Nikon PR nightmares

[mercer]

2 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Nikon does have a bit of a track record of trying to deal with the concept of there only being photographers rather than male and female photographers unfortunately.

Ranging from the well meaning to the full on face palm WTF moments.

The first Nikon that I owned (which was 36 years ago now by the way ) was the EM.

The EM - and the accompanying E series lenses which I still use a couple of today - was actually designed by Nikon as a system for female photographers who, Nikon reasoned, had been put off switching to SLRs because of the cost, the size and the complexity of something like the F2 compared to the compact cameras they were using.

It backfired and the EM wasn't a great success as men were offended by it being dumbed down in terms of features and build quality and women were offended by it being dumbed down full stop.

Ironically, during the lead up to the announcement of the D850 (still being called the D820 at that point), it seems the same thinking is still at play nearly 40 years later with the President of Nikon talking about making a dSLR that 'women would find easier to use'.

https://www.nikonrumors.co/new-nikon-mirrorless-camera-confirmed-again-in-an-interview-with-nikon-president/

Whether this is a deliberately sexist culture or just some cringe Alan Partridge/David Brent style attempts to do the right thing I don't know.

They do have some form for some inexcusable ads that make it hard to make a case for the defence though.

 

As for this last one, if thats how they illustrate 3mp then Lord alone knows what they'd do to represent the 47mp D850.

 

And if we are to believe Nikon's response about them not being available then this shows that not only are there plenty of them but that they are also too busy actually being out there and doing it to take time out to have their egos stroked at PR events 

 

Okay to play the devil's advocate here... the boob enlargement ad is a European ad, correct? And isn't that "cheeky" humor popular in advertisements?

[BTM_Pix]

9 minutes ago, mercer said:

Okay to play the devil's advocate here... the boob enlargement ad is a European ad, correct? And isn't that "cheeky" humor popular in advertisements?

We've moved on a bit since Benny Hill you know!

The comparative aspect of it (body rather than camera) is particularly off in any era to be fair.

Mind you, the promotion from their Italian distributor for the D700 where Dad wants a dSLR and you get a free vacuum cleaner for Mum could've been straight out of the 70s

 

[Mattias Burling]

3 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

 

 

As for this last one, if thats how they illustrate 3mp then Lord alone knows what they'd do to represent the 47mp D850.

 

These are hilarious and sad at the same time. I sometimes teach marketing, PR, etc and these are definitely going in the memory bank to use as bad examples

3 hours ago, maxotics said:

Okay, so Nikon would rather watch a man fall to his death than hire a female photographer

Here are two female Nikon photographers I took with a Sigma dp2s @Mattias Burling

Nice. I was out all day today with the DP3Q, got to love Foveon.

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Look at all those heavy lenses, poor ladies.

Someone get them a Nikon J1

I know right. And they aren't even in pink... how are they then supposed to take pictures?

Her is an image I took of another couple of poor souls. 
And no big man to help them cary and explain what all the buttons does...

[mercer]

47 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

We've moved on a bit since Benny Hill you know!

The comparative aspect of it (body rather than camera) is particularly off in any era to be fair.

Mind you, the promotion from their Italian distributor for the D700 where Dad wants a dSLR and you get a free vacuum cleaner for Mum could've been straight out of the 70s

 

Yeah but wasn't Benny Hill really the apex of British culture...

Sex sells I guess.

The "Falling Man" is a major SNAFU but the lack of female photographers at an event... if we believe what Nikon says... then... 

If not... then hopefully this will help put Nikon into the 21st Century.

The moral here is that Andrew is correct... bad PR week for Nikon. And at least Ed has a new cause.

However, I do think there are probably more important women's rights issues in the world than Nikon's sexist, pink cameras and lack of a female photographer at an event. But yeah bad PR week for Nikon. 

[Laurier]

From the post I saw on facebook from some pro female photographer i know, it feel more like they were personally frustrated to not have been selected within the invited women rather than the whole femi-nazi thing going around. 

I m going to sound sexist here but what are the demographics in term of camera sales ? I m sure this kind of equipment is mostly purchased by mens and that woman change their equipment less often.
From my experience women pro photographer mostly buy what is advised by male photographers, and they focus more about taking pictures with their camera rather than treating their gear acquisition syndrome. But that a very personal opinion based around the female photographers I know.

[Damphousse]

15 minutes ago, Laurier said:

From the post I saw on facebook from some pro female photographer i know, it feel more like they were personally frustrated to not have been selected within the invited women rather than the whole femi-nazi thing going around. 

