Tascam DR70D and Zoom H5

[Bioskop.Inc]

In all this discussion no one has mentioned has even remotely mentioned Marantz, which is a big mistake. People just seem to get a hold of names & think they're the best - Zoom & Tascam are pretty average & that's why they're cheaper. Sure Sound Devices are king, and for a price you get real dependable excellent quality - but they're really for people who earn their bread & butter recording only sound. Marantz are a step down from Sound Devices, but they are worth checking out as a much better alternative to Zoom/Tascam - remember, just because loads of people have them doesn't make them the best, just makes them cheaper.

A Zoom H5 alternative has to be the Marantz PMD661 mk2 or 3 will absolutely shame anything from Zoom period - at £500 it's more expensive, but you'll be glad in the long run. I've been using the MK2 for a while now & it produces great sound - I even use it with my old SD field recorder in order to record the sound digitally, blows me away everytime. You can find 2nd hand one for around £300!

And have noticed that they now do a model for DSLRs similar to the Tascam - Marantz PMD706 for only £300! I have no experience of this model, but if it's anywhere as good as the 661, then it'll be much better than the Tascam.

 

[Kisaha]

I have used Marantz in the past, excellent choice from the Zoom era, but it seems that has stayed behind a bit. Back then we were using Fostex (the big 2 chanell ones writing to hard drives with excellent mic amps or the LTE version, which was full of issues, sadly) and the classic Edirol ones that they too stay behind after the Roland take over.

Neumann is 699euros and Audix 599 in Europe. For that price I would choose Neumann any time. For 499$ (which is the US price for the Audix) I would choose Audix over any other mic (e.g AT). For less I am very pleased with my Oktava, mounted on a blimp has no handling noises.

Sound Devices is doing an opening to the masses recently, both in sound AND image, just do not expect Zaxcom to follow soon.

Tascam on the other side will follow soon, it is not too late for them. I can see a 701 reduction in price and something similar to F4 really soon (in Tascam time!).

What I meant about "12 years" is that I can see someone using a Zoom F4 for so long, 1) because it seems like it is built to last and 2) has most features (and powering options!) that people need from a recorder, being a cameraman or for more specialized sound jobs.

My other "time" argument about sound is the mic I use for more than 100 days per year, my Sennheiser 416. The original designs are from the 70s, and I know people that still using the older ones (with phantom power adaptors). I am using other mics per year, but for run and gun, documentary, harsh environment jobs, I always reaching for my 416. It is not the best, but it is the most battle tested amd reliable. Also, most of the post production guys know what to expect and what they get.

I am getting the Mixpre6 soon, but I will keep DR680 and DR100mkII as back ups, or specialized jobs.

My next mic buy will probably be the MKH50, the oldest of my choices (and biggest and heaviest), but that seems like the best option for my needs.

Sound history is full of such examples.

I tried Cyclone (the first version) and it is no way as good as the original blimps. I put Sennheiser's as the best and classic Rycotte second. Of course there is Cinella, which is easily the best brand, but for double or triple the price!

I remember (and used) the original DPA blimp (it was collapsible) with the first 4017B, amazing design and original idea but not a good performer.

 

[Ty Harper]

7 hours ago, Bioskop.Inc said:

In all this discussion no one has mentioned has even remotely mentioned Marantz, which is a big mistake. People just seem to get a hold of names & think they're the best - Zoom & Tascam are pretty average & that's why they're cheaper. Sure Sound Devices are king, and for a price you get real dependable excellent quality - but they're really for people who earn their bread & butter recording only sound. Marantz are a step down from Sound Devices, but they are worth checking out as a much better alternative to Zoom/Tascam - remember, just because loads of people have them doesn't make them the best, just makes them cheaper.

A Zoom H5 alternative has to be the Marantz PMD661 mk2 or 3 will absolutely shame anything from Zoom period - at £500 it's more expensive, but you'll be glad in the long run. I've been using the MK2 for a while now & it produces great sound - I even use it with my old SD field recorder in order to record the sound digitally, blows me away everytime. You can find 2nd hand one for around £300!

