LOL Canon... C200 Codec "Upgrade" details announced

[jcs]

9 hours ago, DBounce said:

But is it really 4k? 

Here's the math again: Bayer sensor resolution * .58 = resolution without aliasing, *.8 = max resolution before extinction of detail. 4096*.58 = 2376 before aliasing starts, then up to 3277 before extinction of detail (and progressive aliasing up to the extinction limit). Just remember those two numbers .58, and .8 (true resolution up to max aliased resolution).

To get true 4096 pixels without aliasing, we need 4096/.58 = 7062 Bayer sensor photosites. To guarantee little or no aliasing, the OLPF would cut detail much sooner than the .8 limit, just past the .58 detail level. To get "4K", or 3840, we need 3840/.58 = 6621 (6.6K) photosites.

[Django]

16 hours ago, BenEricson said:

R3D seems to be doing pretty well. 

RED cameras allow you to shoot all kinds of ProRes flavours (4444, 422) & resolutions in addition to R3D raw formats.. and even so we are talking high-end cine cams which is pretty niche to start with..

[hmcindie]

15 minutes ago, Django said:

high-end cine cams which is pretty niche to start with..

High-end cine cams is what everyone wants!

[ND64]

I really don't understand how cheap external recorders manage to give us Prores options and camera makers can't! Is there some kind of embargo for still cameras or for video cameras with prices lower than certain level? 

[UncleBobsPhotography]

On 8/27/2017 at 0:24 PM, Eric Calabros said:

I really don't understand how cheap external recorders manage to give us Prores options and camera makers can't! Is there some kind of embargo for still cameras or for video cameras with prices lower than certain level? 

There is a licensing fee involved, perhaps the camera manufacturing companies don't consider the codec to make up for the increased price of the camera until a certain price point? Or perhaps it is market segmentation.

Here is a list of authorized ProRes products, some manufacturers definitely set the price point for adding ProRes lower than others:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT200321

[Arikhan]

I just can not understand the general excitement because of the "inexistent 422 10bit codec", as you can get it any time with an external recorder. OK, it's not internal, but when filming for broadcasting purposes you have to carry a little bit of gear with you - and if you don't want, you CAN even film 4K 420 8bit and transform it to "broadcast specific" 1080p, I've done this a couple of times when delivering 1080p and braodcasters were ALWAYS happy - no complains. So the "no 422 10 bit indignation" seems to be more of a theoretical discussion than from a real, practical point of view...For sure, it would be nice to get it internally, but hey - it's Canon as we know them...

It would be much more decessive to see the quality and maleablility of the RAW light and then buy a CFast to SSD adapter to get affordable storage media for shootings...

[ivanku]

I don't think that using an external recorder gets you 10 bit with the C200

[EthanAlexander]

3 hours ago, Arikhan said:

I just can not understand the general excitement because of the "inexistent 422 10bit codec", as you can get it any time with an external recorder.

Only 1080. 4K is 8 bit. And not even 4:2:2.

"EOS C200 can output either 1920x1080 YCC 4:2:2 10-bit over the HD-SDI Terminal, or 3840x2160 4:2:0 8-bit over the HDMI"

http://learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2017/eos-c200-production-brief.shtml

And to your other point, having to use a bulky 7" recorder is a big deal to a lot of ENG or even narratives (such as for gimbal use), so to act like it's no big deal is a bit of a stretch, especially when other cameras in the price range offer 10bit 4K internally.

[Andrew Reid]

Look at the codec on the GH5.

It's laughable what Canon is offering for triple the money!

[Arikhan]

52 minutes ago, EthanAlexander said:

Only 1080. 4K is 8 bit. And not even 4:2:2.

"EOS C200 can output either 1920x1080 YCC 4:2:2 10-bit over the HD-SDI Terminal, or 3840x2160 4:2:0 8-bit over the HDMI"

Yep...But for broadcast delivery, there is no 4K...So, the 1080p 422 10 would be very fine....

@Andrew Reid

Quote

 

Look at the codec on the GH5.

It's laughable what Canon is offering for triple the money!

 

You compare a non-RAW camera with a RAW camera without ever seen the footage out of the C200? Hmm...

My personal interest in the C200 is just RAW and the very nice AF, allowing one man bands and small crews to capture the moment...Both not existant in the GH5...So...

[mercer]

I don't know if this has been posted yet, but...

 

[Andrew Reid]

Magic Lantern's raw looks to me to have the edge, it has more bit depth, better colour rendering and all for the bargain price of $0.

[mercer]

Okay, I can buy that. But where are you going to get 4K 60p Raw with Touch DPAF for $6000?

[Andrew Reid]

Where are YOU going to get 10bit 4K 4:2:2 LOG and 180fps slow-mo for $6000?

Not Canon!

[Mattias Burling]

38 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Where are YOU going to get 10bit 4K 4:2:2 LOG and 180fps slow-mo for $6000?

Not Canon!

My Red One had pretty much that for half the cost

And its ten years old.

[Andrew Reid]

And a far better raw codec than Canon as well!

Also real DPs don't use AF!

[Jonathan Clifford Bergqvist]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

Also real DPs don't use AF!

Tell me you're joking. 

[jcs]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

Also real DPs don't use AF!

Is that why so much of Interstellar was out of focus?  

When a skilled focus puller is not available, especially for 4K, isn't AF (such as DPAF) a useful tool?

[Andrew Reid]

I'm joking guys.

[Fahnon]

4 hours ago, EthanAlexander said:

Only 1080. 4K is 8 bit. And not even 4:2:2.

"EOS C200 can output either 1920x1080 YCC 4:2:2 10-bit over the HD-SDI Terminal, or 3840x2160 4:2:0 8-bit over the HDMI"

http://learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2017/eos-c200-production-brief.shtml

And to your other point, having to use a bulky 7" recorder is a big deal to a lot of ENG or even narratives (such as for gimbal use), so to act like it's no big deal is a bit of a stretch, especially when other cameras in the price range offer 10bit 4K internally.

Long time lurker.  Just signed up to say the info in link is wrong or old and the C200 does output 8-bit 4:2:2 over HDMI at 24p, and drops to 4:2:0 at 50/60p.  

Here's a link to the manual (check page 139):  http://gdlp01.c-wss.com/gds/3/0300027483/02/eosc200-200b-im2-en.pdf

Bummer about the codec being apparently no better than what's already on the camera (even though I'll be shooting RAW 90% of the time).  I have to wonder what the point is, and they really should have given it a higher bitrate at least.  Having said that, I took delivery of the C200 about a week and a half ago; and I have to say if you lied told me the codec was 10-bit, I'd believe it.  Check out this guy's timelapse and he also says that there was no banding at all (downloads are enabled):