LG V30 HDR Camera

[DBounce]

7 hours ago, JurijTurnsek said:

So the iPhone X has been leaked to feature the following video specs:

No word on 720p480, but at least HEVC will have to be broadly supported now. I believe this is the last Android flagship generation without 4K60p, however I have no idea if the Snapdragon 835 simply can't handle it or there is any other bottleneck. Anyway, Samsung S9 will have to have it.

Are those MBPS? If so those are pretty hefty files.

The Snapdragon 821 can capture 4K UHD @ 60fps in 10-bit H.264, as can the 835... But neither can do this in Hevc. 

[DBounce]

Here is the confirmation that the camera in the LG V30 is indeed 10bit... 

 

[sanveer]

4 hours ago, DBounce said:

Here is the confirmation that the camera in the LG V30 is indeed 10bit... 

 

I saw that teardown video yesterday/last night.

10-bit Processor for photo he said (not sure he said 10-bit processor for video). 

[DBounce]

2 hours ago, sanveer said:

I saw that teardown video yesterday/last night.

10-bit Processor for photo he said (not sure he said 10-bit processor for video). 

He did not say photos, he said capture, and then went on to specifically mention the cinema video mode, saying it can output 211% more colors than the average smartphone. Rewatch it.

[sanveer]

On 20/09/2017 at 9:38 AM, DBounce said:

He did not say photos, he said capture, and then went on to specifically mention the cinema video mode, saying it can output 211% more colors than the average smartphone. Rewatch it.

You're actually right. LG has mentioned 10-bit so many times, and wouldn't show off about 10-bit photo on a smartphone (it would be embarassing). The only question is whether the 50mbps video bitrate (correct me if I am wrong about the bitrate), would be sufficient for 10-bit video.

I hope a 100-200 mbps video firmware update is on the way. I believe it does H265/HEVC, so it should be suffient for 10-bit video (it may be in GH5 territory in some ways).

Hoping LG add a firmware. And also improves the super jittery video with better stabilization. It may actually become the first serious smartphone for filmmaking. 

[Andrew Reid]

The teardown video -

You can't look at a sensor like that and tell what the bit depth is. Where is his info coming from? Actual LG white paper for the camera module? Or advertising department?

Most sensors are 12bit or 14bit by the way

I don't even think 8bit sensors exist in phones. They are all 12bit. Correct me if I'm wrong (with proof!)

It's the processing that determines the final bit-depth to be either 8bit or 10bit.

When I bypass that and shoot raw on my S8+, the files are not 8bit raw.

The proof will be in the pudding... how does the image look from the phone, and so on.

[sanveer]

TBO I thought about it, and if an H264 originally low Bitrate Canon 5D Mark ii can be hacked for shooting RAW video, 10-bit should be something that can ideally be enabled by a hack on smartphones too. High Bitrate and RAW capture should be the giveaways of such a possibility. 

I guess there must be some worthy hackers who could test this. Though it may require writing code from scratch for the 10-bit video to be enabled. Or someone hacking it with a format that already exists (could something like VP9 also be used to shoot?).

I am sure there is a reasonably large market for something like this. And once people show the benefits of shooting on 10-bit on a  smartphone, more users will join in. 

[DBounce]

 

[sanveer]

3 hours ago, DBounce said:

 

I saw this one on gsmarena.com and the V30 did very well. Unlike the iPhone vs the RED and the Alexa comparisons where the iPhone blew the highlights, had crushed shadows, and had over saturated colours apart from the noise reduction that destroyed all the remaining detail. Also except for the clouds appearing pink or purple in some shots, the V30 grading was admirable.

This is from the Exynos 8890 specifications, which does duty on the Note 8. I am wondering whether it an be pushed for HDR 4k and higher colour depth:

"The Exynos 8895 makes the multimedia experience far more entertaining with the advanced MFC (Multi-Format Codec). It supports recording and playback of video content at a maximum resolution of 4K UHD at 120fps with the latest video codecs, including HEVC(H.265), H.264, and VP9."

http://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/minisite/Exynos/Solution/MobileProcessor/Exynos_9_Series_8895.html

 

VP9 is actually a very good Free Codec (H265 is a poorly priced and ambiguously licenced codec, which is the Main reason for its lack of broader usage. Like a unfair monopoly by the consortium that created it). The Exynos ISP seems way more promising than its Snapdragon version. I am guessing if any processor can pull off 4-2-2, it will be the Exynos 8890.

