Kinemini 4k – whats the story?

[rokkimort]

I'm looking at specs and they are looking pretty good, so I wanted to scout the prices, and only found new ones for sale in Germany for 6k euro+. Ebay search through sold listings does not show anything as well, so I'm wondering if these cameras are still a valid purchase? Don't they make them anymore? I was expecting to see used ones below 4k, but there are simply none. Does anyone have an idea why?

[zerocool22]

I don't think they are getting made anymore now that there is TERRA 6K, 5K and now even 4K. Which also makes a lot more sense. Only problem is that they are a Chinese company with crappy communication and support.

[rokkimort]

On 9/6/2017 at 4:18 PM, zerocool22 said:

I don't think they are getting made anymore now that there is TERRA 6K, 5K and now even 4K. Which also makes a lot more sense. Only problem is that they are a Chinese company with crappy communication and support.

It still seems like it could be a viable purchase for indie work, if priced accordingly.

[IronFilm]

On 9/6/2017 at 10:19 PM, rokkimort said:

I'm looking at specs and they are looking pretty good, so I wanted to scout the prices, and only found new ones for sale in Germany for 6k euro+. Ebay search through sold listings does not show anything as well, so I'm wondering if these cameras are still a valid purchase? Don't they make them anymore? I was expecting to see used ones below 4k, but there are simply none. Does anyone have an idea why?

Outside China there are not too many Kinefinity bodies in existence. 

So you will have a tough search on your hands if you want to pick one up secondhand. 

There is however one KineMAX 6K on eBay right now (saw it got listed just a couple of days ago, as I keep a saved eBay search for them, so I get automatic emails), something like $5K ish I think it was?!

Of more relevance perhaps to you, is just a few days back Kinefinity announced a new Terra 4K camera!! :-o So that is the camera I'd suggest you'd keep a keen eye on watching its developments leading up to its release later this year. (will basically be kinda like a RED Raven, but at a heaps lower price, and a better body)

[Phil A]

24 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Of more relevance perhaps to you, is just a few days back Kinefinity announced a new Terra 4K camera!! :-o So that is the camera I'd suggest you'd keep a keen eye on watching its developments leading up to its release later this year. (will basically be kinda like a RED Raven, but at a heaps lower price, and a better body)

That was a rather silent announcement. And it has a 1.85 crop, so slightly smaller sensor than s35 / APS-C. At US $3,999, it probably has to be rather good in first reviews to be a new, better alternative to the KineMini 4k or the BMD  Production Camera 4k.

I think they lost all hope to enter "western" markets when they completely dropped the ball on their Terra 5k, making their reputation even worse. They announced it April 2016, had some prototype thing this April but I'd bet we still won't see it in April 2018. That actually breaks my heart because the Terra 5k was the only dedicated video camera I was interested in so far (we can easily ignore the Craft camera that never made it out of render stage), seeing the form factor with the hand grip.

[IronFilm]

20 hours ago, Phil A said:

And it has a 1.85 crop, so slightly smaller sensor than s35 / APS-C

Which is the same more or less as the RED Raven.

HOWEVER..... the Kinefinity Terra is massively better than the RED Raven in this instance, because unlike the Raven the Terra has a MFT mount option. Thus it is no more a negative than it was with say the GH2 (and it isn't a negative really! Just look at the feature film Upstream Color, overuse of shallow DoF even! & shot on a GH2).

 

20 hours ago, Phil A said:

At US $3,999, it probably has to be rather good in first reviews to be a new, better alternative to the KineMini 4k or the BMD  Production Camera 4k.

It is already better than the KineMini 4K, being a newer model and a much smaller form factor.

And it is a bit of a joke to compare it with the BMPC4K. It will be way ahead of the BMPC4K for sure.

[Mattias Burling]

I have to be honest here. There is always alot of talk about how these cameras are way better than that camera etc. But never any footage. Never any reviews. Never any first hand experience.

Where is this certainty that its so good coming from? Who is the source?

I remember some BS argument when they missed the release date with a year or so. The lack of cameras was said to be because that they couldn't fill orders and all cameras went to the high end Chinese production houses and they didn't have internet or something... give me a break.

I guess Im confused because on this forum their cameras have been brought up in "which camera should I buy threads" as if they've always existed. When in fact they have rarely been for sale at all.

