The Ability to Improve at Cinematography

[Ed_David]

Just heard a cool thing on radiolab - asked, are our personalities fixed at birth?  The scientist replied, "half-fixed."

So for me this means we can learn and constantly improve our skills.

And whatever natural talent anyone has for photography or cinematography, or lack there of, it can be learned.

10,000 hours of practice and watching and learning.

So forums like this are really good.

[Dave Maze]

Absolutely. Hard work is the secret sauce.

I personally believe that all humans are "creative". Its just in our nature.

Some of us have been able to tap into that and have worked hard at making that their career. 

 

"Career" is man made. The 9-5 "job" is a recent innovation. Man kind has been creative and scrappy their entire existence to survive and to entertain. 

What a fascinating species we are

[jcs]

https://sharpbrains.com/blog/2008/02/26/brain-plasticity-how-learning-changes-your-brain/

Diet also affects learning and behavior. Avoid or minimize sugar, caffeine, tobacco, and alcohol. Detox the body with herbs and supplements. Meditate and exercise every day. This will result in learning anything faster.

Actually creating content is the most valuable tool for learning photography and filmmaking. That's why many famous content creators advise against film school. Their suggestion is get out and shoot- a lot!

[Cinegain]

Look at Formula 1 drivers. Usually they're starting out picking up daddy's interest/legacy. Their environment enables them to get into it at a young age, to start with karting and progress to the big leagues. It's about showing interest, having the environment and possibilities to pursue said interest and put it the time and dedication to learn and gain experience in that field. A big part of one's personality or ability is upbringing. And especially at a younger age you're an easy learner, same for languages or picking up stuff like skateboarding. That said, if your interest is with video games rather than playing the piano... more likely you'll be better at the stuff that you're actually interested in. And you might want to play tennis... but it can actually be that you just naturally aren't very gifted at it somehow, it just doesn't come as second nature. Some people's brains are just wired differently, we have different aspirations and abilities that do set us apart. Wanting something alone isn't good enough... it's not a guarantee of it actually happening. But at lot is possible if you put your mind to it, that much is true. And like that kid that followed in his dad's footsteps... just make sure you have the environment and possibilities to grow and put in the time and get the experience to do just that. One step a day might appear insignificant, but you will have come quite the journey over time.

[EthanAlexander]

I'd like to add to the great points everyone's made:

I've learned a ton from forums and youtube videos, (and it's quite a privilege for us to live in a world where all this info is available so readily) BUT, none of that knowledge has been a replacement for the MISTAKES I've made and what I've learned from them. 

Working through the issues that arise on set even on one day's shoot is worth 100 hours of online information, I'd say. This includes dealing with technical problems, working around location limitations, dealing with difficult talent or coworkers, leadership qualities, etc. 

Also, and I have no reason for this other than personal experience and going with my gut, I've found that taking some time to do other creative things like playing guitar actually help tremendously with my main craft.

[Dave Maze]

1 hour ago, EthanAlexander said:

I'd like to add to the great points everyone's made:

I've learned a ton from forums and youtube videos, (and it's quite a privilege for us to live in a world where all this info is available so readily) BUT, none of that knowledge has been a replacement for the MISTAKES I've made and what I've learned from them. 

Working through the issues that arise on set even on one day's shoot is worth 100 hours of online information, I'd say. This includes dealing with technical problems, working around location limitations, dealing with difficult talent or coworkers, leadership qualities, etc. 

Also, and I have no reason for this other than personal experience and going with my gut, I've found that taking some time to do other creative things like playing guitar actually help tremendously with my main craft.

Looking at your avatar pic while reading what you wrote makes it even better.

[kaylee]

5 hours ago, jcs said:

Avoid or minimize sugar, caffeine, tobacco, and alcohol

but ill starve

[jcs]

13 minutes ago, kaylee said:

but ill starve

If you're over ~30 (just a ballpark age for "not young") you can use MJ without risking memory loss   Also: http://herb.co/2017/02/27/prevent-memory-loss/, and of course CBD (or MJ high in CBD).

