Tascam DR70D and Zoom H5

[Arikhan]

@IronFilm Thanks for sharing your experience and giving advice to an "audio noob"! After taking a closer look (and get some very basic audio education) to the F4/Tascam for one or two days, I will make a definite buy decision...

@BTM_Pix

Quote

[...] just responding as to if it could fill the functionality required [...]

Yes, it seems to fit my needs for an affordable price. The F4 seems to be a much more advanced device, but it's much more expensive too...The final question will be: Do I really need the advanced functionality of the F4 for my usage?

[BTM_Pix]

1 hour ago, Arikhan said:

 

@BTM_Pix

Yes, it seems to fit my needs for an affordable price. The F4 seems to be a much more advanced device, but it's much more expensive too...The final question will be: Do I really need the advanced functionality of the F4 for my usage?

Well...

Whilst Its true that the DR70d fits your usage now and you might not need the extra features of the F4, will that always be the case?

Might you need the extra features further down the line is what you need to consider.

Yes, its a multiple more in terms of cost in relative terms but in absolute terms is it really ?

The £300ish difference is probably something you wouldn't think twice over if it was a camera body or a lens I would imagine.

And if you do need those extra features in the future, how much will you get for the Tascam in part exchange ? About £150 if you're very lucky so you'll have already lost half the difference. When you look at it in those terms - if you will need the extra stuff further down the line and have to buy an F4 - then the real difference in price is only £150.

Against that, you have to look at whether your a better use of your budget right now is to put into better microphones as the old adage of garbage in garbage out is very much in play here. 

In an ideal world you'd have budget for all of it but if you don't then its not exactly like you'd be recording onto an old cassette deck if you went with the Tascam so, for me, I'd go with putting the extra money into whats feeding it as that's where you'll feel the overall benefit more at this time.

Its IBC next week so make sure you keep an eye on that in case someone comes up with a new model before you take the plunge.

In the meantime, here is some viewing for you based on long term usage of a number of different recorders.

 

[Kisaha]

It is not only a matter of "features" and future needs, even the simple things are not so easily achieved by Tascam. Build quality of the 60/70 is terrible. Power options too, flimsy plugs/unstable micro USB power connection. Terrible Menu system, etc

You are going to spend thousands and thousands of euros for 2 lenses (among the dozens you have), and you can't afford 300 more euros for your one and only recorder?!

Pro sound for video productions is extremely expensive, you can't even imagine, the F4 definitely is not among the expensive options, but the money, and choice, is yours!

[Damphousse]

1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

It is not only a matter of "features" and future needs, even the simple things are not so easily achieved by Tascam. Build quality of the 60/70 is terrible. Power options too, flimsy plugs/unstable micro USB power connection. Terrible Menu system, etc

You are going to spend thousands and thousands of euros for 2 lenses (among the dozens you have), and you can't afford 300 more euros for your one and only recorder?!

Pro sound for video productions is extremely expensive, you can't even imagine, the F4 definitely is not among the expensive options, but the money, and choice, is yours!

Uhhh... No.

I own the Tascam 60D MK I.  It's build quality is not "terrible".  Are you playing ice hockey with it?  And the power options are fine.  USB power powers it all day with any quality external phone/tablet battery solution.  I can power my BMPCC and my Tascam off the same external battery pack and get hours of use off of it.

The Zoom F4 seems to be an excellent solution (never owned it).  But it is over 100% more than the Tascam DR_70D.  If you can't get excellent sound out of the Tascam 60D MK I let alone the DR-70D something is wrong with YOU not the equipment.  You can get better work flow and incrementally better sound out of much more expensive equipment but dumping on the Tascam 60D is comical.

BTM_Pix's video opened my eyes.  I was actually going to post it to help people out but he beat me to it.  The sound game is nuanced.  The Tascam 60D doesn't have very much about it that is garbage.  Headphone output is not great.  But if you use the XLR inputs properly you will have a great production.  The digital potentiometers have been highlighted as a weak spot under certain circumstances and the digital limiter is also a weak point.  But for less than a third of the price of a Zoom F4 what do you expect?  And for a lot of people neither is ever an issue.   It just depends on your use case.

