How long should my episodic youtube series be?

[tomekk]

On 01/10/2017 at 4:58 AM, rdouthit said:

If you want to be successful on YouTube you need to have a regular, unbroken, never-ending schedule of content that retains viewers more than other videos in the genre. That's all the algorithm cares about (currently). If you want to just post for fun, that's fine. But don't expect to make a dime or get more than 1000 views unless you tailor your content to the needs of the algorithm. (I've been a YouTube partner since 2006) If you post a single series and that's it, it will just sit there and be buried by the algorithm. Nobody but your friends and parents will ever see it.

Out of curiosity, what's currently considered optimal for how often you should post videos? Does the frequency change depending on how long videos are? 

[kaylee]

10 hours ago, Zak Forsman said:

haha! yeah. i'd say you can drop the "web". the internet as a platform for content is so ubiquitous now that it doesn't need its own category. if it were me, i'd get in the mindset of referring to it as "an original series" or something like that. 

for sure

@Zak Forsman if you dont mind me asking, what do you think about all this?? ur so smart pls tell me

im still thinking ~9 (+/-) 5 min episodes

12 hours ago, Liam said:

and not at all because you think it'll be good

to the contrary, i think that it HAS to be good to be worth doing – the cream rises to the top sort of thing. otherwise its a complete waste of time and effort to me personally. 

and i like spooky shows, i mean id be happy if netflix said 'Make this into a full blown series'. itd be fun

12 hours ago, Liam said:

but if you have something you're more passionate about, that you can still do with your resources

i dont!!! thats the entire point of this project. i need $250k for my feature and i want to release it as part of an art show that has other... expenses. AND...

lmao i shouldve mentioned this: i need an actual example of something GOOD that ive directed, that any normal person could look at and say 'Oh ok i can see how this person could direct a movie'. not my weird art videos – ppl like those but *I* wouldnt give me money for a feature based on those... i need something legit

12 hours ago, Liam said:

People actually do want something unique

now THATS a whole other discussion lol... maybe ill comment on that after i figure out how long to make this frickin thing im trynna write... ?

AAAAAND lastly, @Liam i appreciate the spirit of your comments, but keep in mind that within my fine art practice, i can do literally whatever i want. THATS where my first feature that im trynna make exists, but i ALSO want to direct commercial stuff... like The Sandman movies (its a comic). i have a whole plan lol theyll make a billion 

[Zak Forsman]

12 minutes ago, kaylee said:

 

@Zak Forsman if you dont mind me asking, what do you think about all this?? ur so smart pls tell me

im still thinking ~9 (+/-) 5 min episodes

2

I think that's a great target. the lower the barrier to watching, the better. when it comes to advice like this, I almost always say the same thing: look at your own viewing habits. and i know zak forsman, when he hits 'play' on youtube, and sees the run time is over 10 minutes, he's likely to stop, thinking he'll watch later, but of course never does.

[rdouthit]

8 hours ago, tomekk said:

Out of curiosity, what's currently considered optimal for how often you should post videos? Does the frequency change depending on how long videos are? 

Since the algorithm is secret, and it was updated recently, it's impossible to know exactly the answer to this. However, if I was personally launching a new channel I wouldn't even consider less than two new uploads a week, each with a runtime of no less than 3.5 minutes. 

[IronFilm]

11 hours ago, tugela said:

No.

The effort to produce a good 2hr long episode means you might as well make a feature film instead!!

[kaylee]

7 hours ago, Zak Forsman said:

I think that's a great target. the lower the barrier to watching, the better. when it comes to advice like this, I almost always say the same thing: look at your own viewing habits. and i know zak forsman, when he hits 'play' on youtube, and sees the run time is over 10 minutes, he's likely to stop, thinking he'll watch later, but of course never does.

this is my exact thinking. tysm zak ?

[tugela]

4 hours ago, IronFilm said:

The effort to produce a good 2hr long episode means you might as well make a feature film instead!!

It depends what the subject matter is. But, if you are making money off it, you want it to run as long as possible without losing the viewer. It depends on what you are shooting of course and how entertaining you are. And you need to produce real content, not the same thing going on forever.  Probably not two hours, but certainly 30 minutes a week is entirely doable if you are doing this full time and should be a minimum target.