I m going to sound sexist here but what are the demographics in term of camera sales ? I m sure this kind of equipment is mostly purchased by mens and that woman change their equipment less often.
From my experience women pro photographer mostly buy what is advised by male photographers, and they focus more about taking pictures with their camera rather than treating their gear acquisition syndrome. But that a very personal opinion based around the female photographers I know.

By your logic there should only be doctors in pharmaceutical ads because patients just take what their doctor prescribes them... And that is only if I go along with your premise that there are NO independent thinking women out there.

Even when I have recommended a piece of electronics to my girlfriend she doesn't necessarily just go out and buy it.  Even if she tries it out she can reject my opinion because she forms her own opinion.  I taught her a lot about cameras and now she has interests in photography way different than mine.

[TwoScoops]

Those ads make me want to sell my D750 - mainly just on the cringe-factor vs sexism.

[Arikhan]

7 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Look at all those heavy lenses, poor ladies.

Nope...My mom claimed months ago, beeing tired to carry around "dinosaurus bricks" - aka CanoNikon cameras and lenses...Further saying "I will NOT hire some Sherpas to carry around my gear..."

Now months after using the A6500 and trying out the A9 for a week she says: "Shooting with minuscule and unbalanced (with big super tele primes) plastic crap is not funny..."

She gets more and more a Nikon fan...

BTW: She wants to buy a D5. The Nikon rep came to our house to give us a test device and was very nice & polite. No sexism...When it comes to money, there is no sexism. When it comes to money, even Nikon machos transform to bootlickers...Manufacturers lick everyone's boots for money....

[Mattias Burling]

1 hour ago, Laurier said:

I m going to sound sexist here 

You did.

[Laurier]

1 hour ago, Damphousse said:

By your logic there should only be doctors in pharmaceutical ads because patients just take what their doctor prescribes them... And that is only if I go along with your premise that there are NO independent thinking women out there.

Even when I have recommended a piece of electronics to my girlfriend she doesn't necessarily just go out and buy it.  Even if she tries it out she can reject my opinion because she forms her own opinion.  I taught her a lot about cameras and now she has interests in photography way different than mine.

As I said that what my personal experience is, but I did not said that they all do that, i m sure that Annie Leibovitz knows exactly what she need and what she want.

But I m more speaking about the large volume of entry professionals, because some of those are shouting at nikon as well.
It s like the 5d syndrome, everyone got one because everyone tell it s a great camera, but you see most of them with the kit zoom ( I m not saying it s bad equipment at all) that what people work with because that what they were told to buy.

Also I think that manufacturer endorse either bloggers with a large following group, or the top end of photographers, and there are not a lot of women there, and the one there, they are already endorsed by multiple brands ( most of the time the endorsement is exclusive).

[maxotics]

3 hours ago, Laurier said:

I m going to sound sexist here 

Women are different.  I have three girls.  The middle is close to a "rocket scientist" and recently said, "if Apple doesn't get its shit together I'm moving to PC".  She also dropped her state-of-the-art smartphone and instead of replacing it with the next model bought a model 2 revs back because she said the new phones weren't worth the money.   Like it or not, many men do buy cameras as statements of their power, or whatever you call it.  It makes them feel good.  Makes me feel good.  Just like many women feel good with the right shoes or handbag.  This is what I see; I don't understand all the fuss.

What shouldn't be confused is that women understand what's important about the tech just as much as men.  The only difference is they don't make a fetish of insignificant technical differences.  So @Arikhan 's Mom is moving towards Nikon because (I assume) she focuses on the one thing she wants--stills image quality.  She doesn't care about video, doesn't care about skin-tone "color science".  She just wants the best dynamic range camera she can get that won't die by a single raindrop (like the Sonys).  The ONLY people who knock Nikons are the ones that 1) don't have those priorities and 2) haven't used a Nikon camera.  

Nikon probably also considers this--men talk cameras.  They write blogs.  Show me one big camera GEAR blog-site run by a woman.  Again, it's not that a woman may not be as good as a man to represent Nikon, it's just that they won't talk up the cameras the same way.  So Arikhan's mom tries Sony because of her son (I assume again) but she knows her own mind.  

At the end of the day, I'd wager there are more successful photographers that are women, or just as much as men.  Who Nikon wants to push their gear has nothing to do with that.  In short, women don't push cameras but they do recognize when the camera gives them what they want.  Nikon should include women.  Not because they deserve a spot, but because I ACTUALLY want their take because I do feel they're often more practical.  When my daughter gives her verdict on some piece of tech I don't second-guess it for a nano-second.   Same thing for movies btw.  My youngest has an uncanny ability to predict whether I will like a movie or not just by lookng at the advertisement.  