Unlike cameras where 4k RAW off a prosumer CMOS looks dramatically different from line skipped 1080p H.264 Canon mush there are precious few people that will be able to tell the difference between competent Tascam 60D and Zoom F4.  Zoom F4 is going to have more flexibility and make your life easier but to use the word "terrible" with the 60D let along the 70D is a bit hyperbolic... Don't you think?

I am not trying to get people to skimp on sound.  Lord knows if money was no object I would roll Sound Devices and be done with it.  But let's be sane.  Tascam 60D ($188) vs Zoom F4 ($649.99)?  Be serious.

[Kisaha]

@Damphousse I am very serious about sound; you seem to be 188$ serious about it, which is not much, if you consider that you can keep, and work with such a device, for the next dozen years at least. You can record on your iPhone these days, from dead cheap to DPA expensive, cheap Tascam's like DR 40 do the job, everything is fine. 

[IronFilm]

9 hours ago, Arikhan said:

Yes, it seems to fit my needs for an affordable price. The F4 seems to be a much more advanced device, but it's much more expensive too...The final question will be: Do I really need the advanced functionality of the F4 for my usage?

If you're  a solo shooter on a tight budget, then probably half the features of the F4 you might not appreciate. 

But if you think in the future there is any chance you might specialise as a location sound recordist, then the Zoom F4 becomes a no brainer choice. 

3 hours ago, Kisaha said:

@Damphousse I am very serious about sound; you seem to be 188$ serious about it, which is not much, if you consider that you can keep, and work with such a device, for the next dozen years at least. You can record on your iPhone these days, from dead cheap to DPA expensive, cheap Tascam's like DR 40 do the job, everything is fine. 

I'm picking up six DPA microphones today! :-o

7 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

The £300ish difference is probably something you wouldn't think twice over if it was a camera body or a lens I would imagine.

 

This.

Sadly this.

People quibble over spending a few hundred for audio gear, yet will drop thousands in a blink of an eye on camera gear and lights.

Makes me sad when I see sets where the entire audio equipment is costing the same as a single lens the camera department has :-/ 
Which often is true in the indie low budget world.

Of course when I show up...  we get the reverse problem! lol
Where my entire audio kit is costing more than what the camera department has. Ha

7 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Its IBC next week so make sure you keep an eye on that in case someone comes up with a new model before you take the plunge.

 

Fingers crossed for a Sound Devices 633 mk2! Or a new Sonosax or Zaxcom. 
Athough it would be better if they don't release anything.... don't think I could afford them this year! :-o
I'll be sticking with my Zoom F4 for a while longer ;-)

4 hours ago, Damphousse said:

I own the Tascam 60D MK I.  It's build quality is not "terrible".  Are you playing ice hockey with it?  And the power options are fine.  USB power powers it all day with any quality external phone/tablet battery solution.  I can power my BMPCC and my Tascam off the same external battery pack and get hours of use off of it.

 

I agree, the Tascam DR60D (I also used to own a DR60D mk1) is not quite the build level of a Sound Devices (or even a Zoom F4), the build quality of the DR60D is still not a big practical concern. If that is all a person can afford, then don't let that factor into holding you back from buying one!

[Arikhan]

12 hours ago, Kisaha said:

You are going to spend thousands and thousands of euros for 2 lenses (among the dozens you have), and you can't afford 300 more euros for your one and only recorder?!

I don't do it voluntarily. Let me explain, it's very simple: Super tele primes 300 / 400 F2.8 stablizied lenses for Nikon/Canon are unrivaled - there is NO third party alternative. No option to consider...You have just to pay the price the manufacturer / seller asks for it...And these lenses are not cheap. For sound recording, there are quite many options and a great competition, giving us users the possibility - depending on personal needs and requirements - to make a choice...
 