And have noticed that they now do a model for DSLRs similar to the Tascam - Marantz PMD706 for only £300! I have no experience of this model, but if it's anywhere as good as the 661, then it'll be much better than the Tascam.

 

Co-sign on the PMD661s MKI and II (NOT the 620s tho!). As for the MKIII and the newer PMDs, Marantz is owned by a completely different company now, so I'd be wary about recommending anything beyond the PMD661 MKI and MKII until actual tests and real world reviews come out.

The PMD661 is a bit bulky compared to the newer portable recorders but imho it's best bang for buck if sound quality is your priority and you don't need multi-track capabilities. I've seen several go for $300 (even less) this past year alone. And that's in Canadian dollars! 

I was skeptical about the Zoom F4 and F8 at first but I've heard nothing but great things about it lately. The pre-amps are supposed to be pretty good! Which actually makes them an anomaly compared to previous Zoom products (which the Marantz PMD661 would still beat hands down). But they're obviously pointless to compare to anything other than other multi-track recorders like the Sound Devices stuff.  Also at the price they're going for right now, I'd just pay extra for a used Sound Devices recorder.

I'm also hoping people aren't using audio opinions/recommendations from his forum as their primary gauge of what type of portable recorder to buy. That would be as troubling as getting video camera recommends solely from people on Gearslutz. There are sooo many great audio forums out there with amazing tests, comparisons and advice from career people who live, eat, sh*t audio and nothing else. And what's cool is the raw data from the old tests can still be used to compare the older recorders to the newer ones.

Here's a good example of some raw data that still holds up imho: http://www.theatreofnoise.com/2015/03/portable-audio-recorders-2015-update.html

It's broken up into Pocket, Hand held and Shoulder portable recorders. They're listed in order of size NOT overall quality rating. The Marantz PMD661 still holds up pretty well and even though they're referring to the MKII, the original 661 honestly isn't much different (they actually have the same EIN value of 125).

6 hours ago, Kisaha said:

I have used Marantz in the past, excellent choice from the Zoom era, but it seems that has stayed behind a bit. Back then we were using Fostex (the big 2 chanell ones writing to hard drives with excellent mic amps or the LTE version, which was full of issues, sadly) and the classic Edirol ones that they too stay behind after the Roland take over.

Neumann is 699euros and Audix 599 in Europe. For that price I would choose Neumann any time. For 499$ (which is the US price for the Audix) I would choose Audix over any other mic (e.g AT). For less I am very pleased with my Oktava, mounted on a blimp has no handling noises.

Sound Devices is doing an opening to the masses recently, both in sound AND image, just do not expect Zaxcom to follow soon.

Tascam on the other side will follow soon, it is not too late for them. I can see a 701 reduction in price and something similar to F4 really soon (in Tascam time!).

What I meant about "12 years" is that I can see someone using a Zoom F4 for so long, 1) because it seems like it is built to last and 2) has most features (and powering options!) that people need from a recorder, being a cameraman or for more specialized sound jobs.

My other "time" argument about sound is the mic I use for more than 100 days per year, my Sennheiser 416. The original designs are from the 70s, and I know people that still using the older ones (with phantom power adaptors). I am using other mics per year, but for run and gun, documentary, harsh environment jobs, I always reaching for my 416. It is not the best, but it is the most battle tested amd reliable. Also, most of the post production guys know what to expect and what they get.

I am getting the Mixpre6 soon, but I will keep DR680 and DR100mkII as back ups, or specialized jobs.

My next mic buy will probably be the MKH50, the oldest of my choices (and biggest and heaviest), but that seems like the best option for my needs.

Sound history is full of such examples.

I tried Cyclone (the first version) and it is no way as good as the original blimps. I put Sennheiser's as the best and classic Rycotte second. Of course there is Cinella, which is easily the best brand, but for double or triple the price!

I remember (and used) the original DPA blimp (it was collapsible) with the first 4017B, amazing design and original idea but not a good performer.