[kaylee]

UPDATE: look at me i wrote the first episode!! its a rough draft but if u wanna read it pm me, its only 4 1/2 pages! (@Zak Forsman ?)

[Mattias Burling]

Most TV-shows aren't even 30min. 30min is an eternity. 2h... nah.

Average length people watch on youtube is about 4 minutes no matter the length of the content.

[Cinegain]

They aren't? I think only like The Big Bang Theory is like 20 mins, but otherwise they're mostly 40-50mins. Atleast the stuff I watch. Don't really watch web series. YouTube used to be full of comedy or horror skits (even interactive ones with different storylines depending on the viewer's choices), but these days it seems everyone wants their 5 mins of fame doing vlogging or dumb ass pranks and whatnot.

I quite like Black Mirror and now Electric Dreams has come out. Maybe some of you are familliar with Freddie Wong, aka freddiew on YouTube, who's started RocketJump Film School? They made a Hulu exclusive series called Dimension 404, which kinda follows the form of the earlier two mentioned before as well. Really digg that genre, usually showcasing social behaviour in an increasingly digitalizing world and it allows the creators not to be stuck with a single story, they can create different worlds and angles altogether. For me as a viewer personally, it's a nice break from binge-watching missed episodes, because each story is self-contained. Of course, their productions are pretty much up there... but I think watching these might give you some inspiration.

[Mattias Burling]

"Like" The big bang theory includes the majority of shows on TV. 

But it doesn't matter, my point is that making a show as long as possible is bad advice. 2 hours is also bad advice. And calling 30min a minimum... is at least in my experience as a producer of all kinds of media also not a good rule to follow.

Imo, A product is done when there is nothing left to take out. Not the other way around.

[Julien416]

Youtube web series is a genre in itself. I understand it's a new thing in the world we're living here. Is it the best way to come out as a potential feature film director ? I don't know.

Even now, in my country - France - the best way to become a film director is still to direct some short films - usually 10 to 20 minutes long - and attend film festivals while hoping to get noticed. You can also promote your work on social network obviously. But your short film has only one goal, show the world you can tell a compelling story with the unique tools of cinema and grab the attention of your audience for longer than a 4 minutes period...

Being a youtuber is nice and everything, but I did a little thing a few years ago with youtubers. They all had a few millions followers, yet I wasn't particularly impressed with their hability to tell a story as film makers (they're very talented nonetheless). 

If you're wondering what I am trying to say, it's just that everybody should try to master the art of film making before dreaming of castles in Spain (on YouTube). Shoot something and post it on YouTube, if it's 10 minutes - but good - it will get noticed.

I know a lot of film directors wannabe who keeps telling me they never got their chance and that they could have been huge, make blockbusters if only, etc. The sad truth is that they were not good enough. In the business of film directing and writing, talent never gets unnoticed, I can tell you that from experience.

[Cinegain]

1 hour ago, Mattias Burling said:

"Like" The big bang theory includes the majority of shows on TV. 

But it doesn't matter, my point is that making a show as long as possible is bad advice. 2 hours is also bad advice. And calling 30min a minimum... is at least in my experience as a producer of all kinds of media also not a good rule to follow.

Imo, A product is done when there is nothing left to take out. Not the other way around.

Well, no, that's the only single example I could think of, because like I said, everything else is I watch is longer (is there even any Amazon Prime or Netflix exclusive show with such short episodes? Yeah, yeah, I know these aren't 'tv shows' as they're not on tellie, but same for anything Marvel or DC Universe or generally stuff that's not comedy from like networks such as HBO (Game of Thrones), USA (Suits), The CW (Arrow), etc). And speaking of long is bad... they should've stopped that show a long time ago already anyways. But people love a cashcow, that's why movies get so many terrible sequels. Where they put quantity over quality. Guess there's a reason for 'biz' taking up a considerable part of 'showbiz'.

But yeah, ultimately what you're saying after is spot on.

Just, unless you're brilliant, 4 or 5 minutes doesn't get you much invested in any of it.

[Mattias Burling]

I think you misread the first part of my post. I never commented on what you watch. My comments was on the average length of TV shows

Sitcoms, reality, news, most of it is sub 30min and almost nothing is over 2 hours.