6 hours ago, IronFilm said:

But if you think in the future there is any chance you might specialise as a location sound recordist, then the Zoom F4 becomes a no brainer choice. 

Nope. Never. Sound recording is for sure not the area, I will ever specialize in...I admire sound experts and sound designers. If best possible sound needed, just have to hire an expert, someone who knows what he does and beeing knowledgeable and passioned about that. The best I can do, is getting some more advanced education in this area...
 

14 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

The £300ish difference is probably something you wouldn't think twice over if it was a camera body or a lens I would imagine.

Yes, you are right - touché...Probably because sound (aka higher end audio handling),is for me something like pain in the stomach...

I am very stingy too, when buying photo zoom lenses. I don't like them, but I buy them because of realism and necessity (mainly the need for versatility in fast paced shooting situations). Other then buying primes, I simply don't want want to spend too much money for zoom lenses. So when buying photo zooms, I am mostly ready to compromise - not so, when looking for primes. At the end of the day, it's a matter of personal priority setting...

[BTM_Pix]

40 minutes ago, Arikhan said:

 

Yes, you are right - touché...Probably because sound (aka higher end audio handling),is for me something like pain in the stomach...

Sorry, I didn't mean you personally.

I meant all of us

[IronFilm]

17 hours ago, Arikhan said:

I don't do it voluntarily. Let me explain, it's very simple: Super tele primes 300 / 400 F2.8 stablizied lenses for Nikon/Canon are unrivaled - there is NO third party alternative. No option to consider...You have just to pay the price the manufacturer / seller asks for it...And these lenses are not cheap. For sound recording, there are quite many options and a great competition, giving us users the possibility - depending on personal needs and requirements - to make a choice...

Actually it is *exactly* the same when it comes to sound recording.

 

Just like you have Canon/Nikon as the only option, you have Sonosax/Sound Devices/Zaxcom as the *only* option in the sound world (well ok, Aaton Canter as well, but their cheapest makes Sound Devices look dirt cheap!). So if you want that 400mm f2.8 you have to spend the big bucks for a Zaxcom etc

Of course, you could get a Tascam DR70D but that is like settling for a Tamron 70-300mm f/4.0-5.6  instead of a Canon 400mm f2.8

Of course that Tamron might be a perfectly suitable lens for your kids' soccer games. And there is nothing wrong with many people buying a Tamron 70-300mm f/4.0-5.6 if that is right for them. Just like the Tascam DR70D will be the right choice for many people too.

But it is a bit insulting to the Canon 400mm f2.8 to think that Tamron can come anywhere near close to it in performance? Likewise if you do a Tascam DR70D vs Sonosax SX-R4+ comparison. & think they're similar.

 

Anyway, nothing wrong with not picking the Canikon 300/400mm f2.8, & nothing wrong with not going with Sonosax / Zaxcom / Sound Devices.

Just please remember the context here! We're basically discussing what is the best telezoom kit lens will suit your needs best (or maybe something a little different/better, like the Tamron 18-400mm or streeeetching the budget to a secondhand Sigma 100-300mm f4).

[IronFilm]

With the notable exception of the Zoom F8/F4 (and to a lesser extent, the Sound Devices MixPre6).

Which is why we rave on so much about the amazing Zoom F4!!

To give a lens analogy, it would be a bit like if Samyang/Rokinon released a 400mm f2.8 AF OIS lens! Would be very surprising, and out of left field, and would be way less in cost than the competition! (although being a 1st generation product, it would lack the maturity/integration/reputation of the big established players).

[Damphousse]

On 9/10/2017 at 5:31 PM, Kisaha said:

@Damphousse I am very serious about sound; you seem to be 188$ serious about it, which is not much, if you consider that you can keep, and work with such a device, for the next dozen years at least. You can record on your iPhone these days, from dead cheap to DPA expensive, cheap Tascam's like DR 40 do the job, everything is fine. 