 

Funny enough I learned that lesson about old blimps just today. Was looking at some older Rycote blimps that were going for reasonable prices and after doing some research realized why I should just save up for one of the newer modular ones. 

[IronFilm]

1 hour ago, Ty Harper said:

I was skeptical about the Zoom F4 and F8 at first but I've heard nothing but great things about it lately.

I was quite skeptical beforehand too, also had never been a great fan of any Zoom product beforehand (didn't help either I'd just got a Tascam DR680 just before the F8 came out!).
 

1 hour ago, Ty Harper said:

But they're obviously pointless to compare to anything other than other multi-track recorders like the Sound Devices stuff.  Also at the price they're going for right now, I'd just pay extra for a used Sound Devices recorder.

What used Sound Devices gear??? 
You either need to go for something very old like a 744 or 552 (and you'd still be buy double or triple what a F8 is! And even more than an F4). 
If you're looking at something more modern like a 688 or 633, they're almost impossible to find easily secondhand, and when they do appear they disappear very quickly and only at a very small discount to buying new (thus you're still spending thousands more than an F8 would cost). 

If Sound Devices depreciated at the same rate as used cameras, and had as many easily to be found on the secondhand market as there are cameras, then I'd agree it makes sense to go secondhand for a Sound Devices.

1 hour ago, Ty Harper said:

 

I'm also hoping people aren't using audio opinions/recommendations from his forum as their primary gauge of what type of portable recorder to buy. That would be as troubling as getting video camera recommends solely from people on Gearslutz. There are sooo many great audio forums out there with amazing tests, comparisons and advice from career people who live, eat, sh*t audio and nothing else

Actually their are not heaps and heaps of great audio forums out there when it comes to location sound recordist's needs. 

Those general audio forums have users whose needs and wants are so far off the mark from what a location sound recordist experiences that getting advice from there can be just as bad as getting it from video forums!! But yes, you can find useful info their if you remember they're seeing (hearing!) things from a totally different perspective than yourself! Thus take everything they say with one big grain of salt! Even so, I enjoy reading them and hanging out there for what crumbs of relevant info you can pick up.

However in the end, jwsoundgroup is the *ONLY* forum dedicated to location sound recordist (since my shift in focus to sound, I now spend more time there than on EOSHD! Sorry :-/ ). But the environment there to newbie/hobbyist sound recordists is very hostile. A thread like this about DR70D vs H5 would run a high risk of just being mercilessly ripped into.

So in the end, the amount of info there is for the newbie/hobbyist/semi-pro location sound recordist is somewhat limited and scattered (one of the reasons why I started up my youtube channel to vblog on this topic, to encourage more discussion of it, and help further spread more good info on this).

 

[IronFilm]

7 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Neumann is 699euros and Audix 599 in Europe. For that price I would choose Neumann any time. For 499$ (which is the US price for the Audix) I would choose Audix over any other mic (e.g AT). For less I am very pleased with my Oktava, mounted on a blimp has no handling noises.

 

Agreed. Except, why have you put an Oktava in blimp? Its best usage is usually indoors. What kind of windy indoor location are you using? :-o

Personally I use my Oktava MK012 HC with this (plus just a small foam softie):
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/554999-REG/Rycote_041107_INV_7_InVision_Indoor_Microphone.html

7 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Sound Devices is doing an opening to the masses recently, both in sound AND image, just do not expect Zaxcom to follow soon.

True true, I reckon their range PIX-E5 etc camera recorders helped further bring 4K recording to the masses as is kinda similar priced to Atomos ones. (PIX-E5 is still the the smallest 4K recorder/monitor on the market!)

7 hours ago, Kisaha said:

I am getting the Mixpre6 soon, but I will keep DR680 and DR100mkII as back ups, or specialized jobs.

Not the F4?? (or F8?)

