Interesting Hands On Report From Panasonic EVA1 Event

[BTM_Pix]

No camera footage unfortunately but a good report from an attendee at a presentation that Panasonic did in Hamburg.

What I find interesting seeing it in this context is that when you actually see it in people's hands, it looks a lot more compact than I was imagining it was.

Surprised that if you want wifi control that you need a separate dongle. Its the same with the JVC LS300 but I'm surprised its the same with Panasonic because its integrated into every camera they do. Hopefully like JVC this will be able to use any old £6 dongle rather than something expensive and proprietary.

I'm curious about this camera now.

On the one hand, it has probably been helped with recent news about Canon's C200 updates which most people have been underwhelmed by but has the recent news about the GH5's updates done it any favours?

Odd situation that it now goes to IBC - where it finally shows what it can actually do - having more to prove against one of its own products than its competitor in some respects.

Its odd enough that it makes me suspect that its possibly going to be pant wettingly good.

Is anyone on here genuinely interested in buying one ?

 

[dbp]

Definitely curious to see the footage. Those who've used it on dvxuser seem to hinting to not expect it to look like the varicam footage. Not sure what to make of that. Maybe I'm too cynical but I have a feeling the footage will underwhelm for the price.

[jonpais]

@BTM_Pix Since you mention JVC, before picking up a GH5 this afternoon, the only other camera that I seriously considered getting was the LS300. It'd be a whole lot less painful coming from micro four thirds. I really like this cross-compatibility thing, as well as manufacturers that treat us to a gazillion free firmware updates, like Fuji and Panasonic. Actually, a number of forum members had been imploring me to pick up the GH5 for months, and Andrew's review is what made me finally cave in. I need another camera about as much as I need a pair of mittens and a scarf.  It reminds me a little of when I used to drive to Chevrolet (where I worked as staff photographer) in my Datsun, and my boss was always trying to pressure me into buying American.

[BTM_Pix]

4 minutes ago, dbp said:

I have a feeling the footage will underwhelm for the price.

Its the comparative aspect of that now more so than anything with the GH5 setting the bar for what one of their own cameras can do for a quarter of the price isn't it?

They may have performed an 'Inverse Canon' move here

[dbp]

Pretty much. I respect that it's a really tough balance, especially nowadays where even lower end cameras are getting really good. I mean, how do you make something genuinely 4x better than a GH5 at this point?

[BTM_Pix]

6 minutes ago, jonpais said:

@BTM_Pix Since you mention JVC, before picking up a GH5 this afternoon, the only other camera that I seriously considered getting was the LS300. It'd be a whole lot less painful coming from micro four thirds. I really like this cross-compatibility thing, as well as manufacturers that treat us to a gazillion free firmware updates, like Fuji and Panasonic. Actually, a number of forum members had been imploring me to pick up the GH5 for months, and Andrew's review made me finally cave in. I need another camera about as much as I need a pair of mittens and a scarf.  It reminds me a little of when I used to drive to Chevrolet (where I worked as staff photographer) in my Datsun, and my boss was always trying to pressure me into buying American.

I think this is currently how a lot of people are over the GH5.

4 minutes ago, dbp said:

Pretty much. I respect that it's a really tough balance, especially nowadays where even lower end cameras are getting really good. I mean, how do you make something genuinely 4x better than a GH5 at this point?

Not by putting an EF mount on it and offering less reasons for your existing customer base to upgrade to it thats for sure.

The EVA1 is going to have to rock people's world image wise because for all people talk about it being a different market, they have to remember that the current safe bet in that market is not Panasonic so its going to take something special to bring people from Canon or Sony. They're not doing it with price thats for sure.

[dbp]

13 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

The EVA1 is going to have to rock people's world image wise because for all people talk about it being a different market, they have to remember that the current safe bet in that market is not Panasonic so its going to take something special to bring people from Canon or Sony. They're not doing it with price thats for sure.

Exactly. I think it'll be competent but I have doubts it'll rock people's world. Might be an AF100 all over again. We shall see, I'd love to be wrong.

[EthanAlexander]

The GH5 is a compact sedan with a ferrari engine in it but sometimes you need the whole ferrari. In this case, that means the features and form factor of a real video camera. Against Canon and Sony in the price range, this has dual native ISO, 5.7K sensor for both oversampling and eventually 5.7K raw, 2K up to 240fps, electronic stabilization, and a lighter body.