Watch BTM_Pix's video from 4:16 in.  They guy doing the review uses a multithousand dollar Sound Devices recorder for his main rig and his opinion of the Tascam 60D's pre amps was they are "EXCELLENT".  If you don't think something that costs $188 doesn't sound good under the right circumstances that is your opinion but I haven't found a single review on the internet that echoes that opinion.

Also the idea that I would keep a Tascam or any recorder that is $600 or less for 12 years is absurd.  Camera bodies are disposable.  12 years ago I didn't even own a DSLR.  The only thing I could imagine keeping for 12 years is a lens or a tripod or a microphone.  You think the iOS app for the Zoom F4 is still going to be up to day in 12 years?!  12 years ago there wasn't even an iOS!  Do you own a time machine and know something we don't?  Recorder tech is advancing rapidly.  Maybe not as fast as cameras but what you can get for the money is changing every year.  The Tascam 60D came out at $350 and EVERYBODY that reviewed it said it was a heck of a deal at that price.  The MK II is now $188 a few short years later and still getting rave reviews.  Exhibit B is the fact earlier this year Sound Devices introduced a prosumer line of recorders/mixers.  The Zoom F4 you so wholeheartedly recommended suffers from one of the same major flaws my 60D does.  It has digital limiters too!  Imagine my surprise.  After your rebuttal I went to do some research just to make sure I wasn't posting BS on the internet and I noticed some clear areas of overlap between the 60D criticism and the Zoom F4 criticism.  A comparably priced Sound Devices unit has analog limiters that are actually functional.  The Zoom F4 is not some future proof device.  Please don't mislead people.  This space is in so much flux right now and so much interesting stuff is coming out you have to be very strategic in your buying decisions.  A good quality Canon L lens?  Yeah that is something you will keep for generations.  A $600 digital recorder?  Please.

The one thing I know in this game is everyone has a different use case.  You should seriously watch BTM_Pix's video.  That guy has a much more sober and well thought out approach.  There are so many options and trade offs you can't just declare if someone is using a Tascam 60D they aren't "serious" about sound.  Same thing happened to me when I balked at paying $1,000 for a BMPCC.  Search the forum.  I got plenty of hate.  Well guess who picked up a BMPCC for $500?  And guess who else was crying?  With so much of this stuff there is no right or wrong answer.

Frankly if anyone is contemplating getting external recording with balanced XLR connectors they should be praised and encouraged not denigrated.  That is light years ahead of onboard sound or your iPhone suggestion.  Depending on our needs and the state of the art we buy, sell, and upgrade.

[IronFilm]

No, we're not saying audio gear will last "forever".
But relative to camera gear, audio gear will last you longer. (which means it can be a relatively better investment)

Your audio recorders will last you longer than the typical camera life cycle, and microphones will last you at least as long as lenses and probably even longer.

I guess my problem is the lack of balance here, how in one thread it is so wrong to spend $1K on audio gear yet on the next thread over it is all ok and normalized to spend $8K on camera gear. 

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Damphousse said:

The Tascam 60D came out at $350 and EVERYBODY that reviewed it said it was a heck of a deal at that price. 

And I'm not denying it is a heck of deal! We are on the same page about that :-) I started out with a Tascam DR60D mk1 (well, had a Zoom H1 for a couple of years before then, but I'm not counting that).

 

But I almost kinda get the impression from reading your post that you regard the DR60D and F4 as being on par with each other??? Which is pretty delusional thinking. Is like trying to tell me a T2i and a C300 are the same as each other because they're both 8bit video cameras. Errr.... what?? They're so much more than that!

Yes, you can do great work with a DR60D just like we have seen in this forum you can also with a T2i when treated carefully and you work to its strengths (and avoid its weaknesses).  But what happens when you move outside that limited range of uses where it shines? The T2i/DR60D will struggle and fail

What I'm striving to see in this forum, is greater balance here between camera and sound. 
So sure if you're using a T2i, then a DR60D is going to be a good match for that. 
But if you're shooting with say a Panasonic GH5, with a nice set of lenses, gimbal, quality tripod, a decent lighting kit, etc  then you shouldn't be using a DR60D at the core of your audio kit! I'd suggest something instead in the range of a DR70D to 633 instead.