Until someone makes a 3.5mm TC (or BNC) to HDMI adapter cable/box then the MixPre6 has zero appeal to me. (and even then, I'd still not bother as being an existing owner of an F4 it would be a mostly sideways movement for me. I'd rather move on up! To a 633, or even 688. Or from one of the other big competitors like a Zaxcom Nomad 12 or Sonosax SX-R4+)

7 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Tascam on the other side will follow soon, it is not too late for them. I can see a 701 reduction in price and something similar to F4 really soon (in Tascam time!).

Yes, out of all the other companies who might respond to the F4/F8/MixPre6, I think Tascam is the most likely one. But also, it wouldn't be surprising to me if they don't. Could go either way.

[Ty Harper]

18 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

I was quite skeptical beforehand too, also had never been a great fan of any Zoom product beforehand (didn't help either I'd just got a Tascam DR680 just before the F8 came out!).
 

What used Sound Devices gear??? 
You either need to go for something very old like a 744 or 552 (and you'd still be buy double or triple what a F8 is! And even more than an F4). 
If you're looking at something more modern like a 688 or 633, they're almost impossible to find easily secondhand, and when they do appear they disappear very quickly and only at a very small discount to buying new (thus you're still spending thousands more than an F8 would cost). 

If Sound Devices depreciated at the same rate as used cameras, and had as many easily to be found on the secondhand market as there are cameras, then I'd agree it makes sense to go secondhand for a Sound Devices.

Actually their are not heaps and heaps of great audio forums out there when it comes to location sound recordist's needs. 

Those general audio forums have users whose needs and wants are so far off the mark from what a location sound recordist experiences that getting advice from there can be just as bad as getting it from video forums!! But yes, you can find useful info their if you remember they're seeing (hearing!) things from a totally different perspective than yourself! Thus take everything they say with one big grain of salt! Even so, I enjoy reading them and hanging out there for what crumbs of relevant info you can pick up.

However in the end, jwsoundgroup is the *ONLY* forum dedicated to location sound recordist (since my shift in focus to sound, I now spend more time there than on EOSHD! Sorry :-/ ). But the environment there to newbie/hobbyist sound recordists is very hostile. A thread like this about DR70D vs H5 would run a high risk of just being mercilessly ripped into.

So in the end, the amount of info there is for the newbie/hobbyist/semi-pro location sound recordist is somewhat limited and scattered (one of the reasons why I started up my youtube channel to vblog on this topic, to encourage more discussion of it, and help further spread more good info on this).

 

Yes definitely the 744! And as I said, more expensive, but from a tried, tested and true company when it comes to sound quality. 

As far as the # of quality audio forums, I dunno, when I was starting out it definitely felt like I was stumbling on a ton of great, mostly obscure, blogs and forums with old threads that had a lot of great information. But of course you had to do a lot of scrolling and due diligence as far as figuring out who/what opinion to trust, but I loved it! It was like digging for old records! Also, I've had no issues with hostility at all (been scouring these internets for over a decade now), mostly because I was always mindful of other people's time, and comfortable just digging and researching and comparing on my own mostly.

I think when it comes to the hostility some show towards newbies/hobbyist/etc (which I see quite a bit on the Magic Lantern forums) part of the problem might be that the first impulse for some people is to ask (and implicitly expect) other people to exert unnecessary energy typing out answers to questions already answered and typed out, many, many times before. I think in most cases, unless a question is about a topic or area of information that is brand new and fairly unchartered, the search engine should probably be every person's first option. 

[IronFilm]

24 minutes ago, Ty Harper said:

Yes definitely the 744! And as I said, more expensive, but from a tried, tested and true company when it comes to sound quality. 

 

That is around double the price, and is less easy to use than an F4 (or F8) & is less inputs. You really need to pair it with a mixer front end, which further drives up the cost and weight.

24 minutes ago, Ty Harper said:

Also, I've had no issues with hostility at all (been scouring these internets for over a decade now), mostly because I was always mindful of other people's time, and comfortable just digging and researching and comparing on my own mostly.

Yeah I'm pretty calm and chill, is water off a duck's back for me.
But the hostility (to n00bs) on pro location sound forums is quite unlike other forums, and it also means you're not likely to get constructive answers instead of just flaming. 

