Best 4k PL cinema camera under $7k?

[rokkimort]

Well, the title says it all. Looking for a USED, 4k PL mount camera, 1.5-1.6x crop sensor. This time my budget is much higher (the the last time I posted similar question) and I could in theory stretch it to 8k too.

What I need:

A ready-to-shoot package (body, monitor, media, power, tripod). I'm buying this for a project, a short, so will only shoot static-ish narrative with a tripod.

Cameras I'm looking at:

Ursa Mini or Ursa Mini pro (4.6k).

Red One MX.

Red Scarlet MX.

Kinefinity Kinemini 4k.

 

Would honestly buy Ursa right now, but am super scared of FPN and noise overall. Never used REDs, but heard that One MX and Scarlet MX both have worse DR then the Ursa and also suffer from noise issues. 

[tupp]

Consider renting.

 

A $7000 budget for a camera package sans lenses seems rather excessive for a short.  I've worked on shorts in which the budget for the entire project was a fraction of that of  your camera (sans lenses) package.

 

Plus, renting gives you more flexibility/recover-ability.  If you rent a camera that has a problem (such as fpn) or if you just don't like it, you can return it and get another camera.

 

Also, for a narrative short, you probably don't even need 4K, which could greatly reduce your budget.

[rokkimort]

Thanks for the advice!

I should clarify that I will keep shooting with whatever I buy in future, and consider this an investment. I live in a place where renting is not easy, and therefore not an option.

So it's really about choosing what to buy:

 

Ursa Mini Pro,

Red One MX,

Red Scarlet MX,

Kinemini 4k,

maybe EVA-1 will fit the budget too?

 

[tupp]

There is nothing like lensrentals.com or borrowlenses.com where you are located?

[Jonesy Jones]

10 hours ago, rokkimort said:

Would honestly buy Ursa right now, but am super scared of FPN and noise overall.

I can tell you for certain that the UMPro does not suffer from FPN, unless you do something overly extreme in post. At first I thought I noticed FPN in the camera monitor. Upon playback it was clean as clean. 

[mercer]

20 minutes ago, Jonesy Jones said:

I can tell you for certain that the UMPro does not suffer from FPN, unless you do something overly extreme in post. At first I thought I noticed FPN in the camera monitor. Upon playback it was clean as clean. 

Do you still have an Ursa Pro?

[Jonesy Jones]

1 minute ago, mercer said:

Do you still have an Ursa Pro?

No. Sold it. I loved the image though. But downscaling to the awesome but less expensive GH5 was the way to go for me. 

[mercer]

29 minutes ago, Jonesy Jones said:

No. Sold it. I loved the image though. But downscaling to the awesome but less expensive GH5 was the way to go for me. 

In your opinion, does the GH5 give you half the quality of the Ursa? More than half? Less than?

[jonpais]

I'm guessing he's missing those built-in ND filters just a little.

[Emanuel]

I'm guessing his rolleyes on Glenn's last entry... :-D

 

[Jonesy Jones]

2 hours ago, mercer said:

In your opinion, does the GH5 give you half the quality of the Ursa? More than half? Less than?

Tough to say. There's all the peripheral stuff you could point to like ND's and IBIS and size and so on. But image quality alone the UMPro obviously wins. But I will say that when I pulled out the GH5 for the first time I thought to myself, this looks nearly identical to how this would look if I were shooting with the UMPro. On further review I'd say the GH5 is 80-90% of the UMPro. My hope is that with filters, correct v log exposure, the right lut and better post, I can mitigate some of that last 10-20%. 

[zerocool22]

19 hours ago, rokkimort said:

Well, the title says it all. Looking for a USED, 4k PL mount camera, 1.5-1.6x crop sensor. This time my budget is much higher (the the last time I posted similar question) and I could in theory stretch it to 8k too.

What I need:

A ready-to-shoot package (body, monitor, media, power, tripod). I'm buying this for a project, a short, so will only shoot static-ish narrative with a tripod.