 

3 hours ago, Damphousse said:

  A comparably priced Sound Devices unit has analog limiters that are actually functional.

And where is this comparably priced Sound Devices? 
If you mean the MixPre6, it still lacks some of the functions/features of the F8/F4. 
Yet the MixPre6 costs more than the F4. 

And if you mean the MixPre3 (which costs the same as an F4): the one with only 3 ISO tracks, oh hell no The MixPre3 is a way way to crippled machine to seriously consider. (but then again if you really REALLY want that ultra compact size, and CERTAIN you'd never need more than 3 inputs, then maaaaaybe it might make sense. Maybe)

Additionally I find the whole issue of analogue vs digital limiters to be way waaaaay overblown, yes it would be nice if the F4/F8 had anologue limiters too. But it is *not* the big deal most people seem to make it out to be. 

After all many professional recorders use some form of digital limiters, for instance the latest Zaxcom recorders, or the Sound Devices 633 on inputs 4 to 6. 
So rather than just saying blindly something like "all digital limiters are BAD, they're all the same, and are always a dealbreaker to me" you should take a more refined approach to it. (personally I'd rather have Zaxcom's Neverclip technology rather than Sound Device's analogue limiters)

Also we should remember you should NOT be using your limiters hard on every shot. If you are, you're being an idiot, and should turn down your gain. 
Limiters are just there as a last gasp insurance safety measure. 

An even better safety approach (as using limiters of any sort, analogue or digital, is not ideal) is to run a safety track at the same time (which the MixPre6 can't do), to handle the extreme circumstances you might come across. 

Additionally if you need to think about the source before it even hits your recorder, if you're using wireless and it is distorting before it even reaches you then it doesn't matter what kind of limiters you have! Because of these reasons, and others, the whole analogue vs digital limiters thing is a little overblown.

 

3 hours ago, Damphousse said:

  You should seriously watch BTM_Pix's video. 

I watched Curtis Judd's video when it was first uploaded! :-) I'm a big fan of his channel. And I even went back and watched that YT video just now all over again just for the hell of it :-D
But a few points:
1) he isn't a perfect God of knowledge. For instance it seems flawed to me to promote the Zoom H1 + lav as an option when the Tascam DR10 is so much superior for this niche/price range. 
2) he is targeting his YT channel at the low end and/or videographer (not sound recordist). So his remarks need to be remembered within that context

But overall he is pretty ok, & I agree with him more often than not.  He is also a fan of the Zoom F4 too! (even though the F4 hadn't came out yet at the point of that video upload, he still talks positively about the F4 & recommends waiting for its release)

For instance I say (if you've seen my blog post, or even just the comments here on this forum):

No budget: Tascam DR60Dmk2
Ultra Low budget: Tascam DR70D
Low budget / Semi Pro: Zoom F4 / F8
Entry point for pro grade: Sound Devices 633

And yeah, Curtis Judd pretty mentions the same ones and ranks them like that too.

[Damphousse]

12 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I watched Curtis Judd's video when it was first uploaded! :-) I'm a big fan of his channel. And I even went back and watched that YT video just now all over again just for the hell of it :-D
But a few points:
1) he isn't a perfect God of knowledge. For instance it seems flawed to me to promote the Zoom H1 + lav as an option when the Tascam DR10 is so much superior for this niche/price range. 
2) he is targeting his YT channel at the low end and/or videographer (not sound recordist). So his remarks need to be remembered within that context

But overall he is pretty ok, & I agree with him more often than not.  He is also a fan of the Zoom F4 too! (even though the F4 hadn't came out yet at the point of that video upload, he still talks positively about the F4 & recommends waiting for its release)

I agree with you on all that.  I think his point on the Zoom H1 was the size thing.  You can put a lav on it and drop it in the talents pocket.  So it was just a specific niche use.  That was my understanding. And I agree his channel is for the lower end videographer.  It is not oriented to a sound recordist.  I wouldn't even begin to comment on professional sound recordist equipment.

