Gear is for art. Art are politics

[PannySVHS]

5 hours ago, Ed_David said:

And for the question on a the wide-angle adapter for a helious 52mm lens - why not use a full frame camera instead of a GH5?  Or at least the speed booster ultra - and see where that takes you in widening the field of view.

I know panasonic made wide-angle adapters back in the dvx100 era - maybe that could work as well.

you tease. Why not use a varicam lt instead of an amira? Current 36x24mm frame cameras have no benefit to me, usability and colors

and adaptability of photo lens gems- these

features are all lacking. I own the lens, a full frame camera I don´t own. What´s the fun with the obvious stuff anyway!

The speedbooster is in use already. Andrew wrote an article about a wide angle 0.8 adapter from Richard Gale. But those are not available anymore.

My remark about the ww converter in this your thread was due to the lack of actual support of my original thread, where Hockey and Andrew have

given the best possible replies already in the meantime. So again, combining my 20mm Canon FD with a booster and 0.8 wide angle converter would give

me a 11mm lens, which I would put on my MFT camera. Sharpness at F2.8 will be like F4 on my SLRMagic 12mm and it would have similar

characteristics in color and contrast like my other Canon FD lenses. I am very sure I did not tell you anything new here

 

About your topic: A human right is not a privilegue. Lack of human rights is result of the worst crimes such as

racism and chauvinism, a lot of times even legalized. These are in my opinion the meaningful terms to deal with.

The term of white privilegue is one of white washing:) and generalizing

specific guilt of specific individuals, laws, actions, governing, companies and processes in the political, economical and financial systems.

Have you watched the documentary "Harlan County USA"? This is awesome filmmaking.

Social activism is hundreds of years older than us and has been a very dangerous encounter and it still is in some places.

So I wouldnt call internet posts social activism just yet. Language is powerful, to non native speakers as well. They understand the difference

between one term and the other, the possibility of expresseing one thing and lacking in expressing the other.

[jcs]

This forum is a microcosm of the world, a fractal. Andrew is the mayor, Jon is the sheriff, regulars are the villagers, and others are tourists/travelers just passing through. Is it possible for us to discuss these issues, about the world and each other's behavior, without divisive dialog? If we focus on discussing actions vs. people, especially if we ask questions as to why are people acting a certain way, we can get a better understanding of their motivations, and perhaps help each other to realize there might be better ways to achieve our goals. If we can do it on this forum, it will be a useful pattern for the world, right? (a fractal thing)

Does disparaging each other work? Think about it- if someone puts you down, are you likely to listen to anything more about what they have to say, even if they are 100% correct?

I have compassion for everyone working in the media industry, as well as everyone on this forum. We are constantly bombarded with negative energy designed to divide and conquer the US and the World. Folks in the media who don't follow the divisive guidelines face extreme personal and financial pressure to conform. It's truly a bummer.

I spent my free time this summer doing research into what is really going on in the world today. The realization is so terrible that I didn't want to believe it, people who know the truth don't want to talk about it, and people who don't already know the truth don't want to believe it or even hear about it.

All I can say with any certainty, is listen to those who push for kindness, understanding, and unity. Have empathy for all to those who output hate, intolerance, and division. More than anything they need understanding and love: that's how you heal them. Giving them more hate only makes their condition worse, right? This is for the general case and works for almost every person. The exceptions for violent people are noted, and even they are best given love and understanding when they must be countered with force and/or constrained freedom for the protection of others. Think of a powerful samurai warrior who must fight with honor and compassion and without hate. The reason we do this is it's good for all of our biology: kind actions and thoughts improve our mind, body, and spirit health. Kindness is not weakness. A soldier in battle can fight with compassion and without hate: fighting with honor.

What are the advantages of making enemies? Now more than ever in modern history is a good time to practice making friends. We need to work together to get through the possible upcoming crisis. Ideally it will be avoided, but if not we must work together to reduce suffering and possibly even to survive.

[squig]

8 hours ago, Nikkor said:

Your social activism is cultural apropiation, please stop doing it.