And the older one gets, the more it may actually help to restore brain function: http://www.newsweek.com/cannabis-marijuana-restores-memory-learning-cognitive-decline-596160

[Snowfun]

@jcs. No.

The vox pop report you quote refers to an animal study based on the effects of THC. It is easy to copy'n'paste "scientific evidence" - less straightforward to apply and interpret research findings in an appropriate way. 

Of course, such substances (THC and CBD) may benefit creativity in a variety of other ways!

[fuzzynormal]

7 hours ago, jcs said:

creating content is the most valuable tool for learning photography and filmmaking...get out and shoot- a lot!

I offered that advice recently on a forum thread and the OP rejected it.  

No problem.

However, that does show that each of us has our own way of doing things, especially with creative stuff.  

[jcs]

31 minutes ago, Snowfun said:

@jcs. No.

The vox pop report you quote refers to an animal study based on the effects of THC. It is easy to copy'n'paste "scientific evidence" - less straightforward to apply and interpret research findings in an appropriate way. 

Of course, such substances (THC and CBD) may benefit creativity in a variety of other ways!

@Snowfun, yes, brother. We use mice all the time in mammalian studies which also applies to humans. That's why we test with mice first. I studied cognitive science and biology at UCSD (and nutrition under Dr. Paul Saltman).

From: http://www.medicalmarijuanainc.com/cannabis-restore-memory-cognitive-abilities/

Quote

The researchers found that THC’s cognitive benefits were due to its direct interaction with cannabinoid receptor 1 (CB1) of the endocannabinoid system (ECS). The ECS is responsible for regulating several physiological processes, including memory and cognitive function. The study found that THC’s effects were “critically dependent” on the CB1 receptors, as the cognitive improvements didn’t occur when the CB1 receptors were blocked.

Humans also have CB1 receptors in their ECS.

Do you have information which contradicts these studies?

[fuzzynormal]

6 hours ago, EthanAlexander said:

none of that knowledge has been a replacement for the MISTAKES I've made and what I've learned from them. 

Working through the issues that arise on set even on one day's shoot is worth 100 hours of online information.

That's how it's been for me as well. Wisdom is earned. 

[jcs]

19 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

I offered that advice recently on a forum thread and the OP rejected it.  

No problem.

However, that does show that each of us has our own way of doing things, especially with creative stuff.  

Yeah no worries, everyone has their own methods for learning.

I guess we're of the same philosophy to skip film school and get out and shoot:

• AKIRA KUROSAWA    JOHN WATERS    MIRANDA JULY    QUENTIN TARANTINO    STANLEY KUBRICK    TERRY GILLIAM

http://flavorwire.com/412974/famous-directors-who-never-went-to-film-school

And Robert Rodriguez when he shot El Mariachi. I recommend everyone read this book if you haven't already: https://www.amazon.com/Rebel-without-Crew-23-Year-Old-Filmmaker/dp/0452271878

[jonpais]

54 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

I offered that advice recently on a forum thread and the OP rejected it.  

No problem.

However, that does show that each of us has our own way of doing things, especially with creative stuff.  

There was something wrong with the OP in the first place.

[Snowfun]

@jcs

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3902221/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2642860/

Just 2 papers which question the wisdom of blindly applying animal models to a human context. UG stuff. Totally irrelevant to these fora but you did ask.

The fact that you "studied" something is irrelevant. I have studied the spec sheet of a Red epic. Does that make me an "expert" in the art of  cinematography? On your logic, yes. I wish! 

Your approach to the scientific method is flawed. A good scientist presents evidence FOR his or her proposition. They do not demand that someone produces evidence to the contrary. (Unicorns exist. If you don't accept that prove that they don't. Reductio ad absurdum).  And evidence in this respect isn't a collection of random copy'n'paste from a variety of sources (rarely peer reviewed).  