I don't know how many times I've seen the recommendation to buy a "battle tested" camera from them. Well Ive been on that waiting list for almost two years... lol.

I just dont see how this borderline vaporware can be so easy to recommend and compared with so little to no info about using them.

I see about 50 videos on YouTube from recently. On three different models. One or two reviews. And thats from several years. 

Personally I wouldn't take my chanses on this and instead go save with a bigger brand. But that's just me.

[andrgl]

8 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Personally I wouldn't take my chanses on this and instead go save with a bigger brand. But that's just me.

Someone should contact them to let them know that, Mattias, from YouTube, doesn't think Kinefinity is worth it so they can recall their cameras, issue refunds and shut down.

[Don Kotlos]

Every now and then we have this discussion. I think many underestimate how difficult is for a camera company to establish itself and expand in the world market. From what I understand, Terra has been in great demand. There is a HUGE market just in China for it, and maybe I say maybe most buyers there are actually putting their cameras to work instead of just shooting vlogs on youtube.  

Now that being said, if you need a camera that shoots RAW at a low price point now with very good support and you are closer to the US than China, blackmagic Ursa mini might be a better choice. 

In any case, there is plenty of very nice looking Kinefinity footage for the ones that are willing to look:

 

 

[silvertonesx24]

I owned a Kinemini and now own a few KineMax.

The KineMax is a significant upgrade over the Kinemini in every way. Obviously resolution, color science, and usability. The Terra 6K uses the same sensor in a smaller format. Dynamic range in the "golden" mode is insane. My DP (owner of alexa mini) was blown away by our ability to shoot subjects directly against a bright sky.

Cineform Raw >>>>>> every other codec out there. Lossless raw at smaller file sizes than Prores and I can cut 6K raw even on a first gen i7.

The cameras are rock solid. Never an issue. Never a crash. I had one big problem on set once not getting it to recognize the SSD, but that was because I was using 7mm instead of the 9mm SSDs that the slot is built for. Yes you have to deal with crappy Chinese support and sending it back to Bejing to fix anything so if that's not for you, don't even consider them.

Now, cinema cameras will be a pain in the butt if you're 'upgrading' from DSLR, so the GH5 and the 5D come out to shoots way more than the Kinefinity stuff. But that's a different argument.

[mercer]

Unless I hit the lottery or became independently wealthy, I will never buy one, but you cannot deny the image the Kinemini or Terra are capable of...

The colors are just gorgeous.

[IronFilm]

On Saturday, September 09, 2017 at 6:49 PM, Mattias Burling said:

I have to be honest here. There is always alot of talk about how these cameras are way better than that camera etc. But never any footage. Never any reviews. Never any first hand experience.

Because you need to hang out in the Kinefinity Facebook group for that.

Basically is the only place (in English that is, there seem to be places very active in Chinese however) that actively discusses Kinefinity (it almost never comes up on EOSHD, & even less often on many other forums) & has actual Kinefinity owners on it.

[BTM_Pix]

Do you know  @Andrew Reid whether the distributor in Berlin actually have one for demo/rental ?

[IronFilm]

Hopefully they would? As for a long while they were the *ONLY* English speaking distributor for Kinefinity! :-o

[TheRenaissanceMan]

http://www.kinefinity.com/kineteam/kine-linked/?lang=en

[BTM_Pix]

The company from Den Haag on that list should get themselves over to Amsterdam next week and set up in the car park as there doesn't seem to be anyone else showing them as far as I can see !

[tweak]

There's a lot of people in China.

[Liam]

2 hours ago, tweak said:

There's a lot of people in China.

Hundreds

[tweak]

1 hour ago, Liam said:

Hundreds

Just a rumour, not substantiated as far as I've seen.

[Andrew Reid]

On 10/09/2017 at 5:40 PM, BTM_Pix said:

Do you know  @Andrew Reid whether the distributor in Berlin actually have one for demo/rental ?

Quite possibly. I've been out of touch with them for a year or so now.

https://hdvideoshop.com/en/

7 hours ago, tweak said:

There's a lot of people in China.

Sounds like the start of one of Joe's Nofilmschool articles...

"We have always taken pictures with cameras, a camera makes images."