Given people of color are asking white people to stand up, that's ridiculous. A white mate of mine was arrested in Boston; Black Lives Matter paid his bail. During the Occupy protests I stood between an Aboriginal man and a cop, risking arrest and potential police brutality; that's not cultural appropriation, that's paying the rent. Quakers were hanged for protesting injustice 500 years ago, it's very much a part of my culture. Sure white people sometimes go too far and need to check themselves, they're only human. Pro tip: don't pick on Ed, he's human too.

P.S. Nazis suck arse.

 

[User]

Well said JCS.
And while I see the grace in your gesture, and though the hordes are not exactly at the border yet, you do realize that there are those who would happily trample the flower you offer them while taking your life in the process? Let's see what the future brings...

[jcs]

1 hour ago, User said:

Well said JCS.
And while I see the grace in your gesture, and though the hordes are not exactly at the border yet, you do realize that there are those who would happily trample the flower you offer them while taking your life in the process? Let's see what the future brings...

Thanks User. That's why we are best training and thinking like samurai. Joining together with like-minded people to not only protect ourselves but also those who are not able to protect themselves. If the hordes come, we do our best to help them, at the same time being smart and not putting ourselves at risk. If we must fight, we do so with compassion and honor. That's a big reason to make friends and work as a team vs. going solo in times of crisis. I finally started watching Game of Thrones and I see one reason why it's so popular right now: lots of metaphors for what's happening in the real world.

[User]

Agreed, strength in insight, foresight and community.
I have yet to step into Game of Thrones... but it certainly seems to be everywhere.
Alrighty... back to the front

[Emanuel]

Hot thread... Chill out guys and gals ; ) Let's keep it up a little bit at least, we are all friends over Andrew's home :-)

[Ed_David]

23 hours ago, Jonesy Jones said:

No anonymity here. I go by Jonesy. Look up Jonesy Jones on imdb, I'm the first on the list. Same name as every other forum or website. 

I'd still love to hear your reasoning for calling Kaylee, Ebrahim.

Because kaylee is just a username. Could be anyones sockpuppet including ebrahim.

Same with user. User whatever grudge you have against me i apologize.

Again about my ego...i have an ego. Big deal. A lot of people have egos.

About argueing with me is like arguing with a black hole...isnt that the point of debating? You dont change a persons mind but you become stronger in your own beliefs and reasoning skills?

Im not here to change your minds. I just here to whine about someone deleting a thread I wrote for no reason and not telling me why...just deleting it. 

19 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

you tease. Why not use a varicam lt instead of an amira? Current 36x24mm frame cameras have no benefit to me, usability and colors

and adaptability of photo lens gems- these

features are all lacking. I own the lens, a full frame camera I don´t own. What´s the fun with the obvious stuff anyway!

The speedbooster is in use already. Andrew wrote an article about a wide angle 0.8 adapter from Richard Gale. But those are not available anymore.

My remark about the ww converter in this your thread was due to the lack of actual support of my original thread, where Hockey and Andrew have

given the best possible replies already in the meantime. So again, combining my 20mm Canon FD with a booster and 0.8 wide angle converter would give

me a 11mm lens, which I would put on my MFT camera. Sharpness at F2.8 will be like F4 on my SLRMagic 12mm and it would have similar

characteristics in color and contrast like my other Canon FD lenses. I am very sure I did not tell you anything new here

 

About your topic: A human right is not a privilegue. Lack of human rights is result of the worst crimes such as

racism and chauvinism, a lot of times even legalized. These are in my opinion the meaningful terms to deal with.

The term of white privilegue is one of white washing:) and generalizing

specific guilt of specific individuals, laws, actions, governing, companies and processes in the political, economical and financial systems.

Have you watched the documentary "Harlan County USA"? This is awesome filmmaking.

Social activism is hundreds of years older than us and has been a very dangerous encounter and it still is in some places.

So I wouldnt call internet posts social activism just yet. Language is powerful, to non native speakers as well. They understand the difference

between one term and the other, the possibility of expresseing one thing and lacking in expressing the other.