1 hour shows like Rome etc isnt norm.

Thats all I meant.

[kaylee]

help 911 i need u guys again

i wrote a first 4 1/2 page episode and ive gotten some good feedback. a friend keeps saying that a total of, say 9 episodes is way too long, too hard, and itd prolly be just as effective and way easier boiled down to say 15 min. (lights out is 2:42 and it seemed to work out p well)

SOUNDS LIKE IT MAKES SENSE TO ME??? idek anymore lol

hmmm...

[jcs]

13 minutes ago, kaylee said:

help 911 i need u guys again

i wrote a first 4 1/2 page episode and ive gotten some good feedback. a friend keeps saying that a total of, say 9 episodes is way too long, too hard, and itd prolly be just as effective and way easier boiled down to say 15 min. (lights out is 2:42 and it seemed to work out p well)

SOUNDS LIKE IT MAKES SENSE TO ME??? idek anymore lol

hmmm...

Why not shoot something around 1 minute first? Then show it for feedback...

[Thomas Hill]

29 minutes ago, kaylee said:

help 911 i need u guys again

i wrote a first 4 1/2 page episode and ive gotten some good feedback. a friend keeps saying that a total of, say 9 episodes is way too long, too hard, and itd prolly be just as effective and way easier boiled down to say 15 min. (lights out is 2:42 and it seemed to work out p well)

SOUNDS LIKE IT MAKES SENSE TO ME??? idek anymore lol

hmmm...

It all depends on the story. Once you have it as tight as possible, is it a 30-40 minute story or is it a 15 minute story?

[Liam]

4 minutes ago, kaylee said:

help 911 i need u guys again

i wrote a first 4 1/2 page episode and ive gotten some good feedback. a friend keeps saying that a total of, say 9 episodes is way too long, too hard, and itd prolly be just as effective and way easier boiled down to say 15 min. (lights out is 2:42 and it seemed to work out p well)

SOUNDS LIKE IT MAKES SENSE TO ME??? idek anymore lol

hmmm...

Heyy. I get overwhelmed by this stuff all the time.. There are obviously infinite options for every story - sometimes when I consider how to incorporate feedback I just shut down.

It might not be great just to shorten it, if you still keep the scenes.. same setup time, costumes, actors. So if you can imagine the story happening in one day, with like 4 characters max, modern day, handheld camera aesthetic(?), that might be more helpful to simplify than, say, trying to cut down an already short dialogue scene

Do you have a full outline of your original plan for it already? That could help to keep focus on what you liked about the idea in the first place

Though, having read your episode, I may have some advice for how to shorten it. I can go to your PM if you'd prefer. But I don't want to inject my own opinions too much either, since I like what you're doing.

[kaylee]

2 hours ago, Thomas Hill said:

It all depends on the story. Once you have it as tight as possible, is it a 30-40 minute story or is it a 15 minute story?

it can be whatever

i dont believe in doing any kind of screenwriting unless i know how long somethings supposed to be lol. i understand the spirit of what youre saying, but thats the feature i wrote that i love that i cant afford to make rn, im not cutting shit out of that. ppl will like it, itll find an audience, im confident. but i have to actually *make* something first that shows competency, thats what this project is

2 hours ago, Liam said:

It might not be great just to shorten it, if you still keep the scenes.. same setup time, costumes, actors. So if you can imagine the story happening in one day, with like 4 characters max, modern day, handheld camera aesthetic(?), that might be more helpful

right exactly

2 hours ago, Liam said:

Do you have a full outline of your original plan for it already? That could help to keep focus on what you liked about the idea in the first place

yes i do, good point. ill be thinking this over

ykno what writers do when the going gets tough? #bubble bath

[kaylee]

UPDATE: okay ive got it!! (that was a long bath)

im basically gonna make a pilot, like 14 min long, divided into 3 parts, so theyre 4:56ish (under 5 min episodes)

thereby acknowledging all the folks on this board and irl who have said "45 min?!? you might as well make a feature!!!" as well as peeps who have wisely stated "Keep the episodes short, thats what I watch"

netflix, here i come~!

p.s. been working on show themes. mind u this is spooky and supernatural. thinking about using this as a background track