Nikon PR nightmares

[maxotics]

47 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

You sound a bit like what we is Sweden call a "vit kränkt man"

I'm not sure Andrew's server could take the load of a thread dedicated to "white wronged husbands", if that's the right translation?   If he can, sign me up  When I had children I expected them to rebel.  I never imagined that I'd deal with weeks worth of wrath because I forgot to call one of my daughter's 15-year old friends "he" (because the girl identified that way).  Then all the lectures I received from my daughter's cabal about the rights of their gender identity--fluid, transgender, bigender, pangender, etc.  I eventually went  ""vit kränkt man" on them.  That earned me another few months of stink-eye.  

I had a friend who went to visit Japan.  I said, how was it, did they talk to you.  "Only when I did something wrong" he said dryly.  The country is almost as nutty as North Korea--and I don't say that lightly    Decades ago the world has moved past (though hardly a dead issue of course) female rights to gender rights.  And yet Nikon Asia marketing, the very people who should be aware of what's socially acceptable, pick an all-male group to represent a camera?  Is the phrase "what planet are they on?"  an exaggeration?

 

 

[Arikhan]

1 hour ago, Mattias Burling said:

You sound a bit like what we is Sweden call a "vit kränkt man"

Hehe...And your claim sounds as you were caught in the scandalization trap of frustrated editors who always offer solutions for problems people don't have.  (BTW: Next week I'll get 17 years old...so no old man out here...)

My mom works for more than 20 years in the health industry. My grandma - till retired - worked as physician in Bavaria. Every 2-3 years armchair editors wrote about "discrimination" and "sexism" against women in the health indistry. The truth? There was none...Brainwashing at its best...

I understand, that it might be some sexism in our society. BUT it is not a general / major problem without artificially constructed scandalization.

"No scandal? Let's create one..." 

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

And I wish there were more women on this forum. Why aren't there?!

My mom took a look at this thread...She was laughing. Her claim (she could confirm this by sending you a mail from her official real name mail account): "I didn't meet sexism. Neither in the health industry, nor in photography...That might be some singular cases in Central Europe, but I didn't EVER have any problem with sexism. I have more problems with exagerations and hallucinating media editors."

EDIT: She will create an own account @EOSHD in some days to officially express her opinion (mainly photography and filming)...

[mercer]

I just think it's kinda funny that a bunch of guys on a male dominated, video forum pretend to understand and preach the struggles of sexism. And apparently one of the biggest feminine rights issues in the photographic world is the production and marketing of small, colorful cameras... 

[Andrew Reid]

2 minutes ago, mercer said:

I just think it's kinda funny that a bunch of guys on a male dominated, video forum pretend to understand and preach the struggles of sexism. And apparently one of the biggest feminine rights issues in the photographic world is the production and marketing of small, colorful cameras... 

Anyone can see discrimination, you don't need to be the one being discriminated against to notice it.

Nikon ignored a bunch of good female photographers pure and simple.

The guys they picked were probably not even all that good.... Just more eager to be Nikon whores.

Maybe the girls didn't want to be used for marketing as much... as the art matters more to them than status.

[mercer]

25 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Anyone can see discrimination, you don't need to be the one being discriminated against to notice it.

Nikon picked a bunch of men, pure and simple.

They were probably not even all that good.

Just to clarify, I agree the industry should be more open and diverse. All industries should be. But if you look at the photo posted upthread of the photographers chosen... they were all Asian... so where is the outrage that there were no photographers of African descent or Middle Eastern descent, or Caucasian or Latino?

Discrimination is a strong charge that shouldn't be thrown around lightly without 100% proof. But diversity should be encouraged and celebrated as long as it's not just for the sake of diversity.

Just my opinion. 

[Asmundma]

1 hour ago, maxotics said:

I'm not sure Andrew's server could take the load of a thread dedicated to "white wronged husbands", if that's the right translation?   If he can, sign me up  When I had children I expected them to rebel.  I never imagined that I'd deal with weeks worth of wrath because I forgot to call one of my daughter's 15-year old friends "he" (because the girl identified that way).  Then all the lectures I received from my daughter's cabal about the rights of their gender identity--fluid, transgender, bigender, pangender, etc.  I eventually went  ""vit kränkt man" on them.  That earned me another few months of stink-eye.  

I had a friend who went to visit Japan.  I said, how was it, did they talk to you.  "Only when I did something wrong" he said dryly.  The country is almost as nutty as North Korea--and I don't say that lightly    Decades ago the world has moved past (though hardly a dead issue of course) female rights to gender rights.  And yet Nikon Asia marketing, the very people who should be aware of what's socially acceptable, pick an all-male group to represent a camera?  Is the phrase "what planet are they on?"  an exaggeration?