24 minutes ago, Ty Harper said:

the search engine should probably be every person's first option. 

I love google! :-D

[Arikhan]

@IronFilm

Please consider, English in not my first language, so there are times I can not exactly explain my needs (lack of proper terminology, etc.)...Yesterday I just visited a German audio recording studio, asking for advice. As the guys hadn't too much time yesterday, I resolved only one of my two problems: The need for an external preamp to bypass DSLRs internal preamp.

First problem: Which preamp to buy and use?
So the guys do advisory for more Run & Gun type shooters and they recommended me, to buy and use the Beachtek DXA-MICRO PRO Audio Adapter. They say, it's best bang for the buck, when recording audio in the camera. And that's what I need it for: a small, portable device (usable for mobile shooting / one man band scenario), helping to improve my sound quality. I had one DSLR with me, and they demonstrated immediately a BIG difference (using external Beachtek preamp vs. using camera preamp) in sound quality. For a newbie like me, it was quite impressive...Though they said, it might exist some cameras, where the difference might be not be such obvious....

Second problem: Which recorder?
So now I will write down my use cases and requirements and will get in the next days the occasion to walk in their studio and hear and discuss the buy of an recorder. As you've recommended, I suggested the choice between DR-70D and Zoom H4...The guys are quite experienced and helpful, so I hope to get a clear view on a comparative view of facts...

[Bioskop.Inc]

8 hours ago, Ty Harper said:

Co-sign on the PMD661s MKI and II (NOT the 620s tho!). As for the MKIII and the newer PMDs, Marantz is owned by a completely different company now, so I'd be wary about recommending anything beyond the PMD661 MKI and MKII until actual tests and real world reviews come out.

The PMD661 is a bit bulky compared to the newer portable recorders but imho it's best bang for buck if sound quality is your priority and you don't need multi-track capabilities. I've seen several go for $300 (even less) this past year alone. And that's in Canadian dollars! 

I was skeptical about the Zoom F4 and F8 at first but I've heard nothing but great things about it lately. The pre-amps are supposed to be pretty good! Which actually makes them an anomaly compared to previous Zoom products (which the Marantz PMD661 would still beat hands down). But they're obviously pointless to compare to anything other than other multi-track recorders like the Sound Devices stuff.  Also at the price they're going for right now, I'd just pay extra for a used Sound Devices recorder.

I'm also hoping people aren't using audio opinions/recommendations from his forum as their primary gauge of what type of portable recorder to buy. That would be as troubling as getting video camera recommends solely from people on Gearslutz. There are sooo many great audio forums out there with amazing tests, comparisons and advice from career people who live, eat, sh*t audio and nothing else. And what's cool is the raw data from the old tests can still be used to compare the older recorders to the newer ones.

Here's a good example of some raw data that still holds up imho: http://www.theatreofnoise.com/2015/03/portable-audio-recorders-2015-update.html

I've got the PMD661 MK2 & had no idea that Marantz had been sold - there's a surprise! If you can find a MK2 with the pre-amp upgrade then buy it!

Personally, I still use a Field Mixer (no recording features) that either plugs straight into the camera or into the 661.

But as someone else has said here, there are a load of vintage/used mics to buy & no one really seems interested that much - people here will buy vintage lenses & then go out to buy a brand new mic! New isn't always better & the same should go for some of the field mixers for sale - just because they don't have a record feature doesn't make them obsolete.

But as has been said above, don't use this forum as a measure - you'll notice very few people replied to the OP.

 

[IronFilm]

3 hours ago, Arikhan said:

@IronFilm

Please consider, English in not my first language, so there are times I can not exactly explain my needs (lack of proper terminology, etc.)...Yesterday I just visited a German audio recording studio, asking for advice. As the guys hadn't too much time yesterday, I resolved only one of my two problems: The need for an external preamp to bypass DSLRs internal preamp.