You mention refraining from alcohol. Generally good advice (as witnessed elsewhere by Kaylee's story). But remember

http://www.tate.org.uk/context-comment/articles/drink-fuelled-nations-art

Always a counter-example!

But this is impinging on my day job and it's dull. I apologise for treating your posts like one of my student essays! 

On a not totally unrelated note - you don't by any chance have direct experience of comparing high ISO footage on the C200 compared to your C300ii do you? (I think you have the latter?) I'd be interested to learn more about that as I'm thinking of a C200.

Tim

[fuzzynormal]

57 minutes ago, jcs said:

Yeah no worries, everyone has their own methods for learning.

I guess we're of the same philosophy to skip film school and get out and shoot:

• AKIRA KUROSAWA    JOHN WATERS    MIRANDA JULY    QUENTIN TARANTINO    STANLEY KUBRICK    TERRY GILLIAM

http://flavorwire.com/412974/famous-directors-who-never-went-to-film-school

And Robert Rodriguez when he shot El Mariachi. I recommend everyone read this book if you haven't already: https://www.amazon.com/Rebel-without-Crew-23-Year-Old-Filmmaker/dp/0452271878

It's a fun book to read. His process ain't mine, but it was still inspiring; especially in the era he did it.   

13 minutes ago, jonpais said:

There was something wrong with the OP in the first place.

Be that as it may, he was a guy set in his ways and knew what he wanted to do... which leads to another wrinkle in regards to creativity and motion pictures: Some of us are tuned into the process in a way that our endeavors quickly resonate with the recipients that view them.

These creatives know the "vocabulary" of the craft rather easily and fluently.

Those folks are the blessed, as they have a storytelling advantage.

Others strive away at things more esoteric and never find an audience, nor may never desire one.  

Seems like I heard a term for this phenomenon in the past, but I can't recall the phrase at the moment.

 

[jonpais]

17 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

It's a fun book to read. His process ain't mine, but it was still inspiring; especially in the era he did it.   

Be that as it may, he was a guy set in his ways and knew what he wanted to do... which leads to another wrinkle in regards to creativity and motion pictures: Some of us are tuned into the process in a way that our endeavors quickly resonate with the recipients that view them.

These creatives know the "vocabulary" of the craft rather easily and fluently.

Those folks are the blessed, as they have a storytelling advantage.

Others strive away at things more esoteric and never find an audience, nor may never desire one.  

Seems like I heard a term for this phenomenon in the past, but I can't recall the phrase at the moment.

 

I've seen your work and it 'resonates' with me; I've never seen the work of 'meanwhile', nor do I have any interest in doing so.

[jcs]

30 minutes ago, Snowfun said:

@jcs

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3902221/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2642860/

Just 2 papers which question the wisdom of blindly applying animal models to a human context. UG stuff. Totally irrelevant to these fora but you did ask.

The fact that you "studied" something is irrelevant. I have studied the spec sheet of a Red epic. Does that make me an "expert" in the art of  cinematography? On your logic, yes. I wish! 

Your approach to the scientific method is flawed. A good scientist presents evidence FOR his or her proposition. They do not demand that someone produces evidence to the contrary. (Unicorns exist. If you don't accept that prove that they don't. Reductio ad absurdum).  And evidence in this respect isn't a collection of random copy'n'paste from a variety of sources (rarely peer reviewed).  

You mention refraining from alcohol. Generally good advice (as witnessed elsewhere by Kaylee's story). But remember

http://www.tate.org.uk/context-comment/articles/drink-fuelled-nations-art

Always a counter-example!

But this is impinging on my day job and it's dull. I apologise for treating your posts like one of my student essays! 

On a not totally unrelated note - you don't by any chance have direct experience of comparing high ISO footage on the C200 compared to your C300ii do you? (I think you have the latter?) I'd be interested to learn more about that as I'm thinking of a C200.

Tim

Not demanding anything, Tim. This is a friendly forum among friends, right? By telling you I have a background in biology I'm letting you know it's OK to go deep if you like.