 

 

Your translation is maybe wrong. More like; white men that blames others that they are losers, and voted on the latest president because they belied he will save them. 

[Mattias Burling]

1 hour ago, Arikhan said:

EDIT: She will create an own account @EOSHD in some days to officially express her opinion (mainly photography and filming)...

Wait a minute... Ebrahim is that you?

[Andrew Reid]

Ebraher!

[Arikhan]

36 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Wait a minute... Ebrahim is that you?

Oh, I see...Discrediting people, only because you don't agree with them? Mattias, it's NOT you who define the term "sexism"...I simply communicated my and my moms non-mainstream opinion.

BTW: @Andrew Reid knows about my real identity, so no worries....

In one of your posts you say, you were teaching marketing...that's probably your problem in this case: you simply refuse to understand, that journalism is NOT the right place for emotional investment and activism. Journalism should be impartial (marketing and PR guys don't like this, as they want to manipulate) - a journalist can not be an activist, as - by doing this - he would give up his objectivity and credibility. 

This "article" we talk about should have been called "column" or "opinion"...

@Andrew Reid

Quote

Ebraher!

OMG...I bought things from you and by my mail adress with which I registered here, you should know my website and real identity. But it seems, your culty credo doesn't allow any objectivity. No problem.

[mercer]

9 minutes ago, Arikhan said:

Oh, I see...Discrediting people, only because you don't agree with them? Mattias, it's NOT you who define the term "sexism"...I simply communicated my and my moms non-mainstream opinion.

BTW: @Andrew Reid knows about my real identity, so no worries....

In one of your posts you say, you were teaching marketing...that's probably your problem in this case: you simply refuse to understand, that journalism is NOT the right place for emotional investment and activism. Journalism should be impartial (marketing and PR guys don't like this, as they want to manipulate) - a journalist can not be an activist, as - by doing this - he would give up his objectivity and credibility. 

This "article" we talk about should have been called "column" or "opinion"...

@Andrew Reid

OMG...I bought things from you and by my mail adress with which I registered here, you should know my website and real identity. But it seems, your culty credo doesn't allow any objectivity. No problem.

I believe it was just a joke to lighten the mood. 

[BTM_Pix]

And I think @Andrew Reid response was just a pun on Ebrahim as in its a female so would be Ebra-her rather than Ebra-him 

[Andrew Reid]

Just a pun.

Maybe it was too Ebrasive.

[BTM_Pix]

Its alright, Nikon have put last week's PR clangers behind them by coming up with a whole different one to start this week with.

A Nikon director of R&D has given quite a candid interview in China and come out with this :

"Nikon customer base is very broad, from novice to enthusiasts to prosumer to professional, that’s Nikon’s advantage. Olympus, Sony and Fujifilm can only cover a small part of that. So far there is no professional using their products. So when they develop products, even like retro style, they only try to meet these people and that’s only what they can do. Their customer base is limited anyway so they have limited view in developing products."

And concluded on this really inspiring note :

"...before A9 was introduced, Sony went through a lot failure internally. Nikon has a lot more failure experience than Sony."

https://nikonrumors.com/2017/09/15/new-interview-with-tetsuro-goto-from-nikon-full-frame-is-the-trend-if-nikon-will-go-mirrorless-it-must-be-full-frame.aspx/#ixzz4sy7LQksS

 

[Kisaha]

Oh my.. Nikon is doomed..

[Mattias Burling]

2 hours ago, Arikhan said:

Oh, I see...Discrediting people, only because you don't agree with them? Mattias, it's NOT you who define the term "sexism"...I simply communicated my and my moms non-mainstream opinion.

Sorry if I offended you, it was just a joke.

I just couldn't carry on the debate because I dont believe your moms story to be exactly true.

Im NOT calling her a liar.

Its just that statistically she has been discriminated against several times through out her career. Be it salary, missed opportunities, asked to get coffee, etc.

And saying all is fine because of this one person and ignoring the bigger picture is a major part of the problem.

Nikon did nothing wrong because this one woman in another part of the world doesn't "feel" discriminated against at her workplace.

Again, sorry if my joke struck a nerve.

BTW, if you want to discuss journalism Im in. I even have a degree in it plus years of working experience as a radio reporter.

[Andrew Reid]

2 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Its alright, Nikon have put last week's PR clangers behind them by coming up with a whole different one to start this week with.