First problem: Which preamp to buy and use?
So the guys do advisory for more Run & Gun type shooters and they recommended me, to buy and use the Beachtek DXA-MICRO PRO Audio Adapter. They say, it's best bang for the buck, when recording audio in the camera. And that's what I need it for: a small, portable device (usable for mobile shooting / one man band scenario), helping to improve my sound quality. I had one DSLR with me, and they demonstrated immediately a BIG difference (using external Beachtek preamp vs. using camera preamp) in sound quality. For a newbie like me, it was quite impressive...Though they said, it might exist some cameras, where the difference might be not be such obvious....

What camera were they demonstrating with? As yeah, some are really bad. 

Anyway, don't bother with one of those under camera pre amps like the Beachtek. I reckon the price of them is so "high" (well, they're not, but relatively speaking....) and the DR60Dmk2/DR70D is so dirt dirt CHEAP, that you're better off getting that instead! :-D

As yes, you can just use those Tascams exactly the same way, not even recording with them, but just for their "good" (relatively speaking, certainly good relative to Beachtek!) pre amps and mixing functions to feed into your camera (which will have auto gain turned off, and manual gain turned way down).

3 hours ago, Arikhan said:

Second problem: Which recorder?
So now I will write down my use cases and requirements and will get in the next days the occasion to walk in their studio and hear and discuss the buy of an recorder. As you've recommended, I suggested the choice between DR-70D and Zoom H4...

Nooooooooo..... Not the Zoom H4! Not the H4n either. As for the H4n Pro? Meh. 

Tascam DR60Dmk2 or Tascam DR70D or Zoom F4 is the three I recommend you look at the most closely. And which one you go for just depends entirely on your budget/needs/want.

3 hours ago, Arikhan said:

..The guys are quite experienced and helpful, so I hope to get a clear view on a comparative view of facts...

Was this a retail store? My experience with retail store workers at camera or audio stores has generally always been they have very very very very very very very poor knowledge about the products. 

Or was this a recording studio such as for music and such? Then their experiences are totally different to your needs! It is like asking a swimmer what bicycle should you buy to race on the track. 

2 hours ago, Bioskop.Inc said:

But as has been said above, don't use this forum as a measure - you'll notice very few people replied to the OP.

 

Like all the threads in this forum, we get sidetracked easily! ;-) 

[Arikhan]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

Nooooooooo..... Not the Zoom H4! Not the H4n either. As for the H4n Pro? Meh.

Sorry....I meant the Zoom F4 and not the H4...Absolutely your recommendation.

 

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

What camera were they demonstrating with? As yeah, some are really bad. 

For DSLR "handheld shots" (only minimal rigging with cage + mic) I use the NX1, the Nikon D500, in 2-4 weeks probably the D850, sometimes the Pana FZ1000....

When using dedicated camcorders like the Pana HC-X1 for "quick shots", I don't need a recorder, as the camera does very good (for my needs) audio internally.

Testing was done with the FZ1000: A. Recording with Sennheiser MKE 400 and B. MKE 400 + Beachtek + FZ1000. BIG differences, even for an audio wise uneducated newbie like me.

PLEASE CONSIDER: The DR-70D / Zoom F4 are too big for use them on a quick (handheld) shot, only as preamp...That's why I'd like to buy some kind of a "mini preamp" (NO need to record for this device, only preamp needed) - quick handheld shots...

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

Was this a retail store? My experience with retail store workers at camera or audio stores has generally always been they have very very very very very very very poor knowledge about the products. 

Or was this a recording studio such as for music and such?

No, simply a small (2 guys working full time there) audio studio, doing sound recording for film / documentary and sometimes for music production...A journalist colleague recommended them to me...They don't want to sell me anything and they know my requirements, even accepting the fact, I don't need any higher end gear...

They were very nice and helpful and explained me quite a lot...

[IronFilm]

7 hours ago, Arikhan said:

Sorry....I meant the Zoom F4 and not the H4...Absolutely your recommendation.

Good! :-)

 

7 hours ago, Arikhan said:

PLEASE CONSIDER: The DR-70D / Zoom F4 are too big for use them on a quick (handheld) shot, only as preamp...That's why I'd like to buy some kind of a "mini preamp" (NO need to record for this device, only preamp needed) - quick handheld shots...