My understanding regarding THC and CBD is that when we are young (e.g. under 30), our bodies have sufficient cannabinoids, and if one uses THC, it can impair memory and brain function, so my advice to those under 30 is to limit or avoid THC. As we age, we have less cannabinoids, and thus supplementation can actually help the ECS system, resulting in improved memory and brain function. CBD is ok even for children, e.g. brain seizures, however I wouldn't suggest it for kids in general until there is more research data. I would expect CBD to be less toxic to the body than pharma for anxiety in teens and young adults.

I did quickly search the NIH for THC and memory studies for older adults; didn't find any. The CB1 receptor and ECS system are relatively much simpler than cancer studies, which involve so many system in the body, especially the immune system: it's super complicated. So I agree that animal studies for cancer may not be that great in some cases. I know from personal experience (anecdotal) that CBD is quite effective in both humans and dogs. Sure it's not a double blind large population study, but it's good enough for us and the dogs  

Yes, I have a C300 II, used mostly in the studio. I only shoot internal (vs. external raw), so I can't comment on that, however noise performance is pretty good. The latest firmware allows you to completely turn off noise reduction, which would be the same as raw (haven't tested turning of NR yet). The C200 is a killer camera if you don't need 10- or 12-bit compressed (vs. 12-bit raw). Noise control is the secret sauce to getting 8-bit to look really good. For most people, 8-bit and a little in-camera noise is good for everything they need. The C300 I and C100 I & II were super popular, the C200 will be as well.

Saw this a while ago (maybe start another thread as this is going off topic even more ) :

 

[Snowfun]

1 minute ago, jcs said:

Not demanding anything, Tim. This is a friendly forum among friends, right? By telling you I have a background in biology I'm letting you know it's OK to go deep if you like.

My understanding regarding THC and CBD is that when we are young (e.g. under 30), our bodies have sufficient cannabinoids, and if one uses THC, it can impair memory and brain function, so my advice to those under 30 is to limit or avoid THC. As we age, we have less cannabinoids, and thus supplementation can actually help the ECS system, resulting in improved memory and brain function. CBD is ok even for children, e.g. brain seizures, however I wouldn't suggest it for kids in general until there is more research data. I would expect CBD to be less toxic to the body than pharma for anxiety in teens and young adults.

I did quickly search the NIH for THC and memory studies for older adults; didn't find any. The CB1 receptor and ECS system are relatively much simpler than cancer studies, which involve so many system in the body, especially the immune system: it's super complicated. So I agree that animal studies for cancer may not be that great in some cases. I know from personal experience (anecdotal) that CBD is quite effective in both humans and dogs. Sure it's not a double blind large population study, but it's good enough for us and the dogs  

Yes, I have a C300 II, used mostly in the studio. I only shoot internal (vs. external raw), so I can't comment on that, however noise performance is pretty good. The latest firmware allows you to completely turn of noise reduction, which would be the same as raw (haven't tested turning of NR yet). The C200 is a killer camera if you don't need 10- or 12-bit compressed (vs. 12-bit raw). Noise control is the secret sauce to getting 8-bit to look really good. For most people, 8-bit and a little in-camera noise is good for everything they need. The C300 I and C100 I & II were super popular, the C200 will be as well.

Saw this a while ago (maybe start another thread as this is going off topic even more ) :

 

Absolutely right about the "forum for friends"! I used the term "demand" as in "require" not in any aggressive or confrontational manner. Apologies if that didn't come across.

Thank you for the video link - it's on topic insofar as it's about learning! But, granted, tenuous at best. I know the advice given here is frequently "rent before you buy" but it's not always that easy so engaging with users is possibly the next best thing.

Tim

[IronFilm]

1 hour ago, jcs said:

The C300 I and C100 I & II were super popular, the C200 will be as well.

The C500 wasn't majorly popular. 

The C300 mk2 is playing second fiddle to the FS7 and other cameras. 

I wouldn't be surprised if the C200 fails to be a big hit for Canon.