Why not shoot on a red helium or red weapon to get full frame or a7s ii or any other full frame camera.

Our linguistic understandings differ. 

White priveliege to me is a term of self awareness.

Activism to me can be as simple as signing a petition.

I think maybe you think of activism as work consisting of more than 10 minutes a day of work.

Let me know your thoughts?

Also im not really a fan of the amira. Nor varicam lt though i havent testsed it personally. About to post a test soon between alexa f65 ursa mini and red helium

[Ed_David]

17 hours ago, jcs said:

This forum is a microcosm of the world, a fractal. Andrew is the mayor, Jon is the sheriff, regulars are the villagers, and others are tourists/travelers just passing through. Is it possible for us to discuss these issues, about the world and each other's behavior, without divisive dialog? If we focus on discussing actions vs. people, especially if we ask questions as to why are people acting a certain way, we can get a better understanding of their motivations, and perhaps help each other to realize there might be better ways to achieve our goals. If we can do it on this forum, it will be a useful pattern for the world, right? (a fractal thing)

Does disparaging each other work? Think about it- if someone puts you down, are you likely to listen to anything more about what they have to say, even if they are 100% correct?

I have compassion for everyone working in the media industry, as well as everyone on this forum. We are constantly bombarded with negative energy designed to divide and conquer the US and the World. Folks in the media who don't follow the divisive guidelines face extreme personal and financial pressure to conform. It's truly a bummer.

I spent my free time this summer doing research into what is really going on in the world today. The realization is so terrible that I didn't want to believe it, people who know the truth don't want to talk about it, and people who don't already know the truth don't want to believe it or even hear about it.

All I can say with any certainty, is listen to those who push for kindness, understanding, and unity. Have empathy for all to those who output hate, intolerance, and division. More than anything they need understanding and love: that's how you heal them. Giving them more hate only makes their condition worse, right? This is for the general case and works for almost every person. The exceptions for violent people are noted, and even they are best given love and understanding when they must be countered with force and/or constrained freedom for the protection of others. Think of a powerful samurai warrior who must fight with honor and compassion and without hate. The reason we do this is it's good for all of our biology: kind actions and thoughts improve our mind, body, and spirit health. Kindness is not weakness. A soldier in battle can fight with compassion and without hate: fighting with honor.

What are the advantages of making enemies? Now more than ever in modern history is a good time to practice making friends. We need to work together to get through the possible upcoming crisis. Ideally it will be avoided, but if not we must work together to reduce suffering and possibly even to survive.

Really well said.

I think i have offended user kaylee and jonesy jones here and in the past posts and I apologize.

The initial post i wrote was written in haste.

I still however will not apologize to jon pais for deleting my post.

The act of deletion of a post about a racist and discriminating camera store on a camera forum about speedboosters and diy anamorphic adaptors that many buy our stuff from is not a good move.

Deleting anyone or banning anyone is never good.

It alienantes people.

Furthermore fanning flames and liking posts of harassment and swear words is also not a good thing.

I am therefore voting for removing jonpais title of moderator from this cameranerd forum.

Anyone else?

[jcs]

@Ed_David you made your point about B&H, some agree, some disagree, the courts ruled, we're paying attention to these issues, perhaps time to focus on a new issue? Such as how to unite the people away from chaos and war? You have a lot of talent, would love to see a piece by you using the amazing F65 which promotes love, understanding and unity. Tell a story to make people cry with joy, brother  

[silvertonesx24]

1 hour ago, Ed_David said:

About argueing with me is like arguing with a black hole...isnt that the point of debating? You dont change a persons mind but you become stronger in your own beliefs and reasoning skills?

Why? So we can become even more polarized and you can safely live in the echo chamber of your own head? The benefit of debating is to convince others on the fence to heed your reasoning vs the other debater.

There is no reasoning with someone who tosses out "Trump is a white nationalist" as an absolutism. It's such an illogical foundation for debate that why should anyone who isn't a sycophant even bother. What a waste of time.