Even the DR60Dmk2 or MixPre3 is too big?! The likes of the Beachtek is hardly much smaller if at all!

[Don Kotlos]

8 hours ago, Arikhan said:

That's why I'd like to buy some kind of a "mini preamp" (NO need to record for this device, only preamp needed) - quick handheld shots...

I was just about to suggest the Juicedlink RM222 that offered outstanding performance, but I just found out that the company closed without any explanation. Such a pity. 

These things are built to last so you could consider buying them from ebay if you can find any. 

 

[Don Kotlos]

Another option would be the Beachtek DXA-MICRO PRO. It offers same noise levels as the RM222 and the Sound Devices MixPre-3. 

 

[Arikhan]

Thanks @Don Kotlos...I've already considered the Beachtek (as "preamp only" solution), it's already on my list:

On 14.9.2017 at 11:12 AM, Arikhan said:

[...] and they recommended me, to buy and use the Beachtek DXA-MICRO PRO Audio Adapter. They say, it's best bang for the buck, when recording audio in the camera. [...]

 

[Don Kotlos]

21 minutes ago, Arikhan said:

Thanks @Don Kotlos...I've already considered the Beachtek (as "preamp only" solution), it's already on my list:

I have compared the RM222 with the new DR100mkIII (amps at least equal or better to DR70D https://transom.org/2016/tascam-dr-100mkii-2/) and I found them about the same. Maybe the RM222 was even a tiny bit less noisy. Given that in the previous link the noise levels of the Beachtek Pro is about the same as RM222, if I just needed a compact amp I would get that and not think about it   .

OK I will make your decision a bit more difficult: You can find the RM222 used at ebay for the same price, and that offers dual XLRs and a reduced-level safety channel ...

[Arikhan]

27 minutes ago, Don Kotlos said:

if I just needed a compact amp I would get that and not think about it

This. I'll buy it (Beachtek new), as I need a compact, portable preamp.

Tomorrow I will visit the audio guys and take a closer look (and get a little bit of audio education)  at the DR-70D vs Zoom F4 for my humble RECORDER needs.

As said, if first class / highest level audio needed, it would be better to hire an experienced audio pro...When coming from a photographic background, most people neglect their own audio education and quality awareness - exactly what I did. Time for me to improve audio knowledge and quality....

[IronFilm]

4 hours ago, Don Kotlos said:

I have compared the RM222 with the new DR100mkIII (amps at least equal or better to DR70D https://transom.org/2016/tascam-dr-100mkii-2/) and I found them about the same. Maybe the RM222 was even a tiny bit less noisy. Given that in the previous link the noise levels of the Beachtek Pro is about the same as RM222, if I just needed a compact amp I would get that and not think about it   .

 

 

4 hours ago, Arikhan said:

Tomorrow I will visit the audio guys and take a closer look (and get a little bit of audio education)  at the DR-70D vs Zoom F4 for my humble RECORDER needs.

When the DR70D is also so compact, and these other options don't have a better pre-amp (as Don has just pointed out), then I don't see the point in spending extra money to buy one of these pre amps plus a DR70D.

[Damphousse]

On 9/13/2017 at 0:15 PM, Bioskop.Inc said:

In all this discussion no one has mentioned has even remotely mentioned Marantz, which is a big mistake. People just seem to get a hold of names & think they're the best...

No.  I made my decision after watching reviews comparing several recorders against each other.  Marantz wasn't mentioned so I chose from what was actually on offer.  I'm not really in the habit of purchasing stuff sight unseen.  I made a carefully considered decision that worked for my particular use case.  I will say it again watch BTM_Pix's video.  The gentleman has a great approach.  In the video he actually explicitly says, "There is no BEST recorder".  Not sure how he could have made it any clearer.

[Kisaha]

https://www.musicstore.de/en_GR/EUR/Beachtek-DXA-SLR-/art-REC0007753-000

if you are interested on a Beachtek, maybe this is a good deal from Germany.