[Hadaka No Sora]

Andrew, can you please stick to camera reviews?  No one really gives a shit about the so-called "nightmares", except maybe some losers who have nothing but time on their hands.

[tugela]

7 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

These are hilarious and sad at the same time. I sometimes teach marketing, PR, etc and these are definitely going in the memory bank to use as bad examples

Nice. I was out all day today with the DP3Q, got to love Foveon.

I know right. And they aren't even in pink... how are they then supposed to take pictures?

Her is an image I took of another couple of poor souls. 
And no big man to help them cary and explain what all the buttons does...

They are just holding the cameras for the photographers. Sort of like surgeons and nurses....I'll have the 300mm stat!

4 hours ago, Laurier said:

From the post I saw on facebook from some pro female photographer i know, it feel more like they were personally frustrated to not have been selected within the invited women rather than the whole femi-nazi thing going around. 

I m going to sound sexist here but what are the demographics in term of camera sales ? I m sure this kind of equipment is mostly purchased by mens and that woman change their equipment less often.
From my experience women pro photographer mostly buy what is advised by male photographers, and they focus more about taking pictures with their camera rather than treating their gear acquisition syndrome. But that a very personal opinion based around the female photographers I know.

Camera company marketing departments are not stupid. They direct their adds to push the buttons of people who buy the products. You can generally get a good idea of the demographics buying any particular item from the advertising campaigns marketing them.

Marketing people are not interested in social engineering, they are interested in selling and will do whatever they think it takes to achieve that.

[fuzzynormal]

7 hours ago, Hadaka No Sora said:

maybe some losers who have nothing but time on their hands.

Hey, I have time on my hands, and I do like to spend it here.  

[maxotics]

I follow a young woman on Flickr because she liked one of my photos.  She's a young photo enthusiast, not a professional, just a "consumer", somewhere in Europe.    I saw this in my feed so believe Andrew is right in his "nightmare" assessment.

Then she reached out to her friends.  So women may not "market" your camera, but they sure as well will "badmouth" it! HA HA.  

Her text below:

Cheval Tatin

Following

Fuck you, Nikon.

I've always wondered why their cameras had such a bad rap. Then I owned one and kinda understood... but it might as well be terrible PR.

But, hey! It's a good pretext to tag the female photographers we like on this platform!

 

Anne-Sophie Landou

Alison Scarpulla

Britt Grimm

BellaJCosta

Christine Francou

d i a n e p o w e r s

Edith VdW

Esther Hernandez

Jane M

Kathleen Mercado

Katharina Jung

Liz ▴

luci d'inverno

Lauren Withrow

Maria Kappatou

Mo Vidal

Olivia Bee

Rachel Baran

Silvia Grav

Veronika Gilková

 

[Arikhan]

@maxotics

1 hour ago, maxotics said:

So women may not "market" your camera, but they sure as well will "badmouth" it! HA HA.

This.

Militant German feminists would virtually "kill" a Jason Lanier or M. Ortiz just because of their shootings...They would cry "Sexism! Sexism! - You subjects are treated like objects!".

Even as female photographer you could get on the screen of militant feminists calling you a "sexist"...

[Andrew Reid]

On 16/09/2017 at 8:20 AM, Ehetyz said:

Jesus Christ please don't turn this into an identity politics forum. That cancer has destroyed enough platforms already.

On most forums and mainstream sites, you aren't even allowed to discuss issues of sex, race and politics so you're lucky I'm chilled out about it.

If things get divisive and out of hand, only then will I stop it.

[Kisaha]

It is just ignorant to pretend that there are only "camera hardware" issues in this world.

This forum is closer to an "eclectic" community than a "mass general discussion's forum", people are free to pass on such a topic though, but in general from time to time it is good to discuss a different subject matter.

It makes this forum's experience more complete in my opinion.

[Mattias Burling]

56 minutes ago, Arikhan said:

@maxotics

This.

Militant German feminists would virtually "kill" a Jason Lanier or M. Ortiz just because of their shootings...They would cry "Sexism! Sexism! - You subjects are treated like objects!".

Even as female photographer you could get on the screen of militant feminists calling you a "sexist"...

You sound a bit like what we is Sweden call a "vit kränkt man"

[Andrew Reid]

I agree!

And I wish there were more women on this forum. Why aren't there?!