Having said that, the EF mount really kills the draw for Sony shooters who have been speedboosting or using PL. This is the single biggest drawback they could have easily avoided. 

[no_connection]

That focus assist was interesting, so any other Panasonic cameras have that?

[jonpais]

6 hours ago, EthanAlexander said:

The GH5 is a compact sedan with a ferrari engine in it but sometimes you need the whole ferrari. In this case, that means the features and form factor of a real video camera. Against Canon and Sony in the price range, this has dual native ISO, 5.7K sensor for both oversampling and eventually 5.7K raw, 2K up to 240fps, electronic stabilization, and a lighter body.

Having said that, the EF mount really kills the draw for Sony shooters who have been speedboosting or using PL. This is the single biggest drawback they could have easily avoided. 

Hi Ethan. How could Panasonic have avoided what you consider to be the 'single biggest drawback'? A full frame sensor GH5? Sorry, just not sure I'm understanding you... 

[BTM_Pix]

4 hours ago, jonpais said:

Hi Ethan. How could Panasonic have avoided what you consider to be the 'single biggest drawback'? A full frame sensor GH5? Sorry, just not sure I'm understanding you... 

I think Ethan is referring to the choice of EF mount over M43 mount Jon.

The mount choice makes less and less sense the more I think about it.

The single argument for having the EF mount is that it is a more robust option for professional use.

Considering how many M43 cameras get used in less than ideal circumstances by everyone from amateurs to hobbyists to professionals with all manner of adapters and all manner and weight of lenses hanging off them, you'd expect there to be a ton of anecdotal evidence of the lack of robustness of the M43 mount wouldn't you? 

Balanced against that single argument is a world of flexibility (and upgrade path) that Panasonic have closed off.

Its not like having the M43 mount would stop people using EF lenses on it. All it achieves is stopping people from using them in a better way.

 

[jonpais]

26 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

I think Ethan is referring to the choice of EF mount over M43 mount Jon.

It just makes less and less sense the more I think about it.

The single argument for having the EF mount is that it is a more robust option for professional use.

Considering how many M43 cameras get used in less than ideal circumstances by everyone from amateurs to hobbyists to professionals with all manner of adapters and all manner and weight of lenses hanging off them, you'd expect there to be a ton of anecdotal evidence of the lack of robustness of the M43 mount wouldn't you? 

Balanced against that single argument is a world of flexibility (and upgrade path) that Panasonic have closed off.

Its not like having the M43 mount would stop people using EF lenses on it. All it achieves is stopping people from using them in a better way.

 

I'm in outer space. I just realized I'm responding in the EVA1 thread. Since getting the GH5, my mind is in a daze. Disregard my previous comment.  

[BTM_Pix]

7 hours ago, EthanAlexander said:

The GH5 is a compact sedan with a ferrari engine in it but sometimes you need the whole ferrari. In this case, that means the features and form factor of a real video camera. Against Canon and Sony in the price range, this has dual native ISO, 5.7K sensor for both oversampling and eventually 5.7K raw, 2K up to 240fps, electronic stabilization, and a lighter body.

Having said that, the EF mount really kills the draw for Sony shooters who have been speedboosting or using PL. This is the single biggest drawback they could have easily avoided. 

Absolutely no argument regarding the form factor aspect against the GH5, more about where it sits for potential buyers in the market its priced at and will it have enough for those people to turn their back on the commercial realities of Canon and Sony being a safe bet in the eyes of their clients too.

The AF, EVF and internal RAW (and not external at some future point like the EVA) of the C200 are strong arguments even without their strong position in that sector with other products. Canon's protectionist choice of codec for their recent 'update' could easily be reversed if the EVA gained traction and thats what would concern me. To match the RAW and EVF advantages of the C200 will take probably another £2K of external add ons so Canon could make a laughably easy profit by making the codec a paid upgrade and still be cheaper.

Of course by having that EF mount on it, Panasonic have not only lost the advantage of being able to offer (and profit from) a huge range of very decent M43 lenses but can now only have the same lenses as Canon but with far, far less effective AF.

I'm sort of kind of maybe possibly if I sell some stuff in the market for one of the two of them but its a tricky call so I think I might go to the IBC and have a look at them.

And then buy a GH5  

[Emanuel]

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

Absolutely no argument regarding the form factor aspect against the GH5, more about where it sits for potential buyers in the market its priced at and will it have enough for those people to turn their back on the commercial realities of Canon and Sony being a safe bet in the eyes of their clients too.