 

Where are the Magic Lantern guys when you need them?  ;-) 

[DBounce]

https://***URL not allowed***/lgs-v30-smartphone-10-bit-color-lg-cine-log-video-in-a-phone/

[Emanuel]

With competitors:

https://www.gsmarena.com/vidcmp.php3?idType=3&idPhone1=8854&idPhone2=8712&idPhone3=8505

 

 

[Don Kotlos]

[sanveer]

On 14/10/2017 at 8:10 PM, DBounce said:

https://***URL not allowed***/lgs-v30-smartphone-10-bit-color-lg-cine-log-video-in-a-phone/

Incorrectly Researched Article. Seems shoddy heresay at best. I read an article, much after this somewhere, where LG Specifically CONFIRMED that the Log, like all other video is limited to 8-bit 4-2-0. 

 

6 hours ago, Don Kotlos said:

I wonder why it appears so soft. Is sharpness fialled down to 0 or -5 (Log)? 

[DBounce]

4 hours ago, sanveer said:

I read an article, much after this somewhere, where LG Specifically CONFIRMED that the Log, like all other video is limited to 8-bit 4-2-0. 

 

I wonder why it appears so soft. Is sharpness fialled down to 0 or -5 (Log)? 

And where is the link to that article?

[Don Kotlos]

4 hours ago, sanveer said:

I wonder why it appears so soft. Is sharpness fialled down to 0 or -5 (Log)? 

Noise + excessive noise reduction my guess. 

That was the low light shot from here: https://www.gsmarena.com/vidcmp.php3?idType=5&idPhone1=8573&idPhone2=8712&idPhone3=8733

But the good light image does not look much better, V30 is full of compression artifacts, so even if it is recording 10bit it is worse than many 8bit phones. 

[sanveer]

4 hours ago, DBounce said:

And where is the link to that article?

Sorry, my bad:

https://www.androidpit.com/in-depth-lg-v30-perfect-video-smartphone

Read the portion that says, "LG’s Korean camera specialists confirmed with us that the LG V30 takes log videos specifically in 8-bit 4:2:0. Am I just about to lose you?".

4 hours ago, Don Kotlos said:

Noise + excessive noise reduction my guess. 

That was the low light shot from here: https://www.gsmarena.com/vidcmp.php3?idType=5&idPhone1=8573&idPhone2=8712&idPhone3=8733

But the good light image does not look much better, V30 is full of compression artifacts, so even if it is recording 10bit it is worse than many 8bit phones. 

Yes, I noticed in many test videos online that the Dynamic Range is noticeably lesser than other flagship, and that the stabilization is also disappointing. Very disappointing indeed. 

[tomekk]

On 21/09/2017 at 4:35 PM, Andrew Reid said:

The teardown video -

You can't look at a sensor like that and tell what the bit depth is. Where is his info coming from? Actual LG white paper for the camera module? Or advertising department?

Most sensors are 12bit or 14bit by the way

I don't even think 8bit sensors exist in phones. They are all 12bit. Correct me if I'm wrong (with proof!)

It's the processing that determines the final bit-depth to be either 8bit or 10bit.

When I bypass that and shoot raw on my S8+, the files are not 8bit raw.

The proof will be in the pudding... how does the image look from the phone, and so on.

1

Sony's Exmor RS sensors are limited to 10 bits and have been for quite some time, AFAIR. According to Wikipedia this sensor is used in LG V30 http://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/products_en/IS/sensor1/img/products/ProductBrief_IMX351_20171109.pdf

LG is not giving us all the features the sensor is capable of (30fps - full res, 60fps - 4k2k, 240fps - FHD...), but check out video output section: RAW10/8, COMP 8. The output is limited to 10 bit RAW (likely due to the A/D converter being 10 bit so it would be a hardware limitation). I hope they will put higher bit depth A/D converters in the future, though!

LG-Cine LOG is probably computed from 10 bit raw output and this is as close as we can get to raw... officially. Keep in mind conversion is done by the phone. 

Another interesting thing is SME-HDR but all Sony says about it is: "The technology sets two different exposure conditions during shooting and seamlessly performs appropriate image processing to generate optimal images with a wide dynamic range.  https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/201208/12-107E/. This was introduced back in 2014.  Interestingly, hasn't been turned on in LG V30? This would be done by the Sony's chip itself.