I don't think the Zoom F4 is a bad choice.  I didn't mean to denigrate it.  I was just pushing back at the notion it was something you would buy and keep for 12 years.  I've only looked at sound equipment in depth in the last couple of years and the number of features and options has steadily climbed and the price at least on the low/mid end has fallen.

[Kisaha]

@IronFilm he said it all. 

What DPA mics by the way? It would be nice for the people here to hear for a brand probably know nothing about.

I am in the process of up my game as a soundie, and 4017B and 4018C are really tempting. Other choices are Schoeps Cmit(probably the mini) and the classic hypercardioid, or go to safer waters with 8050/8060 or MKH50/60 (actually MKH50 could have been my preference, but it is the absolutely most expensive in Europe, 1500euros vs 1000 for the 8050).

Neumann KM185 is a good, cheaper, indoors mic, the Audix of Europe probably.

Mics are like lensee, there are some workhorse ones, but usually you need the right one for the job.

[Arikhan]

@Damphousse, @IronFilm, @BTM_Pix, @Kisaha

Thank you guys for your contributions and advice!

On 12.9.2017 at 8:56 AM, IronFilm said:

No budget: Tascam DR60Dmk2
Ultra Low budget: Tascam DR70D
Low budget / Semi Pro: Zoom F4 / F8
Entry point for pro grade: Sound Devices 633

I will now decide between the DR-70D and the Zoom F4 - after comparing the specs to my modest needs, I will have to put my hands on the two devices and proof finally which one of them meets my use case expectations (weight, attachment capabilities, handling, ergonomics, menus, etc.).

That's why I like this forum: A bunch of passioned people sharing their experience and knowledge, so audio newbies like me can get helpful advice.

[IronFilm]

12 hours ago, Damphousse said:

I agree with you on all that.  I think his point on the Zoom H1 was the size thing.  You can put a lav on it and drop it in the talents pocket.  So it was just a specific niche use.  That was my understanding. And I agree his channel is for the lower end videographer.  It is not oriented to a sound recordist.  I wouldn't even begin to comment on professional sound recordist equipment.

My point is even for that niche (small, used with a lav & on a very tight budget) the Zoom H1 is not a good recommendation. The Tascam DR10 is.

 

[IronFilm]

3 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Neumann KM185 is a good, cheaper, indoors mic, the Audix of Europe probably.

Is it that cheap over in Europe? I tent to browse USA stores mostly. 
I'd certainly go for the KM185 then as a mid range mic? If you can get a good price on it. 

3 hours ago, Kisaha said:

What DPA mics by the way? It would be nice for the people here to hear for a brand probably know nothing about.

 

DPA 4061, six of them. 

 

13 hours ago, Damphousse said:

I don't think the Zoom F4 is a bad choice.  I didn't mean to denigrate it.  I was just pushing back at the notion it was something you would buy and keep for 12 years. 

I think maaaaybe Kisaha exaggerated a little in saying twelve years.
But if you say half that? Yeah, six years is very reasonable.
And for some of us? Yup, could be 12yrs! I could certainly see myself still keeping around my Zoom F4 in 12yrs time. Not as my main one of course! (but at my back up to my back up, or as a freebie rental to hand out to upcoming students)

 

[BTM_Pix]

30 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

 

DPA 4061, six of them

 

No wonder you haven't bought a new phone in a while mate

[IronFilm]

 

16 hours ago, Damphousse said:

I don't think the Zoom F4 is a bad choice.  I didn't mean to denigrate it.  I was just pushing back at the notion it was something you would buy and keep for 12 years.  I've only looked at sound equipment in depth in the last couple of years and the number of features and options has steadily climbed and the price at least on the low/mid end has fallen.