The AF, EVF and internal RAW (and not external at some future point like the EVA) of the C200 are strong arguments even without their strong position in that sector with other products. Canon's protectionist choice of codec for their recent 'update' could easily be reversed if the EVA gained traction and thats what would concern me. To match the RAW and EVF advantages of the C200 will take probably another £2K of external add ons so Canon could make a laughably easy profit by making the codec a paid upgrade and still be cheaper.

Of course by having that EF mount on it, Panasonic have not only lost the advantage of being able to offer (and profit from) a huge range of very decent M43 lenses but can now only have the same lenses as Canon but with far, far less effective AF.

I'm sort of kind of maybe possibly if I sell some stuff in the market for one of the two of them but its a tricky call so I think I might go to the IBC and have a look at them.

And then buy a GH5  

LOL ;-)

[TwoScoops]

Hopefully it fails drastically and is 1/3 price on the used market soon. 

[EthanAlexander]

5 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Absolutely no argument regarding the form factor aspect against the GH5, more about where it sits for potential buyers in the market its priced at and will it have enough for those people to turn their back on the commercial realities of Canon and Sony being a safe bet in the eyes of their clients too.

You're definitely right that canon and sony are safer bets, especially in the eyes of clients. But those things change, slowly. It wasn't long ago that professionals wouldn't be caught dead with a tiny mirrorless panasonic but look how that's changing

I can actually see a bunch of people buying the C200 over this, then getting frustrated with the raw workflow and trading for the EVA because it similarly has an EF mount and a touch screen. Maybe that was their plan all along lol!

I really think sony shooters will wait for the FS7III or FS5II with some sort of DPAF tech and oversampled sensors. I know I will.

[Fritz Pierre]

+1 on the mistake, on the EF mount...re IQ, I suspect it will overwhelm, not underwhelm at the price point....Panasonic is upping the game in IQ on ALL  their cameras and the competition?....well, what competition?...BMD is their only competition but without the ergonomics....when greed gets in the way of innovation, companies should rightly get caught with their pants round their ankles?

[omega1978]

first EVA footage ?

now offline

[IronFilm]

On 9/1/2017 at 2:54 PM, EthanAlexander said:

Having said that, the EF mount really kills the draw for Sony shooters who have been speedboosting or using PL. This is the single biggest drawback they could have easily avoided. 

I'm so frustrated with Panasonic that they didn't choose to use a locking MFT mount!!

Or at least a sub-PL mount like Kinefinity does. 

http://ironfilm.co.nz/what-if-kinefinitys-kinemount-became-a-universal-cinema-mount/

On 9/1/2017 at 10:12 PM, BTM_Pix said:

I think Ethan is referring to the choice of EF mount over M43 mount Jon.

The mount choice makes less and less sense the more I think about it.

The single argument for having the EF mount is that it is a more robust option for professional use.

Considering how many M43 cameras get used in less than ideal circumstances by everyone from amateurs to hobbyists to professionals with all manner of adapters and all manner and weight of lenses hanging off them, you'd expect there to be a ton of anecdotal evidence of the lack of robustness of the M43 mount wouldn't you? 

Balanced against that single argument is a world of flexibility (and upgrade path) that Panasonic have closed off.

Its not like having the M43 mount would stop people using EF lenses on it. All it achieves is stopping people from using them in a better way.

 

Exactly, and you could still beef up the MFT mount while keeping it MFT! And you could make a positive locking MFT mount. Making it even more desirable for professional users. 

[Fritz Pierre]

Yes on DVXUser the arguments ranged from people will misunderstand the M4/3 mount and gripe about it, when using m4/3s lenses, to professionals won't want to bother with adapters...it's all nonsense though...professionals want to use the lenses they value and that may not include any EF mounts....and anyone stupid enough buying a $7500 camera, and not understanding lens/sensor coverage, deserve whatever they get!...I think in reality it was a bad decision, made a long time ago, that they are now trying to justify/defend...it is the number one gripe about this camera....that said, I have no doubt IQwill be incredible....I just finished watching the first season of Ozark on Netflix...shot on the Varicam....and the shots they managed with the  800-5000 ISO are just incredible...this is the next Cine Camera IMO...it is just taking time....Arri has reigned for a long time after all...as for the EVA....the GH5 will do very nicely alongside the Varicam....Panasonic is on it's way, and it's not turning back!