Had you started with "Trump doesn't seem care that actual bleeding white nationalists are using his persona to embolden themselves. Here's why I believe that's dangerous" then maybe we could have a productive discussion. Or you could create inspiring art around that. But you didn't, so we won't.

[User]

1 hour ago, Ed_David said:

Same with user. User whatever grudge you have against me i apologize.

In the interest of truth and reconciliation, do I understand that you don't really know why I would have a grudge against you?

[Ed_David]

7 minutes ago, User said:

In the interest of truth and reconciliation, do I understand that you don't really know why I would have a grudge against you?

I don't.  I'm sorry.  Your username is, well, User - it's hard to remember.  Is it from the PB stuff or Ebrahim stuff?  A lot of people were attacking me.  It's hard to remember whom was whom.

[Don Kotlos]

1 hour ago, Ed_David said:

Really well said.

I think i have offended user kaylee and jonesy jones here and in the past posts and I apologize.

The initial post i wrote was written in haste.

I still however will not apologize to jon pais for deleting my post.

The act of deletion of a post about a racist and discriminating camera store on a camera forum about speedboosters and diy anamorphic adaptors that many buy our stuff from is not a good move.

Deleting anyone or banning anyone is never good.

It alienantes people.

Furthermore fanning flames and liking posts of harassment and swear words is also not a good thing.

I am therefore voting for removing jonpais title of moderator from this cameranerd forum.

Anyone else?

While I agree that moderation of this thread was at least poor, I believe people can change and as yourself I am against harsh actions. 

This thread (if not deleted) will be here to remind us of how moderation should NOT be done. The level of personal attacks allowed or even supported has never been an EOSHD norm nor should it ever be. It doesn't matter if you disagree with someone's political views or passionate words. 

 

[Ed_David]

30 minutes ago, silvertonesx24 said:

Why? So we can become even more polarized and you can safely live in the echo chamber of your own head? The benefit of debating is to convince others on the fence to heed your reasoning vs the other debater.

There is no reasoning with someone who tosses out "Trump is a white nationalist" as an absolutism. It's such an illogical foundation for debate that why should anyone who isn't a sycophant even bother. What a waste of time.

Had you started with "Trump doesn't seem care that actual bleeding white nationalists are using his persona to embolden themselves. Here's why I believe that's dangerous" then maybe we could have a productive discussion. Or you could create inspiring art around that. But you didn't, so we won't.

I completely agree with you.

To be fair, I don't really use this forum as what I consider political activism to a reasonable degree where I will change people's minds on the fence.

If you are from USA, I apologize - but if you are not - I could easily go into more detail about Trump being a white nationalist as a more definite statement - starting with his father attending KKK rallies and the hiring of Steve Bannon, a card-carrying white nationalist into the white house.  I can post examples of statements Bannon has made that confirm this.  Or that Trump watches Alex Jones.

Has Trump said anything decidedly racist?  Yes, about Mexicans sending their rapists and others, and his disparaging comments about the Latino judge.  

But I guess what is your definition of a white nationalist?

Mine is a person who is racist and believes that European Americans are a superior race to other races.  Maybe yours is more resolute - like a person who attends KKK rallies or neo nazi events and does the hitler salute?

5 minutes ago, Don Kotlos said:

While agree that moderation of this thread was at least poor, I believe people can change and as yourself I am against harsh actions. 

This thread (if not deleted) will be here to remind us of how moderation should NOT be done. The level of personal attacks allowed or even supported has never been an EOSHD norm nor should it ever be. It doesn't matter if you agree/disagree with someone's political views or passionate words. 

 

Jonpais has had several chances to apologize to me personally and publicly.

He has chosen not too.

Removing him from a volunteer title of moderator I don't think is that harsh of a result of this.  I'm sure there is someone else who would be more level-headed.

It's mostly just keeping the restaurant moving.

The bigger question, though, is why care?  

The age of forums is for, better or worse, dying.

