said:

That's useful, thanks. I think I've got around the need for a cage with sugru. Re rubber bands, I'm using a shoulder strap as a stabilizer and I thinking of running another strap or elastic via a fitting in the tripod thread. But now I think I can see how to convert an SV1000 folding rig into a very decent chest support, so I'll try that.

As for being friendly - really, I have been. But when people repeatedly mis-state what you've said, and insist on telling you to do things you've politely declined, being brisk is reasonable. 

 

Did you find the folding rig on EOSHD? I did in one of the posts a few days ago. Looks cool. Keep us posted, if you have time and a chance to.

I think there was no reason for being brisk. Answers have been given and been reflected and with interesting content. Mission accomplished.

Now next missions ahead: More joyful camera action and asking questions and staying friendly.

I am out of this thread now. As it feels adequate to me for a fresh and new start. cheers

 

[meanwhile]

23 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

 

 

I think there was no reason for being brisk

You weren't the person being mis-quoted or ranted at...

But if you want to improve the ergonomics of a GX80 for video without the bulk of cage, then grab a 5 pack of sugru. Use 4.5 packs to make a handgrip in the obvious place and the remainder to add a bulge just above the ae lock button. This should protrude several mm above the top plate and be shaped to accept your thumb without hot spotting - I found a convex curve was best. Let this set for 24 hours and tweak with a scalpel: you can now apply a full fist grip with maximum thumb and finger power.

...You want the thumb rest to be very slightly angled so that a thumb squeeze is aligned to the centre of the palm. So the left side of the thumb rest, viewed from the rear, should be very slightly lower.

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

On 30/07/2017 at 9:59 AM, meanwhile said:

Great discussion on cheap diy follow focus set-ups http://www.theblackandblue.com/2010/09/30/toolkit-diy-cheap-follow-focus-solutions/  The Truedeau silicone jar opener looks perfect for this job - and it seems a lot of people use them this way.

 

 

I have it, and did not liked it too much. Bought this one in eBay after and to my taste is much better: https://varavon.com/collections/accessories/products/sling-follow-focus?variant=858184235

(albeit I have not used it from a long time - kind of got the grips with focusing manually, since I take a lot of stills in concerts in MF or vintage lenses)

About the grip, just wish that Panasonic (or someone) make some external grips like Olympus does... but found something interesting in Varavon's page that I was not aware: https://varavon.com/collections/rod-accesories/products/eng-grip-b-type?variant=860241427. It's an ENG grip to use with rods, but looks like that is the same grip that they use in some of their cages, the rod part is fixed with two screws that I suppose that could be attached to a cage  / L bracket.

[meanwhile]

3 hours ago, Márcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

About the grip, just wish that Panasonic (or someone) make some external grips like Olympus does... but found something interesting in Varavon's page that I was not aware: https://varavon.com/collections/rod-accesories/products/eng-grip-b-type?variant=860241427. It's an ENG grip to use with rods, but looks like that is the same grip that they use in some of their cages, the rod part is fixed with two screws that I suppose that could be attached to a cage  / L bracket.

Google "sugru camera grip".

Thanks for the varavon suggestion; I'll probably buy one tomorrow.

[meanwhile]

And, again for anyone finding this thread in the future, probably the sanest option if you do want manual focus while experimenting with video is something like this C-mount lens

These lenses are designed to cover a APSC sensor, so m43 is no problem. One of these, a vintage 50mm, and a use copy of one of the better wide angle converters will give the full frame equivalent of 35, 50 and 100mm for the less than the cost of a lens Turbo. More -

https://medium.com/@adam.zivner/review-of-zonlai-25mm-f-1-8-e4ccbac76a1

There also seem to be options  for using c-mount lens for smaller sensor sizes by cropping, including the Electronic Teleconverter function, even if that does sound a counter intuitive way of getting a wide angle shot.

[meanwhile]

There seem to be at least two types of these new c-mount APSC  lenses-

- The mis-labelled f1.4 lenses that are usually with a warning they are really f2.8. I think these are 6 element

- The ringed lens f1.8 lenses. I've seen green rings and blue rings. If ebay ads can be relied on, the blues have a 12 section iris compared to probably some lesser number in the green. These are 8 element. Some sub-versions seem t be able to focus very close. Versions with permanent Sony and Fuji mounts seem to exist.