A Nikon director of R&D has given quite a candid interview in China and come out with this :

"Nikon customer base is very broad, from novice to enthusiasts to prosumer to professional, that’s Nikon’s advantage. Olympus, Sony and Fujifilm can only cover a small part of that. So far there is no professional using their products. So when they develop products, even like retro style, they only try to meet these people and that’s only what they can do. Their customer base is limited anyway so they have limited view in developing products."

And concluded on this really inspiring note :

"...before A9 was introduced, Sony went through a lot failure internally. Nikon has a lot more failure experience than Sony."

https://nikonrumors.com/2017/09/15/new-interview-with-tetsuro-goto-from-nikon-full-frame-is-the-trend-if-nikon-will-go-mirrorless-it-must-be-full-frame.aspx/#ixzz4sy7LQksS

 

I like Goto's modded Df but if all his criticisms of his own camera are valid then why the hell wasn't he voicing them during development, saying 'the metallic feeling needs to be better' and so on. Nikon seem to do everything by committee. A Steve Jobs-type manager would have taken more control. That's what they need on the product side.

The comments about pros not using Sony, Olympus, Fujifilm are laughable as well all well know! I am sure Mr Goto knows as well, not sure why he feels it's ok to lie about it!

"I have considered many options. Mirrorless cameras can be made thinner body but without the mirror shutter sound and vibration are gone, although they can be simulated electronically. How to integrate these technologies and ideas is one thing, how to execute and to build products is another."

Well get on with it then... or should I say, Goto it.

Vibration simulated electronically? No thanks

What are they waiting for? We need that Nikon mirrorless range. I think they should build a real competitor to their DSLRs with their prosumer mirrorless camera and not try and do a Df with some Leica-mimicing piece of fashion fluff.

[BTM_Pix]

Sony turning up with the A9 but with no lenses for it has let them off the hook I think.

You've got to think that Canon have a full frame mirrorless ready and waiting and would've got it out ASAP if Sony had presented enough of a threat. That would have put Nikon in harm's way as I don't think they are in as advanced a position as that with theirs.

And no wonder they haven't got very far along with it if their R&D director is spending most of his days on Facebook looking for new ways to pimp his Df

[ND64]

in DPR forum I know only 3 or 4 female active users (one of them has the most accurate knowledge about optics), and its the most popular photography website! virtu signaling about equality and diversity solves nothing, they can add few females photogs next time and survive the PR disasters. That's what companies are doing, even in the west. Apple ad contents look super inclusive, liberal and cover almost any minority in the American society, but their work space is noticeably male dominated. No, Apple is not sexist, they hire whoever they think is capable of increasing their profit, it's not their fault that many of them are still male, but they advertise in a way you think reality has changed dramatically! I don't want corporations fool me about social issues. I want higher "real" engagement from women in photography community, and I don't think women necessarily need a woman to tell them they can engage more.   

[Mattias Burling]

18 minutes ago, Eric Calabros said:

, they hire whoever they think is capable of increasing their profit, it's not their fault that many of them are still male,

This sort of talk is simply not true. Not even the part about profit since its proven that a diverse company are more efficient and makes more profit than one that's not.
They hire men because they are men.

On another note,
Why people still deny reality and go of into fantasy land I will never understand. It cant be because of an orange president, it must be some sort of gender fanboy mechanism.

 

[iamoui]

15 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Its just that statistically she has been discriminated against several times through out her career. Be it salary, missed opportunities, asked to get coffee, etc.

Care to share these statistics? You're making pretty large, broad, and definite claims about a woman's life that you don't even know. Has every woman that has ever lived faced discrimination? What about men? Do they not face discrimination, too?

4 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

This sort of talk is simply not true. Not even the part about profit since its proven that a diverse company are more efficient and makes more profit than one that's not.
They hire men because they are men.

On another note,
Why people still deny reality and go of into fantasy land I will never understand. It cant be because of an orange president, it must be some sort of gender fanboy mechanism.

 

You seem very sure of yourself that there is "institutional" sexism or discrimination going on. Again, do you have any evidence? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying sexism and discrimination don't exist. I just think blanketing the whole thing as institutional solves nothing and helps no one. If there are certain, specific instances of discrimination let's fight them because it is wrong. 

I don't think companies as a whole are purposely discriminating against women. If they were, women would not be in high positions, which they are.

It sounds to me like you're the one in fantasy land. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not sure what Trump has to do with anything we're discussing here. Seems like low-hanging fruit. Also, not sure what "gender fanboy mechanism" is. I think the arguments you're receiving are logic and reason based, instead of emotional and virtue signaling.