Discussion has moved onto facebook.  Which, is in some ways better, I think, in that everyone is using their real names.  So they take more responsibility for personal attacks and harassment of other users. 

[Don Kotlos]

18 minutes ago, Ed_David said:

So they take more responsibility for personal attacks and harassment of other users.  It can linger on their professional internet record their entire career.

In trump age, it doesn't matter. Actually it might even help. I believe that humans (unfortunately) have a sadistic side. Hollywood takes advantage of that: most people enjoy watching the beating of the bad guy. In real life of course there is not really a bad guy, but just another point of view. And of course we either forget that or more likely we don't spend the effort to understand them. Its easier to generalize, enforce our personal norms and punish. 

[User]

52 minutes ago, Ed_David said:

I don't.  I'm sorry.  Your username is, well, User - it's hard to remember.  Is it from the PB stuff or Ebrahim stuff?  A lot of people were attacking me.  It's hard to remember whom was whom.

Apologising for things you have no idea about seems quite insincere and in line with the kind of behaviour that has brought you into this mess in the first place. You know that right?

All of our comments are searchable.

And just between us, I never watched that video you made. But if you give me your mailing address, I'd like to send you 30 feet of garden hose and a golf ball. Make a clip with that and I'll watch it

I wish you well.

[silvertonesx24]

22 minutes ago, Ed_David said:

But I guess what is your definition of a white nationalist?

Mine is a person who is racist

That's...a circular definition. Also, racist is a relative term, and has been corroded to near-meaninglessness.

A white nationalist is someone who's defining ideology is that the white race (more accurately, Aryan; WN hate plenty of 'white' people) inherently owns their nation and manifests destiny over other races and nations.

This is a clear, objective, and absolutist definition.

[Andrew Reid]

1 hour ago, Ed_David said:

The age of forums is for, better or worse, dying.

Discussion has moved onto facebook.  Which, is in some ways better, I think, in that everyone is using their real names.  So they take more responsibility for personal attacks and harassment of other users. 

I don't think forums are dying, one of the largest is Reddit and that has never been more popular or mainstream.

Facebook discussions are a whisker away from YouTube comments - the use of real names doesn't seem to change anything. People are attacked and abused on Facebook and Twitter in far greater numbers than all of the camera forums put together!

What the world needs to do is go offline and be productive... Then when they are back online, they can self-express in more productive ways as well, rather than shouting at one-another because of their different opinions. The internet has created a tribal culture, with echo chambers and mobs.

Thanks Ed for starting a lively discussion... If we can all lighten up and see the fun in it or use some humour, it would be a nice way of glossing over our superficial differences and recognising the fact we're all humans with similar interests and if one of us ever got hurt, or needed help in real life, we'd step up.

[jonpais]

Countless corporations have been sued by employees for unfair labor practices, including Coca Cola, UPS and the list goes on and on and on. So why single B&H out? Is there an ulterior motive at work here? According to what I've read, if B&H fails to change hiring practices and working conditions, the Office of Federal Compliance Programs will request the cancellation of the store’s contracts with the federal government, amounting to some $46 million in lost revenue. A boycott would be misguided and could only harm the employees: the threat of losing lucrative government contracts should be inducement enough for B&H to change. You may agree or disagree if you like, but in no way would any reasonable person interpret my thoughts or actions as being racist or defending racism, as Ed is so fond of repeating ad nauseum. He is so sure Trump is a white supremacist, just as he was certain that Blackmagic knowingly and intentionally released a faulty camera. And while I personally have never shopped at their brick and mortar store, I refuse to believe that if there was indeed discrimination at B&H, that this reflects on the vast majority of the store's staff, whom I imagine are decent human beings, but only on a select few. Incidentally, Ed's first and subsequent posts all but accuse me of racism, which is a wee tiny bit more obnoxious than anything I've leveled at him. Meanwhile, if Ed suggests boycotting B&H, but continues to purchase thousands of dollars of merchandise from them each year as he does, that's pretty much the height of hypocrisy. I really don't care though, because for all I know, I'm arguing with a sockpuppet.