Generally speaking audio gear has been moving forward at a slower pace relatively speaking. 

Microphones lasting for decades? (it isn't unusual for people to still be using daily microphones from the 1980's, or even 1970's. Even 1960's microphones get used on occasion) 
Mixers lasting a decade or two. 
Recorders lasting a decade or more. 

To give a personal example, my Sound Devices 552 came out 8 yrs ago (it was revolutionary for its time! First ever mixer with a recorder built in), could I see myself still using it in another 4yrs? Yup, I certainly could see it still getting use now and then. 

Or consider my Lectrosonics (which I'm upgrading to from my much newer Sony UWP-D11 models), they're mostly from the 1990's or 2000's! Yet they're still some of the very best wireless (the biggest ways they're lacking from the latest most expensive gear, is when it comes to size / features / power usage)

 

But still, yes technology does keep on marching forward. I feel when Sound Devices entered the market in the 1990's the did a lot to push things forward and push prices down, especially recently with their 600 series. And in particular their 633, which was groundbreaking for its (relatively) low price and very tiny size yet had so much packed into it! 

However it is the last couple of years which have been breathtaking for folks like ourselves on the lower end, with the release of the Zoom F8 and then the F4. Then two years after the F8 we see Sound Devices respond with their MixPre3/MixPre6 which are kinda sort of similar ish but at least also at a rather low low price too.

[IronFilm]

The big question we have however, is this the new norm or will we be returning to the average.

So will the hectic pace of the last couple of years keep up and will it spread to other areas in location audio?

I suspect the answer is probably no and no. :-/ Sadly. 

Because it really is just in recorders that we've seen so much progress in the low end over the last couple of years. 

But in other areas such as microphones / boom poles / cables / wireless / shock mounts / blimps / etc... technology is moving forward relatively slowly and prices are not coming down radically. (although yes, progress is still happen, look at the new Rycote Cyclone!!). With one key exception: time code boxes, we've also seen some breathtaking advances here over the last couple of years or so.

Now, with recorders, the questions are:

1) are we going to see Tascam / Roland / Behringer (???) / someone else / etc respond with a product of their own?
Unlikely, I wouldn't hold your breath (although I heard rumors Tascam is developing something. And who knows if some wildcard might come in and surprise us!).

2) Will Zoom or Sound Devices release another sub $1K device soon? 
Very doubtful. Sound Devices certainly will not within the next half decade or so, probably even longer. I wasn't expecting the Zoom F4 from Zoom so quickly after the F8, maybe they'll surprise me again?

Personally I'd  rather see Zoom concentrate on improving their little family of recorders they now have of the F4/F8, plenty of firmware updates they could still bring to them. And just generally make the ecosystem around them work better together with the F4/F8. For instance they need to update their Zoom EXH-6 accessory. And work with other companies such as Movie Slate / Time Code Systems to get integration with their products (like Sound Devices has done). Plus releasing a superslot equivalent would be cool too! 

3) Will Zaxcom / Sonosax / Aaton / etc be releasing a sub $1K recorder/mixer as well?
I'd say the odds respectively are: very very unlikely, very very very very very unlikely, and next to impossible. 
Was a massive surprise when Sound Devices did it! Very strongly doubt any of those other similar tier brands will be following along and doing it themselves as well. But who knows, never say never?

So what will be seeing in the future as technology moves forward? Here is my optimistic expectations for happening within the next five years:

We'll see more technology integrated into smaller packages. For example, we had automixing included in the 688, then there was the big update for the 633 when it got Dugan too! :-o Maybe sometime in the coming years there will be a firmware update for the F8 which has this too? One can wish and hope! Another possible example is the amazing new product at NAB this year, the CEDAR DNS2!! Will this also get included into recorders/mixers too just like Dugan has been too? Doubt it will happen soon, not even in the next release of 600 series from Sound Series, but hey maybe in the next generation after that?