Cameras I'm looking at:

Ursa Mini or Ursa Mini pro (4.6k).

Red One MX.

Red Scarlet MX.

Kinefinity Kinemini 4k.

 

Would honestly buy Ursa right now, but am super scared of FPN and noise overall. Never used REDs, but heard that One MX and Scarlet MX both have worse DR then the Ursa and also suffer from noise issues. 

The Ursa mini pro is the clear winner over here. If you expose well there is no FPN. Noise of ump seems to be better then a scarlet mx. Last time I shot with a scarlet mx, it had quite some noise. Didn't see that kind of noise on my ump yet. Under 10K the UMP is the best camera out there. I just came back from IBC, and checked out the C200 and the eva1, liked the image from the ump a lot more(couldn't do major tests though).  

[rokkimort]

1 hour ago, zerocool22 said:

The Ursa mini pro is the clear winner over here. If you expose well there is no FPN. Noise of ump seems to be better then a scarlet mx. Last time I shot with a scarlet mx, it had quite some noise. Didn't see that kind of noise on my ump yet. Under 10K the UMP is the best camera out there. I just came back from IBC, and checked out the C200 and the eva1, liked the image from the ump a lot more(couldn't do major tests though).  

This is great insight, thank you!

[Kisaha]

After EVA1 and C200 announcement/release, the UMP seems like the best camera.

No dual pixel touch focus though.

[IronFilm]

I'd forget about 4K, and get yourself a Sony PMW-F3 and save yourself a TONNE OF MONEY in the process! :-D 

As $7K is a stupidly large amount of money to spend on a camera with no commercial return on it. 

[Fritz Pierre]

Completely agree with @IronFilm on this....$2000 yes....but $7000 or 10,000 or 20,000 has to pay for itself....good lenses are so much more important IMO to spend your money on, which is what I invest in long term...also +1 on the F3...a beautiful image for what you spend, if you want a Cine camera specifically, instead of a hybrid. Also the BMD micro camera produces a stunning image...far below the cost of $7000, as do a multitude of other cameras.

[Geoff CB]

URSA pro is perfect if you don't underexpose. However I might consider the GH5 with a great lens set instead. I just wish the GH5 was super35.

[rokkimort]

GH5 produces videos, I don't like the footage I saw online, motion is not cinematic.

I have just sold the Blackmagic Micro, yes it's nice, but I want to have 4k, so f3 also does not work for me.

 

Right now it's down to Ursa Mini Pro vs Red Scarlet MX. If anyone has opinions about these cams – feel free to let me know. 

 

Thanks.

 

[Jonesy Jones]

1 hour ago, rokkimort said:

GH5 produces videos, I don't like the footage I saw online, motion is not cinematic.

I have just sold the Blackmagic Micro, yes it's nice, but I want to have 4k, so f3 also does not work for me.

 

Right now it's down to Ursa Mini Pro vs Red Scarlet MX. If anyone has opinions about these cams – feel free to let me know. 

 

Thanks.

 

I think you're going to hate mx sensor. BM is not perfect either. Having used both I'd go with BM. 

Plenty others would say different. 

As much as I love BM and hate Canon the C200 is attractive if put in the right perspective. Still flawed though and there's no perfect cam. 

[jonpais]

We’re trailblazers for sure. I’ve watched thousands of camera tests online, uploaded one or two lens comparisons and field tests myself shot with a handful of Lumix cameras, and not once have I heard anyone mention ‘cinematic motion’. I’ve never seen it come up in a single camera review either. Respected DPs have been using the GH* cameras for years now and I can’t recall any of them complaining about ‘motion cadence’. Likewise during the Zacuto shootout of 2012, where the lowly GH2 was up against the likes of the Arri Alexa, the Red Epic and the Sony F65. To the best of my knowledge, it’s not something that’s ever appeared in the literature of the leading camera manufacturers. The human ear is more sensitive to changes in audio frequency, but even though I’ve delivered videos shot at 23.976 as 24p, I’ve never come across anyone who’s even noticed.